Looking back at the wreckage: Notes, observations, rants and questions

[Deus Irae]

I deliberately waited a little while before posting after the game. It was obvious that people had lost their minds just by reading thread titles. So, apologies in advance if some of this contains errors due to memory issues, but I haven't re-watched the game. Having said that, I'll keep the O.P. short....

1. Prior to this game, I don't remember the last time I had actually hated an offensive game plan. It was as if the Patriots decided to avoid attacking every Ravens weakness.
2. Lloyd has become so contact-phobic that he's now diving to the turf on fairly wide open and easy catches. That has to be dealt with, or he'll be all but useless in the future.
3. Also, why has Lloyd evolved into a short-middle guy in the offense? That's poor utilization of him.
4. For those who used to bash on Maroney for his "dancing", he's got company now.
5. Arrington is absolutely awful on the outside. He's an inside CB3, at his very best, and is really a CB4. It's terrible to have to point this out again after all the draft picks and other signinigs, but this team needs to add an outside CB [highlight]even if[/highlight] Talib returns.
6. That said, this team's top priorities in the draft need to be S, WR and OL, probably in that order. If Gregory's the answer, I don't want to hear the question.
7. If the officials are going to let Dennard run downfield with a glove on his opponents, that kid is going to be very tough to throw on in the future. He's got a tenacity that I'm not sure anyone else in that secondary has, and that includes Mr. Talib.
8. This team's linebackers should be in a 3-4 in non-passing situations. That was shown, once again, in that game, IMO. Whether they accomplish that by putting Jones in as the "elephant", or by dropping Ninkovich into the LB group isn't as important to me as them actually doing it.
9. Take Welker and Gronk out of that offense, and you might have the softest group in the NFL.
10. Why the hell didn't the Patriots put in a Woodhead/Vereen duo into the game and then just empty the backfield or move Hernandez back there while splitting the WRs out? That's exactly the sort of thing that would have taxed that Ravens defense.
11. Brady needs to run when the run is there.
12. Lastly, to have the Super Bowl right there, and to see it taken away largely because of injuries (again) and poor play by the Patriots rather than dominance by the opponent, is starting to feel a bit too much like Charlie Brown kicking and Lucy holding.

 

[mayoclinic]

- Prior to this game, I don't remember the last time I had actually hated an offensive game plan. It was as if the Patriots decided to avoid attacking every Ravens weakness.

The Pats seem to do this every so often. It was an absolute stinker, in so many ways. I also felt that they were "playing not to lose", and that the wind may have thrown them off more than it should. They played very conservatively. I think that helped the Ravens, who realized that they could afford to take some chances, since the Pats weren't threatening them. Terrible.

[*] Arrington is absolutely awful on the outside. He's an inside CB3, at his very best, and is really a CB4. It's terrible to have to point this out again after all the draft picks and other signinigs, but this team needs to add an outside CB [highlight]even if[/highlight] Talib returns.
- That said, this team's top priorities in the draft need to be S, WR and OL, probably in that order. If Gregory's the answer, I don't want to hear the question.
- If the officials are going to let Dennard run downfield with a glove on his opponents, that kid is going to be very tough to throw on in the future. He's got a tenacity that I'm not sure anyone else in that secondary has, and that includes Mr. Talib.

I've been saying all along that we need 3 legitimate outside CBs who can play press-man. We've had only 2 in Talib and Dennard. Even McCourty, who is very good as a CB, isn't so great at man coverage, and that takes him away form the safety role where he has been so good. Dowling may be able to fill that role, otherwise we need to find someone. Keenan Allen would be ideal, but finding the money for both Talib and Allen seems impossible.

I agree about Dennard. He has tremendous physicality and tenacity. I was always high on him. He could be a Charles Tillman kind of CB down the road.

We really need a more physical presence at safety opposite McCourty who is not a liability in coverage. I hate to say it, but we need Bernard Pollard. Or Donte Whitner. But we definitely need someone who can bring a phsyical presence to the secondary and make people pay, but who isn't so far out of position to be utterly ineffective.

