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Question: do you care about PED's?


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Most definitely!

I'm with you.
If I'm against it in one sport I'm against it in all. You can't condone lance Armstrong and then understand it when an NFL player uses it to recover from injury. sure all Lance was doing was to recover quicker for the next days stage.

I'm worried about the side affects in later life for players in the league. I would imagine its pretty "rampant" in the NFL and to be honest it, it doesn't sit easy with me.

Also i must say i am shocked at the double standards of ESPN.
There was plenty of Ball washing for Armstrong on ESPN last October. spouting crap aobut his vO2 max readings. Although it was Skip Bayless and he knows nothing about anything really.
 
I have no issue with physician monitored/administered substances to aid recovery like HGH. These guys have short careers, they should be able to recover as quickly as possible.
 
I'm with you.
If I'm against it in one sport I'm against it in all. You can't condone lance Armstrong and then understand it when an NFL player uses it to recover from injury. sure all Lance was doing was to recover quicker for the next days stage...

You are right, but in my opinion, cycling is as much about the endurance and recovery between the stages as it is about your performance during the stage. To cheat that is the equivalent of an offensive lineman wearing brass knuckles.
Football players need to play with pain…but cheating to recover from serious injuries (hGH) is more about survival than performance enhancement.
Having said that, in the ideal world, none of these guys would take anything illegal and sports would be the purest form of competition.
 
I'm with you.
If I'm against it in one sport I'm against it in all. You can't condone lance Armstrong and then understand it when an NFL player uses it to recover from injury. sure all Lance was doing was to recover quicker for the next days stage.

I'm worried about the side affects in later life for players in the league. I would imagine its pretty "rampant" in the NFL and to be honest it, it doesn't sit easy with me.

There was plenty of Ball washing for Armstrong on ESPN last October. spouting crap aobut his vO2 max readings. Although it was Skip Bayless and he knows nothing about anything really.

condoning and understanding are not opposites.

i say no to ped's. slow these guys down and maybe limit concussions and other injuries. where was all the understanding and praise at espn when rodney admitted to hgh ? they're the real hypocrites.
 
But what Lance was taking isn't what football players take. You can't compare PEDs across sports at all.

HGH can be used for recovery. Erythropoietin cannot.
 
To answer the Op, no. However, I want it to be a level playing field. I hate the idea of those who know they are gaining advantage. I wish they will just let them juice till their neck disappear.
 
condoning and understanding are not opposites.

i say no to ped's. slow these guys down and maybe limit concussions and other injuries. where was all the understanding and praise at espn when rodney admitted to hgh ? they're the real hypocrites.

Very true. This is an important dialogue to have, but were it any other NFL athlete besides their darling the murderer, it would be pitchforks out.
 
I'm not against them if they are used to help recover from injury and it's monitored by a team doctor.

But we can't have a whole league of doped up players. How do you know who the best natural players are, the ones who work hard to get better, or the ones who are using PED's to be better than what they are? I wouldn't want that.
 
I'm not against them if they are used to help recover from injury and it's monitored by a team doctor.

But we can't have a whole league of doped up players. How do you know who the best natural players are, the ones who work hard to get better, or the ones who are using PED's to be better than what they are? I wouldn't want that.

More importantly you don't want kids getting on this stuff in HS/college.

It's tacit acceptance really
 
But what Lance was taking isn't what football players take. You can't compare PEDs across sports at all.

HGH can be used for recovery. Erythropoietin cannot.

Honest question.. Why isn't HGH allowed in injury treatment if signed off by a physician.
 
I care, but I don't CARE. Maybe I'm jaded, maybe as I've aged I live less vicariously through professional athletes than I did years ago, but I just can't drum up any outrage. I'd like the playing field to be level, but if it's not I'm not putting a lot of deep thought into it.

Regards,
Chris
 
No. The PED concern is largely media driven. Sports media is full of guys that secretly envy the guys they cover because they are everything they are not--rich, attractive, and talented. They like nothing better than to "expose" the athletes for being cheaters, bad people, whatever. That Congress got involved with this is a national embarrassment.

The rest of your post is meh but the last sentence made me like it. I could really go a lot further about Congress but I'll leave it there so that mods don't have to move that thread to The Dump (my proposed name for the Political forum).
 
For me there's a clear difference between PEDs in baseball and in football.

In baseball something as simple as hitting he ball 10 feet further can make the difference between an average career or a hall of fame career. Taking PEDs to gain that 10 feet bothers me.

Football however is truly a team sport - if someone comes back sooner from injury that doesn't bother me. Nor does the prospect of a player using steroids etc. it's the execution, teamwork and strategy that make the difference in football.

I guess i just don't see PEDs as altering the outcome of games and careers quite the same way in football as in baseball.
 
I don't care about it in the nfl, it's pretty clear to see that the sport is rife with it. Size and strength are key attributes so ped and nfl are made for each other. Peds are just a "pro-grade" supplement in a supplement-crazy country.
 
Some day in the future I can picture two young kids trading MLB cards and one kid will demand that he get three Mickey Mantles for one Raphael Palmero, and he'll get it. That is what bothers me the most about PEDs in MLB, and it's part of the reason why I dumped the game. The NFL may not be that far behind.

Try and imagine what it would have been like had it been a Patriots player that was found to be dirty as they approached the SB. The Faulkheads would have had a lot more to say then.
 
if a player is hurt enough to go on IR, I think HGH should be ok to use while rehabbing.
 
With this Ray Lewis and A-rod news, I am curious: do you really care? It's my belief that PED's are rampant at the highest level of all pro sports. Rampant. I believe most fans want their football players bigger than life, and could care less if they are dirty. I also believe there's a double standard when it comes to other sports. Perhaps that is driven by the sports writers, I don't know. IMO there's more interest in Lance Armstrong and the baseball players than football, basketball, or even golf.

