The Pats Should CONSIDER Replacing Matt Patricia

[DarrylStingley]

I realize that replacing Matt Patricia isn't the hottest of topics, but here's why I think the Pats should do this:

1. Have you ever read or heard anyone say that Matt Patricia is a great coordinator? I assume the answer is no. There's no positive buzz about this guy. Brady can't say enough about Josh and yet defensive players never talk about Matt. Means something, I think.

2. As the season wore on, we saw more of BB than ever with the D during games. That shot of him coaching the D and just looking up at a Pats TD during the Texans game was cool, as it showed how focused Bill is, but it also was a commentary on Bill's level of involvement with the D, while a good thing in some respects, was more than we might have expected given that he's the HC.

3. Patricia is a younger guy who may not be able to challenge Bill.

4. Tom E Curran has alluded many times on the radio during WEEI interviews that Patricia is not a great communicator. Tom is loathe to criticize, probably partially for fear of losing access, so maybe this means something. I think Tom is a smart guy and knows his Pats stuff.

5. Romeo is available. Eric is available. Both would bring an element back to the team. I'd prefer Romeo. By a lot. But it's clear from hearing Eric on the radio that he knows his stuff and maybe he and Bill have buried the hatchet or will. Winning means more than keeping up a feud, even though Eric did a ridiculous thing.

6. While the D improved last year, it still had many flaws. All the 20 yard plays. All the yards. A fresh voice might help avoid some of those things.

So there you have it. My reasons for wanting Patricia out of his current position.

Thoughts?

CHANGED THREAD TITLE

 

[Chopblock CB]

Re: That Pats Should Replace Matt Patricia

Matty P by trade I believe was an offensive coach to begin with...he brings the unique characteristic of being an Offensive guy going over to Defense. He did a great job with the linebacking corps a few years ago and an ok job with the overall D. You can't blame him for players getting hurt. He lost Talib...Chung....Love in the first quarter and Arrington got torched several tines......Get rid of him NO!!!...move him back to the O side of the ball....ya..I'd run with that....
In regards to not standing up to BB.....I don't believe that to be true...BB has Always been a hands on coach when it comes to the D...no matter who the D coach was.....

 

[UK_Pat37]

Re: That Pats Should Replace Matt Patricia

I don't think you can read anything in to it from seeing BB getting involved with the defence. He's more often than not left the offensive side of the ball well alone and focussed on other areas. Belichick is primarily a defensive guy and it's his play book that Patricia is calling...so it's natural he wants to take a hands on approach with it.

If we're going to ditch any coach, ditch Scott O'Brien. BB must be pulling his hair out over special teams! We have never blocked well for kick-off returns for a while now and have had our coverage issues hidden by a fantastic kicker and now punter. His only saving grace is having had both Edelman and Welker to return the punts and that's just pure luck. Don't see what he's done to improve any of our units. So many penalties on STs killed us late in the year.

 

[RhodyPatriot]

Re: That Pats Should Replace Matt Patricia

Never a good sign when during the game the HC is off the sidelines and back on the bench coaching up the defense....we saw that on NUMEROUS occasions especially late in the season. NOT good!!

 

[Easywolf32]

Re: That Pats Should Replace Matt Patricia

Please fire whoever is responsible for the pats SUCKING on 3rd downs and against 20-40 yard passes, it's what has killed them since last 3 years... And if you come back next year without Talib and with the same Mickey mouse db's and db coach...good luck! I can't believe a team with superbowl potential has gone on with such a mediocre pass defense...you gotta be *****ring me! Ignore my sig as it's from the start of the season but hey..

 

[UK_Pat37]

Re: That Pats Should Replace Matt Patricia

Never a good sign when during the game the HC is off the sidelines and back on the bench coaching up the defense....we saw that on NUMEROUS occasions especially late in the season. NOT good!!

What would you rather see Belichick doing? Sitting with his feet up? It's his job.

 

[Chopblock CB]

Re: That Pats Should Replace Matt Patricia

Never a good sign when during the game the HC is off the sidelines and back on the bench coaching up the defense....we saw that on NUMEROUS occasions especially late in the season. NOT good!!

As mentioned..we have seen BB coaching up the D on many occasions over the years no matter who the DC was.....alot to do about nothing there
....

 

[cavtroop]

Re: That Pats Should Replace Matt Patricia

This is a ******ed thread.

 

[BrickPat]

Re: That Pats Should Replace Matt Patricia

As mentioned..we have seen BB coaching up the D on many occasions over the years no matter who the DC was.....alot to do about nothing there
....

I disagree in that I don't remember BB doing it as much with RAC or even with Dean Pees.