I think that re-signing Talib is a priority. If he doesn't stay, then finding a replacement is a high priority. Finding an additional safety and another CB is also needed.

- This team's linebackers should be in a 3-4 in non-passing situations. That was shown, once again, in that game, IMO. Whether they accomplish that by putting Jones in as the "elephant", or by dropping Ninkovich into the LB group isn't as important to me as them actually doing it.

- Take Welker and Gronk out of that offense, and you might have the softest group in the NFL.
- Why the hell didn't the Patriots put in a Woodhead/Vereen duo into the game and then just empty the backfield or move Hernandez back there while splitting the WRs out? That's exactly the sort of thing that would have taxed that Ravens defense.

The softness of the team at times and the unwillingness to take advantage of some of the potential matchups are both very vexing.

Lastly, to have the Super Bowl right there, and to see it taken away largely because of injuries (again) and poor play by the Patriots rather than dominance by the opponent, is starting to feel a bit too much like Charlie Brown kicking and Lucy holding.

I give the Ravens their due. They played well, and they deserved it. But we played terribly. I've said all along that I didn't care about the bye, or about HFA. I only cared about the team being (a) healthy and (b) playing well. Neither occurred this week. Pitiful way to end the season.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

The cited game plan conundrums bother me even more than the talent holes. Too much wasted potential, even with Lloyd's scuba diving. Easier to add missing talent than somehow reverse perplexing philosophical game plan approaches that result in massive failure.

 

[Kontradiction]

The offensive gameplan was one of the worst I've seen. They seemed way to intent on actually running plays right at the Ravens instead of getting their defense pursuing sideline to sideline and tiring them out.

 

[PatsFan2]

I deliberately waited a little while before posting after the game. It was obvious that people had lost their minds just by reading thread titles. So, apologies in advance if some of this contains errors due to memory issues, but I haven't re-watched the game. Having said that, I'll keep the O.P. short....

1. Prior to this game, I don't remember the last time I had actually hated an offensive game plan. It was as if the Patriots decided to avoid attacking every Ravens weakness.
2. Lloyd has become so contact-phobic that he's now diving to the turf on fairly wide open and easy catches. That has to be dealt with, or he'll be all but useless in the future.
3. Also, why has Lloyd evolved into a short-middle guy in the offense? That's poor utilization of him.
4. For those who used to bash on Maroney for his "dancing", he's got company now.
5. Arrington is absolutely awful on the outside. He's an inside CB3, at his very best, and is really a CB4. It's terrible to have to point this out again after all the draft picks and other signinigs, but this team needs to add an outside CB [highlight]even if[/highlight] Talib returns.
6. That said, this team's top priorities in the draft need to be S, WR and OL, probably in that order. If Gregory's the answer, I don't want to hear the question.
7. If the officials are going to let Dennard run downfield with a glove on his opponents, that kid is going to be very tough to throw on in the future. He's got a tenacity that I'm not sure anyone else in that secondary has, and that includes Mr. Talib.
8. This team's linebackers should be in a 3-4 in non-passing situations. That was shown, once again, in that game, IMO. Whether they accomplish that by putting Jones in as the "elephant", or by dropping Ninkovich into the LB group isn't as important to me as them actually doing it.
9. Take Welker and Gronk out of that offense, and you might have the softest group in the NFL.
10. Why the hell didn't the Patriots put in a Woodhead/Vereen duo into the game and then just empty the backfield or move Hernandez back there while splitting the WRs out? That's exactly the sort of thing that would have taxed that Ravens defense.
11. Brady needs to run when the run is there.
12. Lastly, to have the Super Bowl right there, and to see it taken away largely because of injuries (again) and poor play by the Patriots rather than dominance by the opponent, is starting to feel a bit too much like Charlie Brown kicking and Lucy holding.

Deus out of your 33,650 posts this is your best one yet. Seriously I agree 100% especially on Lloyd. And on toughness Welker and Gronk by far...we were out muscled and out-coached. Not one of BB better coaching performances, I think atfer tomorrow I am over this loss. One more thing after that poorly called Offensive game plan Josh McDaniels is probably BB's heir apparent...he'll be here for a very long time after Sunday's train wreck.

