Willie McGinest on what ails the Pats

[Triumph]

"The adjustment Baltimore made at halftime was to attack the weakness of the Patriots was to attack the passing game," McGinest stated. "They were great at turning the ball over. Great at points per game. Good red-zone defense. But at some point, if your offense isn't scoring 35, 40 points a game and you're giving up big plays in the passing game against a good offense that has a dominant defense, it's gonna be tough to win games."

The sieve of a NE pass defense is why NE cant get over the hump. How many times have you seen the camera pan to Brady late in the game as the pass defense is getting smoked?

"We took everything personal and we had pride," he added. "It's a different time. That's just how we were. Even the young guys that came in adapted that from us. Like the Seymours, the Vince Wilforks or some of these other guys that were there. The Asante Samuels. When Rodney came in, we already had Ty Law with that attitude. We had Lawyer Milloy. We had guys that had that mentality. We just added more guys to it. Vrabel was another guy."

This defense needs Ed Reed or somebody with some cajones.

McGinest: Patriots defense needs more attitude

 

[TruthSeeker]

There is no denying what Willie is saying, there is no fear factor playing against the Pat's D. It sucks, but he's right, it's the truth. Nobody comes up big in big games, and if the offense is off (against Balt this year, SB 42 and SB 46 against the Giants), we are ******* toast.

 

[DaBronxPats14]

The sieve of a NE pass defense is why NE cant get over the hump. How many times have you seen the camera pan to Brady late in the game as the pass defense is getting smoked?



This defense needs Ed Reed or somebody with some cajones.

McGinest: Patriots defense needs more attitude

YUP and..........
Someone To CATCH'da @#$%'n BALL to win a Superbowl
Someone to BREAK UP a CRUCIAL PASS to win a Superbowl
EVERYONE STAYING HEALTHY goin into a Superbowl!

Then Pats WILL WIN A SUPERBOWL!

 

[Deus Irae]

The sieve of a NE pass defense is why NE cant get over the hump. How many times have you seen the camera pan to Brady late in the game as the pass defense is getting smoked?



This defense needs Ed Reed or somebody with some cajones.

McGinest: Patriots defense needs more attitude

Having Talib go down changed the entire complexion of the game. The Patriots didn't need Ed Reed. The Patriots needed their CB1 to be on the field instead of on the sidelines.

 

[SVN]

Will I do agree about having to take it personal.Our defensive leaders are passive right now . If rodney was in that locker room, no rex ryan,suggs or pollard or anyone would say crap about the team and not get a response. I know BB wants it to keep quiet but sometimes a response from your defensive leader can galvanize the team.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

YUP and..........
Someone To CATCH'da @#$%'n BALL to win a Superbowl
Someone to BREAK UP a CRUCIAL PASS to win a Superbowl
EVERYONE STAYING HEALTHY goin into a Superbowl!

Then Pats WILL WIN A SUPERBOWL!

I like Willie and he has a point. But many of those guys were still here in 2007 and it didn't do the trick.

I think part of the problem since then is this has become a young team where guys can't stand up to Bill, let alone opponent. On a veteran team Bill often listened to his core defensive players. And they weren't shy about approaching or challenging him. I doubt any of these guys are at a point yet where they can walk over to him and say jeezus Bill, wtf... They've been conditioned to do as they are told. The captains are supposed to handle that kind of back and forth. Ours are the jovial Vince Wilfork, Bill's adopted son Jerrod and the younger McCourty twin who is now classified as a DB.

 

[Nehalem]

Was it the defense that made it so the offense only scored 13 points?

Maybe it if the offense didn't turn the ball over at midfield the defense wouldn't have allowed 28 points?

 

[borg]

Is Willie aware the offense scored one TD? Or zero points after half time.
Is Willie aware the offense made it into the red zone only 3 times netting 1 TD despite 54 pass attempts
Is Willie aware the NE offense ran 82 plays (a huge number) to get those 13 points.
Small ball came up small, Willie.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Having Talib go down changed the entire complexion of the game. The Patriots didn't need Ed Reed. The Patriots needed their CB1 to be on the field instead of on the sidelines.

I'm not so sure it's that cut and dried. The 2004 Patriots lost Ty Law and that didn't stop them. Probably because they had Rodney Harrison and the backerhood and a talented front. There is some talent on this defense, but it's young and insufficient and it has to get past relying on any one player as a crutch. That mentality gets you nowhere.

 

[condon84]

Agree with Willie's assessment on the defense not having pride. It was so evident when we played the Jets in the playoffs in 2010, with the Jets completely disrespecting the team and then dominating our team at home.

 

[patsfan13]

The D was what the 2nd youngest in the league, not many guys are 'leaders' when they are young.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Is Willie aware the offense scored one TD? Or zero points after half time.
Is Willie aware the offense made it into the red zone only 3 times netting 1 TD despite 54 pass attempts
Is Willie aware the NE offense ran 82 plays (a huge number) to get those 13 points.
Small ball came up small, Willie.

He's aware of that. He played behind a small ball offense that didn't always score a ton of points. On a defense that generally made it a point to give up a least a few less.

 

[Deus Irae]

I'm not so sure it's that cut and dried. The 2004 Patriots lost Ty Law and that didn't stop them. Probably because they had Rodney Harrison and the backerhood and a talented front. There is some talent on this defense, but it's young and insufficient and it has to get past relying on any one player as a crutch. That mentality gets you nowhere.