As far as replacing MP, you have a better chance of seeing Jimmmy Hoffa riding a wooly mammoth in Times Square than Mangini coming back here. I'd like to see RAC but there was talk about how the Pats wouldn't pay what he wants (assuming they had interest).

 

[BrickPat]

Re: That Pats Should Replace Matt Patricia

This is a ******ed thread.

...and yet you read and posted anyway.

 

[Chopblock CB]

Re: That Pats Should Replace Matt Patricia

I disagree in that I don't remember BB doing it as much with RAC or even with Dean Pees.

As far as replacing MP, you have a better chance of seeing Jimmmy Hoffa riding a wooly mammoth in Times Square than Mangini coming back here. I'd like to see RAC but there was talk about how the Pats wouldn't pay what he wants (assuming they had interest).

That's unfortunate you don't remember seeing him talking to all his defenses during games over they years with EVERY D coach...it's happened so many times...

 

[DarrylStingley]

Re: That Pats Should Replace Matt Patricia

This is a ******ed thread.

You can disagree with the premise but that's a bad post. Really, it's one of the worst posts I've ever seen on this site.

Why am I wrong?

I don't think I am and I think Curran's point about Patricia being a poor communicator and Bill's need to get so actively involved are indicators that maybe a change would help.

 

[zimmy]

Re: That Pats Should Replace Matt Patricia

You seem to be basing your arguments around some heresay on the radio and the fact Bill likes to take an active involvement in the defence - something he has done under more than Matt Patricia. Alternatively we could look at the facts and see that Matt presided over an improved defence this year. It's not perfect by any means but I think he's more hamstrung by lack of personnel at some key positions - relying on rookies at DE and lack of depth at cornerback/safety, then by any lack of quality in his coaching.

The scheme may be an issue but that is Bill's area and the results were similar when Bill was running the D. Getting rid of Matt isn't the answer, we need to continue to get more effective at getting pressure on the QB and being more physical at CB. That starts with personnel and perhaps some schemechanges (which I hope we saw being developed as the season progressed)

 

[borg]

Re: That Pats Should Replace Matt Patricia

As OC, Josh has led the NE offense to two of the highest scoring regular seasons in NFL history. Then, 14 pts vs Giants in '07('08 in reality) SB and 13 points vs Baltimore last week. Quite a conundrum.

A common theme with Josh as OC in these two games is his reluctance to keep Brady under center on 3rd down. Verses the NYG in '07, Brady was in shot gun 13/15 3rd downs. Verses Baltimore, Brady was in shot gun 14/15 3rd downs.

Combining both games, the 3 non shotgun snaps total were hand offs, therefore, we can determine that McDaniels called ZERO play action plays on 3rd down in these two playoff games. Verses Baltimore, NE remained permanently in 3rd shot gun for the final 55 minutes. Verses the GMen, for the final 45 minutes.

Is this the norm for passing teams, a 90% shot gun rate on 3rd down and a 0% play action rate? According to Felger and his panel yesterday, Baltimore lived in the nickel last week yet NE refused to challenge this 4 man front with Brady under center runs.

The eye test showed me both NYG and Balt controlled the LOS and NE chose to avoid direct contact with their D lines.

This quick analysis is just food for thought....but....one has to wonder why NE has scored so few points when opposing teams with stout lines. We are talking the NE Patriots, one of the greatest air shows in NFL history. Offense like Baltimore feed off of play action which, when successful, open up the center of the field by freezing the LBs. Either McDaniels just doesn't believe in it, or he accepts that NE just doesn't have the O line to win the hard yards so he can't sell it. Or it's a Brady thing.

Two big games, two clear examples of NE predictability, two of their lowest scoring games in recent years, two losses. We can argue deep receiver, etc etc....but maybe NE needs to start in the trenches with a little tendency self evaluation sprinkled in.

Sorry to go off the reservation from the OP.

 

[MTM558]

Re: That Pats Should Replace Matt Patricia

A few things:

1) Bill has ALWAYS worked extensively with the Defense. It is his background, after all. And having Tom Brady at QB and a typically well respected OC certainly helps his confidence on the offensive side of the ball.

2) Patricia has worked with the Defense that past few years. He was handpicked by Bill to take over playcalling on Defense, and become the DC. He was selected over bringing in a "big name" or even going to Pepper Johnson. That says something about what Bill sees in him
** (It also should be noted, Bill has always developed his own staff and built in house).

3) Remember when Dom Capers was here coaching the Secondary? If not, it's ok, because that group sucked. And yet Capers is now revered as a great defensive visionary?

Changing Coaches (or in this case playcallers) will only do so much (or little). Bill knows what the plays are. He can change it if he wants to. Mayo could change it if he feels they need to. What the team needs are better players to execute the incredibly complicated scheme that the Patriots employ.