 

[Gronkandez]

I deliberately waited a little while before posting after the game. It was obvious that people had lost their minds just by reading thread titles. So, apologies in advance if some of this contains errors due to memory issues, but I haven't re-watched the game. Having said that, I'll keep the O.P. short....

1. Prior to this game, I don't remember the last time I had actually hated an offensive game plan. It was as if the Patriots decided to avoid attacking every Ravens weakness.I'm conflicted about this. On the one hand I would have like to see them go for it on those 4th downs. On the other hand I didn't have much confidence that they would convert. Giving the Ravens awful field position was actually very valuable. Same thing happened to the Pats last year in the SB.
2. Lloyd has become so contact-phobic that he's now diving to the turf on fairly wide open and easy catches. That has to be dealt with, or he'll be all but useless in the future.He's learned from the best (Branch)
3. Also, why has Lloyd evolved into a short-middle guy in the offense? That's poor utilization of him. It's because Lloyd is slow as crap. He just isn't a deep threat
4. For those who used to bash on Maroney for his "dancing", he's got company now.
5. Arrington is absolutely awful on the outside. He's an inside CB3, at his very best, and is really a CB4. It's terrible to have to point this out again after all the draft picks and other signinigs, but this team needs to add an outside CB [highlight]even if[/highlight] Talib returns.
6. That said, this team's top priorities in the draft need to be S, WR and OL, probably in that order. If Gregory's the answer, I don't want to hear the question.
7. If the officials are going to let Dennard run downfield with a glove on his opponents, that kid is going to be very tough to throw on in the future. He's got a tenacity that I'm not sure anyone else in that secondary has, and that includes Mr. Talib.
8. This team's linebackers should be in a 3-4 in non-passing situations. That was shown, once again, in that game, IMO. Whether they accomplish that by putting Jones in as the "elephant", or by dropping Ninkovich into the LB group isn't as important to me as them actually doing it.
9. Take Welker and Gronk out of that offense, and you might have the softest group in the NFL.and not very talented
10. Why the hell didn't the Patriots put in a Woodhead/Vereen duo into the game and then just empty the backfield or move Hernandez back there while splitting the WRs out? That's exactly the sort of thing that would have taxed that Ravens defense.
11. Brady needs to run when the run is there.Please dear God no! I know what you're saying but he will get teed off on. He's about as nimble as an elepahnt!!
12. Lastly, to have the Super Bowl right there, and to see it taken away largely because of injuries (again) and poor play by the Patriots rather than dominance by the opponent, is starting to feel a bit too much like Charlie Brown kicking and Lucy holding.

These are all points that have been made over the past couple of days though it seems like you're missing "Where is the Swagger on defense?" and "It's more important to franchise Talib than Welker."

 

[Deus Irae]

Something else I think worth mentioning, but didn't put in the O.P. because it encompasses more than just the last game even as a tangent, is that the lack of a pass rusher at the end of the season made the non-signing of Carter look like precisely the issue some of us were worried it would be.

 

[PatsFan2]

Something else I think worth mentioning, but didn't put in the O.P. because it encompasses more than just the last game even as a tangent, is that the lack of a pass rusher at the end of the season made the non-signing of Carter look like precisely the issue some of us were worried it would be.

Jermain Cunningham wasn't a factor off the juice...we need another Chandler Jones via the draft.

 

[Deus Irae]

The Pats seem to do this every so often. It was an absolute stinker, in so many ways. I also felt that they were "playing not to lose", and that the wind may have thrown them off more than it should. They played very conservatively. I think that helped the Ravens, who realized that they could afford to take some chances, since the Pats weren't threatening them. Terrible.

It just made no sense to me. I think they need to self-scout and ask themselves if they've become risk averse to the point where they're more afraid of losing they they are desirous of winning when it comes to playoff games.

 

[Steve102]

There's some good points in this thread... the conservative game plan... playing not to lose and letting the wind get in their heads... needing Bernard Pollard (a-freaking-men)...lack of a pass rush. All valid.