We saw the game change as the Patriots were no longer able to cover Boldin once Talib was out. It took time for the Ravens to exploit it, but it was an obvious adjustment. It was pretty cut and dried, IMO, but I think you may be thinking that I was raising a bigger point than I was. My point was game specific. I don't think there's one specific thing that ails the Patriots. I think multiple smaller things combine to become huge at some point in the playoffs.

 

[borg]

He's aware of that. He played behind a small ball offense that didn't always score a ton of points. On a defense that generally made it a point to give up a least a few less.

David Patten....YPC....14 ('01), 13 ('03), 18 ('04)
David Givens....YPC....15 ('03), 15 ('04)
Deion Branch... YPC....14 )'03), 13 ('04)
Troy Brown.... 11 YPC in 3 SB years


Welker....10-12 YPC as a Pat
Lloyd....12 YPC
Branch...9.1 this year
AHern...9.5 this year
Gronk.....14.4 this year

Not really apples to apples...different era, different philosophy etc....but both Givens and Patten offered Brady a viable mid range target vs today's starting pair. Are those extra 3 yds/catch even more impressive considering how WRs were mugged back in the day?

The most interesting newly discovered fact in this exercise is that Brady average 12.8 YPC in 2004 but only 12.1 YPC on that great Moss team of '07. I will credit NE's superior running game in '04 for opening up the field and allowing Patten to roam for 18 YPC that year. Brady lived off play action in '04...but now it gets lost in the perpetual shot gun offense.
Build up the line, establish the running game as a feature, not a residual affect. Then work the play action. If BB won't add a deep threat, at least slow the LBs down before they flood the secondary (sorry for going off course)

 

[DaBronxPats14]

Having Talib go down changed the entire complexion of the game. The Patriots didn't need Ed Reed. The Patriots needed their CB1 to be on the field instead of on the sidelines.

Deus well said/typed!
I was saying this last couple of years about our DBs let alone Non Pass Rush cost us a couple of superbowls. All Talib did when he came over was cover up holes we always had on DEF. I had said in other posts that we are "One Talib Injury Away" from seein our Same'ole Same'ole DBs self destruct. YES Talib made us that much better and made our DBs much better but it's pathetic when we have to rely on one player to determine an outcome of a game and BIGGEST ONES on stage.

 

[BB4PRez]

We saw the game change as the Patriots were no longer able to cover Boldin once Talib was out. It took time for the Ravens to exploit it, but it was an obvious adjustment. It was pretty cut and dried, IMO, but I think you may be thinking that I was raising a bigger point than I was. My point was game specific. I don't think there's one specific thing that ails the Patriots. I think multiple smaller things combine to become huge at some point in the playoffs.

I agree with the Talib analysis. Pats were not the same after he went down and no one could effectively cover Bolden. This was certainly a large factor in the loss. But that was not the only problem and the fact that they could not put any points on the board in the second half was also a significant problem.

 

[DaBronxPats14]

I like Willie and he has a point. But many of those guys were still here in 2007 and it didn't do the trick.

I think part of the problem since then is this has become a young team where guys can't stand up to Bill, let alone opponent. On a veteran team Bill often listened to his core defensive players. And they weren't shy about approaching or challenging him. I doubt any of these guys are at a point yet where they can walk over to him and say jeezus Bill, wtf... They've been conditioned to do as they are told. The captains are supposed to handle that kind of back and forth. Ours are the jovial Vince Wilfork, Bill's adopted son Jerrod and the younger McCourty twin who is now classified as a DB.

Mo I can see your point, these guys aren't goin into BB's office kickin their feet up on his desk and tellin Bill this or that would be good or bad play or player in a different spot etc Just look at Brady every time he says Coach wants us to, Bill told us to......and we just go out and do what he wants from us then that just sums it up right there.

 

[DaBronxPats14]

I agree with the Talib analysis. Pats were not the same after he went down and no one could effectively cover Bolden. This was certainly a large factor in the loss. But that was not the only problem and the fact that they could not put any points on the board was a problem.

No Talib absense was not entirely why Pats lost or couldn't put up pts to score more to win but Deus nailed it, This game is all about momentum and belief and when Talib went out you can see a change for worse on our D and not only that you think that Brady doesn't say OH NO here we go again with our D? He's not goning say it but how many times has he put up scores only to see other teams march down with ease and score?

 

[PittPatriot]

Talib going down certainly shifted things to the point where the secondary could only stop the deep bomb, leaving Boldin to run free.
However, I blame the offense. No way you can get an pass scoring only 13 points. For all of us who call P. Manning a choker for not coming through in the playoffs with "record setting regular season numbers" - this was a bigger choke job.
At the end of the day, our OL cannot run when it needs to. It was embarrassing how B'More owned the LOS against us. Where the heck were Mankins and Vollmer…they guys did very little to negate the "finesse" or "gimmick" slights the offense is often criticized with.

 

[PittPatriot]

No Talib absense was not entirely why Pats lost or couldn't put up pts to score more to win but Deus nailed it, This game is all about momentum and belief and when Talib went out you can see a change for worse on our D and not only that you think that Brady doesn't say OH NO here we go again with our D? He's not goning say it but how many times has he put up scores only to see other teams march down with ease and score?

How many times has a he had the ball in his hands to either tie or win a playoff game and failed? 2006, 2007, 2010 (the drive to nowhere was that game in a microcosm), and 2011 come to mind. During the 2012 regular season, we lost to Baltimore the first time after blowing a lead and not being able to get point with the ball in hand and 4 mins left.
Maybe I am too hard on him…but I feel like the GOAT needs to come through when these situations arise.