I think sports are dirty, it's economically driven, and fans for the most part don't care.

I care. Only so far as performance enhancing. For injury related causes, I think they (the league) ought to back off and the player/team/league to allow the taking of meds to rehab injured players. If the league would do that I would suggest that they could increase the penalties for performance related violations without a lot of angst from the union. Define a strict set of rules and have someone (league and union) approve and monitor the administration of rehab meds. Makes too much sense for either the league and union to do such a thing though. I hate organized stupidity.
 
Yeah I care about them. I don't like the idea of it being an arms race to see who can get the absolute most out of biochemistry.

I care about PED use because I don't like being lied to, and I consider the under the table behavior of PED usage, as well as the all out denial of any usage to be dishonest at best (except in exceedingly rare cases).

I don't like PED's because they tend to create a "guilty until proven innocent" atmosphere, by the way the test for innocence is often done (in the USA) in a way negotiated by a players union to be insufficient to catch a sophisticated user.

I also do agree that some of the things that are considered PED's could be reconsidered. I think it's appropriate to wonder why a cortisone shot or a bunch of painkillers are ok, but some HGH isn't. USC doctors (allegedly) screwed with Armstead's future through their use of toradol... yet he can still have it via NEP team docs in the NFL.
 
For me there's a clear difference between PEDs in baseball and in football.

In baseball something as simple as hitting he ball 10 feet further can make the difference between an average career or a hall of fame career. Taking PEDs to gain that 10 feet bothers me.

Football however is truly a team sport - if someone comes back sooner from injury that doesn't bother me. Nor does the prospect of a player using steroids etc. it's the execution, teamwork and strategy that make the difference in football.

I guess i just don't see PEDs as altering the outcome of games and careers quite the same way in football as in baseball.

I get what you're saying but that's actually why it's worse in Football. Baseball has always been stats focused and individual talent driven. That is why for the purist steroids represent being butt hurt. Still the argument I would make is baseline skill in baseball only tends to seperate the very good from the great, many of whom would have still been great absent steroids. Steroids simply offered them an opportunity to obliterate stats and reap rewards they might otherwise have not. Not so much in football (aside from QB's and fantasy where individual stats are becoming more of a focus) where size, speed, strength, endurance, durability can mask lack of sheer talent. In baseball those matter less than the ability to say locate the ball or contact it or field it. In football if you're enough of a measurables specimen teams and even media and fans will invest in you. And if you're coachable teams will scheme to optimize whatever underlying talent you might have.

I think since the late 80's PEDs have altered not only the outcome of games but it's landscape and lots of players and eventually the league are now facing paying the price for that altered landscape. PED's ruined wrestling as a sport and turned it into a sideshow. A decade ago football fans hung their hat on testing and mocked baseball and it's fans for not being ahead of the curve. Then they found out football isn't ahead of it either. Sadly football fans have over the course of the same time frame increasingly become action addicted entertainment fans with the encouragement of players, teams, owners and the sports media.

The latest talk is about football eventually becoming a waiver sport with a more limited pool from which to draw consisting mainly of guys willing to assume the risk and pay the price for a shot at the kind of money they can't approach elsewhere.

Fans IMO bear a great deal of responsibility in all of this because they could not muster or maintain the ire that would have put a stop to it. Their own addiction resulted in increasing rationalization that it was no big deal and nothing they should care about because they signed up to be increasingly entertained by an on field product and why should they care by what means individuals chose to fulfill their desires. Kind of like not wanting to know where your food supply comes from lest that limit your enjoyment while consuming it

We've also become a society that waxes poetic about personal responsibility while railing at the concept of personal consequence. Not to mention a litigious one that jumps at the chance to blame others for misleading us when a decision we make goes wrong.

If it means my team wins why should I care if the guys wearing it's uniform are thugs or cheaters on or off the field. Winning is all that matters because it makes me feel like a smart, even superior consumer by association. Sometimes we can see that minset in others and rail against it. The Penn State reaction would be an example. But it's easier to simply dismiss it lest we too appear to be homers or hypocrits. Because at the end of the day it's all about us and how we want to be perceived.
 
Yeah I care about them. I don't like the idea of it being an arms race to see who can get the absolute most out of biochemistry.

I care about PED use because I don't like being lied to, and I consider the under the table behavior of PED usage, as well as the all out denial of any usage to be dishonest at best (except in exceedingly rare cases).

I don't like PED's because they tend to create a "guilty until proven innocent" atmosphere, by the way the test for innocence is often done (in the USA) in a way negotiated by a players union to be insufficient to catch a sophisticated user.

I also do agree that some of the things that are considered PED's could be reconsidered. I think it's appropriate to wonder why a cortisone shot or a bunch of painkillers are ok, but some HGH isn't. USC doctors (allegedly) screwed with Armstead's future through their use of toradol... yet he can still have it via NEP team docs in the NFL.

Cortisone is an approved treatment for any number of inflammatory conditions. Toradol is a super NSAID pain reliever, and like advil all of them have potentially damaging side effects particularly if overused or abused in pain management. That is why the NFL is debating eliminating it's use and presently requiring players to sign a waiver to receive it.

HgH is only FDA approved for medical use in limited cases involving growth disorders in children and in adults for a handful of diseases including muscle wasting disorders.

The abuse of any of these medications can cause life threatening side effects. Often we don't even begin to learn of them until the medication has been in widespread use for 20+ years. In the case of HgH it's only been around for 25 years and in such limited use that can be monitored that no one knows what routinely taking it just because may result in.
 
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