I really feel the Pats are further away than 1-2 players still. The fact that they get this far often is really mind blowing. But that doesn't take into consideration that they are suddenly risk-averse. It's as if they've channeled John Madden, circa Super Bowl XXXVI.

Getting back to my 1-2 players... I think we need at least two more DB's, some size/height at WR, that elusive pass rusher we can never seem to get, and maybe even a MLB upgrade over Spikes, who style I love BTW. I might be way off base, but is he big enough to put on the line in a three point stance, where his lack of speed is no longer an issue? I know he's listed at 6'2", 255 llbs, but the eye test says he looks bigger than that.

 

[Deus Irae]

There's some good points in this thread... the conservative game plan... playing not to lose and letting the wind get in their heads... needing Bernard Pollard (a-freaking-men)...lack of a pass rush. All valid.

I really feel the Pats are further away than 1-2 players still. The fact that they get this far often is really mind blowing. But that doesn't take into consideration that they are suddenly risk-averse. It's as if they've channeled John Madden, circa Super Bowl XXXVI.

Getting back to my 1-2 players... I think we need at least two more DB's, some size/height at WR, that elusive pass rusher we can never seem to get, and maybe even a MLB upgrade over Spikes, who style I love BTW. I might be way off base, but is he big enough to put on the line in a three point stance, where his lack of speed is no longer an issue? I know he's listed at 6'2", 255 llbs, but the eye test says he looks bigger than that.

I'm not saying that I disagree with your basic idea, but I think we're looking at a skewed equation, because injuries are killing this team in recent postseasons. Take the team that was out there, add Gronk, Talib and a healthy Jones, and we're almost certainly looking at a Patriots-49ers Super Bowl, even with all the gripes/questions I posted.

If I were to list what I think are the 2 most important additions for this team (assuming they keep Welker and Talib), I'd list safety and WR3 (preferably with excellent deep speed), and I'd follow those with CB and DL.

 

[SVN]

I deliberately waited a little while before posting after the game. It was obvious that people had lost their minds just by reading thread titles. So, apologies in advance if some of this contains errors due to memory issues, but I haven't re-watched the game. Having said that, I'll keep the O.P. short....

1. Prior to this game, I don't remember the last time I had actually hated an offensive game plan. It was as if the Patriots decided to avoid attacking every Ravens weakness.
2. Lloyd has become so contact-phobic that he's now diving to the turf on fairly wide open and easy catches. That has to be dealt with, or he'll be all but useless in the future.
3. Also, why has Lloyd evolved into a short-middle guy in the offense? That's poor utilization of him.
4. For those who used to bash on Maroney for his "dancing", he's got company now.
5. Arrington is absolutely awful on the outside. He's an inside CB3, at his very best, and is really a CB4. It's terrible to have to point this out again after all the draft picks and other signinigs, but this team needs to add an outside CB [highlight]even if[/highlight] Talib returns.
6. That said, this team's top priorities in the draft need to be S, WR and OL, probably in that order. If Gregory's the answer, I don't want to hear the question.
7. If the officials are going to let Dennard run downfield with a glove on his opponents, that kid is going to be very tough to throw on in the future. He's got a tenacity that I'm not sure anyone else in that secondary has, and that includes Mr. Talib.
8. This team's linebackers should be in a 3-4 in non-passing situations. That was shown, once again, in that game, IMO. Whether they accomplish that by putting Jones in as the "elephant", or by dropping Ninkovich into the LB group isn't as important to me as them actually doing it.
9. Take Welker and Gronk out of that offense, and you might have the softest group in the NFL.
10. Why the hell didn't the Patriots put in a Woodhead/Vereen duo into the game and then just empty the backfield or move Hernandez back there while splitting the WRs out? That's exactly the sort of thing that would have taxed that Ravens defense.
11. Brady needs to run when the run is there.
12. Lastly, to have the Super Bowl right there, and to see it taken away largely because of injuries (again) and poor play by the Patriots rather than dominance by the opponent, is starting to feel a bit too much like Charlie Brown kicking and Lucy holding.