Patricia was justr given the reigns. Bill won't take them away.

 

[Sicilian]

Re: That Pats Should Replace Matt Patricia

Remember when Dean Pees was the DC for the Patriots and how much people hated his passive style of defense, lack of pass rush, etc? Well he went to the Ravens and poof, he's running a solid defense down there. The difference? He still had proven veteran stars to help him on the field, and overall a lot of defensive talent. The Patriots have been trying to restock their defense since the core leaders left. I am willing to give Patricia the benefit of the doubt until he has the talent to succeed yet still doesn't. They're trending upwards, but until they get there, it's not going to matter who has the DC title.

 

[MTM558]

Re: That Pats Should Replace Matt Patricia

As OC, Josh has led the NE offense to two of the highest scoring regular seasons in NFL history. Then, 14 pts vs Giants in '07('08 in reality) SB and 13 points vs Baltimore last week. Quite a conundrum.

A common theme with Josh as OC in these two games is his reluctance to keep Brady under center on 3rd down. Verses the NYG in '07, Brady was in shot gun 13/15 3rd downs. Verses Baltimore, Brady was in shot gun 14/15 3rd downs.

Combining both games, the 3 non shotgun snaps total were hand offs, therefore, we can determine that McDaniels called ZERO play action plays on 3rd down in these two playoff games. Verses Baltimore, NE remained permanently in 3rd shot gun for the final 55 minutes. Verses the GMen, for the final 45 minutes.

Is this the norm for passing teams, a 90% shot gun rate on 3rd down and a 0% play action rate? According to Felger and his panel yesterday, Baltimore lived in the nickel last week yet NE refused to challenge this 4 man front with Brady under center runs.

The eye test showed me both NYG and Balt controlled the LOS and NE chose to avoid direct contact with their D lines.

This quick analysis is just food for thought....but....one has to wonder why NE has scored so few points when opposing teams with stout lines. We are talking the NE Patriots, one of the greatest air shows in NFL history. Offense like Baltimore feed off of play action which, when successful, open up the center of the field by freezing the LBs. Either McDaniels just doesn't believe in it, or he accepts that NE just doesn't have the O line to win the hard yards so he can't sell it. Or it's a Brady thing.

Two big games, two clear examples of NE predictability, two of their lowest scoring games in recent years, two losses. We can argue deep receiver, etc etc....but maybe NE needs to start in the trenches with a little tendency self evaluation sprinkled in.

Sorry to go off the reservation from the OP.

And to this I respond: Any great offense has a flaw. This team's is getting mugged at the line and smashed in the mouth in the run. If receivers can't get open, timing is off, which in turn causes incompletions or for extra time for the rush to hit home.

The Rams looked unstoppable until they were stopped in the Super Bowl by the Pats, no?

 

[Bubba]

Re: That Pats Should Replace Matt Patricia

during his recent chat, Bruschi said that Patricia is doing a great job

 

[DarrylStingley]

Re: That Pats Should Replace Matt Patricia

Good replies folks.

Another point though.

Romeo is such a talented DC that maybe having him around would free Bill up to do more of the many jobs that he has. And there's the fact that the Pats haven't won a SB without Romeo (and Charlie, for that matter).

I just wonder if having such a great guy on the market might make Bill decide to go that way. Or should it?

PS: To the point made in the somewhat off topic reply, I do think that the offense's failure is big games is a huge concern. I don't know what the answer is but the simple fact is that the D played well enough to win both Giants SBs and the offense is what let them down. Sure, the D didn't come up big at the end, but particularly in 2011, the offense kept putting our D back on the field. Maybe some kind of change is needed there too. Maybe a voice from the outside. And of course better personnel, and a big WR is the head of my list.

 

[Shed83]

Re: That Pats Should Replace Matt Patricia

A few things:

1) Bill has ALWAYS worked extensively with the Defense. It is his background, after all. And having Tom Brady at QB and a typically well respected OC certainly helps his confidence on the offensive side of the ball.

2) Patricia has worked with the Defense that past few years. He was handpicked by Bill to take over playcalling on Defense, and become the DC. He was selected over bringing in a "big name" or even going to Pepper Johnson. That says something about what Bill sees in him
** (It also should be noted, Bill has always developed his own staff and built in house).

3) Remember when Dom Capers was here coaching the Secondary? If not, it's ok, because that group sucked. And yet Capers is now revered as a great defensive visionary?

Changing Coaches (or in this case playcallers) will only do so much (or little). Bill knows what the plays are. He can change it if he wants to. Mayo could change it if he feels they need to. What the team needs are better players to execute the incredibly complicated scheme that the Patriots employ.

Patricia was justr given the reigns. Bill won't take them away.

Great Analysis!!

Could you start posting more?