The patriots started believing in the Ravens more than themselves as the game went on. They were tight .Tried too many things ("The mallet in the huddle was the prime example") and didnt believe they could win unless they scored fast and ran plays fast. An exact opposite to the texan game where they never felt they could lose.
We see BB ignore the offense and concentrate on defense in previous games. Dont know if he did but I think he could've pulled aside JMcD and offered some input.

 

[SVN]

I think we're looking at a skewed equation, because injuries are killing this team in recent postseasons. Take the team that was out there, add Gronk, Talib and a healthy Jones, and we're almost certainly looking at a Patriots-49ers Super Bowl, even with all the gripes/questions I posted.

Sad part is , even without those three , they had a chance to put the game way in the first half.

 

[Deus Irae]

Sad part is , even without those three , they had a chance to put the game way in the first half.

Indeed. Better red zone play and this team is up big early. Of course, not having Gronk is a part of why that red zone play wasn't as good as it needed to be. One conclusion I've sadly had to come to is that Hernandez is far too much WR and not enough TE when it comes to working the red zone, if you know what I mean. Maybe a guy like Ballard will be able to serve as a better alternative next season.

 

[Mack Herron]

Something else I think worth mentioning, but didn't put in the O.P. because it encompasses more than just the last game even as a tangent, is that the lack of a pass rusher at the end of the season made the non-signing of Carter look like precisely the issue some of us were worried it would be.

I thought most players played to their capabilities, but there are some glaring exceptions, most notably the coach and QB. From a personnel standpoint, it was painful to see the same positions that BB has been unable to fill in the past haunted us again (CB, WR, TE, DL pass rush). The clock management gaffe was (another) inexcusable brain freeze by the HOF QB (and BB). They surely missed Gronk and Edelman, partly because they are two tough receivers who can both run with the ball and block. Lloyd's fear of contact not only prevents YAC, but also bubble screens, reverses and downfield blocking. Branch was useless but BB continued to trot him out there. I would have used a much more balanced attack with the running game where we do have some toughness (Mankins, Vollmer) as well as productivity. BB lacked the fortitute to use the running game sufficiently. Once again they reverted to putting it all on Brady's shoulders, and once again he could not handle the load. This offensive playoff fizzle is a recurring theme. In the past you could say he had no real running option, but you couldn't say that this year and he still refused to trust it (even though they averaged 4 yards per carry).

On defense, they have only 2 solid CBs on the roster and when 1 went down it was only a matter of time. At safety, they cover ground but lack the toughness to successfully challenge physical receivers or come up and stuff the run. So the absence of a pass rush, inadequate coverage, and no physical presence from the safeties let Flacco throw with impugnity.

We have some big, tough players on offense (Mankins, Vollmer, Ridley) but the coaches leaned instead on smaller, softer players and gave away the physical edge to the Ravens (who thrived on it). We needed more playmakers, but the coaches also failed to utilize the available personnel to their best advantage. In the end, Harbaugh was the better coach, Flacco the better QB, and Baltimore the better team.

 

[SVN]

Indeed. Better red zone play and this team is up big early. Of course, not having Gronk is a part of why that red zone play wasn't as good as it needed to be. One conclusion I've sadly had to come to is that Hernandez is far too much WR and not enough TE when it comes to working the red zone, if you know what I mean. Maybe a guy like Ballard will be able to serve as a better alternative next season.

Mangini brought ballard up yesterday for pats next yr. I still question the mental makeup of the team when they know they are playing physical teams. They lack active/aggressive leadership other than brady even on defense. Wilfork and Mayo are passive leaders , they dont have enforcers who speak their mind to BB and brady. Maybe talib was such a guy who knows. But whole team including D looks forward to brady for leadership now.

 

[Gumby]

I deliberately waited a little while before posting after the game. It was obvious that people had lost their minds just by reading thread titles. So, apologies in advance if some of this contains errors due to memory issues, but I haven't re-watched the game.

Well, you must be younger than me; cause I didnt see any memory issues in anythign you said below (just diff of opinions)

Having said that, I'll keep the O.P. short....

1. ......
3. ...
4. ...
5. ...
6. That said, this team's top priorities in the draft need to be S, WR and OL, probably in that order. If Gregory's the answer, I don't want to hear the question.
7. .... TRUE. thanks for 1 piece of good news.
8. ....
9. ....
10. .....
11. ....
12. Lastly, to have the Super Bowl right there, and to see it taken away largely because of injuries (again) and poor play by the Patriots rather than dominance by the opponent, is starting to feel a bit too much like Charlie Brown kicking and Lucy holding.

EXCELLENT analysis. Especially the kicker at the end.

Although, as it was slowly happening like chinese water torture and I held out hope until there were 5min left; it was like you could see it coming and could accept it. Ok season is done.

I was a lot more pissed after the Jesters OT game. I saw that same lack of spirit - take it to the other guy attitude was missing there; but THEN there was a whole season of possibility left then. So it was more painful cause it felt like the whole season being peed away and being given to a team that didnt deserve it. This although the ticket to the SB; at least felt like the other guy was deserving it. still a bit of a giveaway.

On the draft priority.

S #1 have no problem there. (although if truly a deep S draft - some could argue for taking a chance til rnd 2, .... i wouldnt).

2/3 priority i would rather see some combination of OL-DL-LB (2 of 3) rather than a wr. I just dont think you are going to get a TRUE GUARANTEED (if there is such a thing) IMPACT wr at other than rnd 1 and the priority there is above.

I think you throw some later rnd picks at wrs and bring in some FAs too; still re-sign Lloyd and Wes and Edelman if possible. just make sure the wrs you draft have some attitude even if they dont have the #s to be rnd1.

 

[aluminum seats]

Take the team that was out there, add Gronk, Talib and a healthy Jones, and we're almost certainly looking at a Patriots-49ers Super Bowl

I think this says it, and apart from some poor execution Sunday really makes the vast majority of threads/analysis going on right now moot.

This team is loaded. The injuries have really been undersold, which is odd given how quick analysts are to throw excuses to other teams. Going into the Houston game, the team was pretty healthy (we thought). If someone had said the Pats were going to lose Gronkowski, Jones (he was essentially done, he played 2 snaps) and Talib, it would have completely changed how this team was viewed. As it is, all we're hearing is how the Pats aren't "tough" enough. Please.

I do agree that a hard-hitting safety would be great--Gregory would be a tremendous player off the bench. Always look to fortify the lines. And get a burner WR into the mix, for sure. But even without those changes, I'd sign for this team, HEALTHY, going into a game anytime.

 

[Steve102]

I'm not saying that I disagree with your basic idea, but I think we're looking at a skewed equation, because injuries are killing this team in recent postseasons. Take the team that was out there, add Gronk, Talib and a healthy Jones, and we're almost certainly looking at a Patriots-49ers Super Bowl, even with all the gripes/questions I posted.

If I were to list what I think are the 2 most important additions for this team (assuming they keep Welker and Talib), I'd list safety and WR3 (preferably with excellent deep speed), and I'd follow those with CB and DL.

I agree, IF they were healthy, we'd be getting excited for the game instead of analyzing the off-season. There are always injuries. Look at the pre-season roster. 8 WR's on the roster just before camp opened. What do we have now? Maybe Wes, and a contact avoiding Lloyd.

Not to hijack the thread, but I am of the opinion that Wes won't be back, and they'll go with Hernandez in the slot, Edelman backing him up, with Ballard, Gronk and TBA rounding out at TE. Hernandez fits the mold of a big receiver, a Megatron, Roddy White, Torrie smith, Boldin type of build.

Back to your point, if they addressed S, WR3, CB and DL in the off season, I'd be excited that they filled some positions of need. I think the rest is just splitting hairs. There's some holes, but it sounds like we all agree it's not insurmountable.

 

[Deus Irae]

Although, as it was slowly happening like chinese water torture and I held out hope until there were 5min left; it was like you could see it coming and could accept it. Ok season is done.

I "knew" the game was over when Ridley fumbled. It was at that point that I started watching the Castle marathon on TNT and just flicking over to the game during commercials.