Mangini: The Ravens did to the Patriots what the Patriots used to do to the Colts

[Kontradiction]

Sign Armon Armstead, Draft Matt Elam and DJ Swearinger, Resign Talib.

Run a 3 safety system and let Elam and Swearinger lay wood.

We're not going to get anywhere near Matt Elam.

 

[IllegalContact]

I think there's a difference......the colts were nevere winning against the pats in those games back then....the pats pretty much had their foot on the colts head from the first 5 min of the game.

this one, the pats had the lead and stopped the ravens at the start of the 2nd half....I said to myself 'great' they're pretty much getting the ball as though they deferred.....they moved the ball down the field, and 1st and 10 at the ravens 34, stopped cold......ridley was running the ball well, but they had woodhead out there, then decided to go deep.....this is where the pats needed to do some force-feeding of the running game.....kill more time.....even if they had only gotten an FG, it would have changed the game completely........but the punt from the 34 showed the pats hand that they were playing not to lose, and it gave the ravens all the confidence they needed......

the pats simply screwed up.....made the wrong call......lacked confidence in themselves.........whatever you want to call it......the game ended there

 

[mayoclinic]

the punt from the 34 showed the pats hand that they were playing not to lose, and it gave the ravens all the confidence they needed......

the pats simply screwed up.....made the wrong call......lacked confidence in themselves.........whatever you want to call it......the game ended there

I would call it playing out of a "foxhole".

 

[grux]

I miss the days when our defense used to play physical. Watch this video from 2:51. Pats classics- 2003 AFC Championship vs Colts - YouTube
Spikes has been a nice physical presence but he needs some help from a safety and corner back.

 

[Sicilian]

I think what we're seeing is just how difficult it is to build a defense like the Ravens or the Pats from the early 2000's. Tough, both physically and mentally, but skilled enough to make plays too. The Patriots were led by key players: Bruschi, McGinest, Vrabel, Harrison, Law, etc. Once those players were all gone, it's been hard to build a team like that again. Not because BB has "lost" anything, but it's just one of those things that's really hard to recreate.

I will be very curious to see what the Ravens become once Lewis and Reed are gone. They've still got good players, and you'd think they'll have the same attitude, but it's going to be just as hard for them to reach this level again as it has been for us. If they pull it off, kudos to them.

 

[IllegalContact]

I would call it playing out of a "foxhole".

yup.....BB had a quote like that the previous week......

in 2001 they damned the torpedoes.......they should have this time.....it is a telling decision to the opponent.....even if unseccessful, the ensuing exertion by the ravens on the pats would not have been as effective

 

[PatsFan2]

Re: Mangini: The Ravens did to the Patriots what they used to do to the Colts

I'm not sure what he was watching then because it was pretty apparent that they were being much more physical with our receivers than any team had been throughout the season. Mangini saw the film and saw the same thing. A big bodied, physical wide receiver that can threaten every level of the field to go with the TE's and (hopefully) Welker would be just what the doctor ordered for this offense.

Isn't that what Lloyd does according to some??

 

[Palm Beach Pats Fan]

We're not going to get anywhere near Matt Elam.

Care to elaborate? He has a reputation for getting personal fouls, for trash talking after delivering devastating hits, and most of all for delivering those devastating hits.

He's smallish (5'10"), so there could be durability issues. I don't know of any of the off-field issues one often worries about with an Urban Meyer recruit, though.

 

[olschool]

Re: Mangini: The Ravens did to the Patriots what they used to do to the Colts

I'm not sure what he was watching then because it was pretty apparent that they were being much more physical with our receivers than any team had been throughout the season. Mangini saw the film and saw the same thing. A big bodied, physical wide receiver that can threaten every level of the field to go with the TE's and (hopefully) Welker would be just what the doctor ordered for this offense.

If you remember back to the regular season, they did exactly the same in that game. We all complained that the replacement refs lost control of the game. Apparently Goodell gave them the okay to mug our receivers, since it wasn't called this time either.

I guess hands to the face isn't as cut and dried as we thought it was.

 

[Miktik]

Re: Mangini: The Ravens did to the Patriots what they used to do to the Colts

Isn't that what Lloyd does according to some??

Lloyd physical? Are we talking about Brandon?

 

[DocHoliday]

Care to elaborate? He has a reputation for getting personal fouls, for trash talking after delivering devastating hits, and most of all for delivering those devastating hits.

He's smallish (5'10"), so there could be durability issues. I don't know of any of the off-field issues one often worries about with an Urban Meyer recruit, though.

If he's gonna lay wood you'd hope he'a not going to injure himself like Chung.

 

[Marqui]

Re: Mangini: The Ravens did to the Patriots what they used to do to the Colts

Is it the players, or is it the approach? I'm not sure. We used to be a very physical defense, back in the old days. The last guy we had on our D who was really a "badass" was Meriweather, and we cut him. He had his problems, but he did bring some attitude and toughness. Talib brought a little of that, but it seemed missing when he left.

I found it very telling that none other than Dean Pees was the DC of that Ravens defense. Pees was the poster child for soft BBDB defense when he was here. But was that his choice, or because that was what BB asked of him? It seems like he was perfectly comfortable playing a more aggressive, physical style yesterday. And I don't think that Bernard Pollard is a special talent. He's just a tough, nasty dude. How many tough, nasty dudes do we have on either side of the ball? Mankins, maybe Gronk and Vollmer on offense. We have lots of very good players on defense, and some of them are fairly physical, but in terms of pure physical punishment and nastiness? Brandon Spikes is really the only guy who stands out. Remember how Rodney was reviled as the "dirtiest" player in the NFL? He was a headhunter, and sent a message. Who in our defense sends that kind of "don't mess with me" message any more?

We've loaded up on team captains and talent. I'd like to see us get some really bad ass dudes. They don't have to be high draft picks. But they have to be really physical guys, who won't back down from anyone. Because what I saw was that the other team hit us in the mouth, and we backed down, just like we used to make other teams back down. That happened to us against the Steelers last year, too, and to some extent against the 49ers this year, at least for 3 quarters. That's too big a weakness to be ignored. JMHO.

This is all right, but I'm skeptical that Belichick will bring himself to change the
makeup of the defense. He just doesn't seem to care as much anymore about nastiness of defense, all he's concerned about is "football IQ" or whatever.

I mean the guy chose Steve Gregory over LaRon Landry. Think about that.

 

[sieglo]

Re: Mangini: The Ravens did to the Patriots what they used to do to the Colts

Those guys just grow on trees, don't they?

The guy I've said all along I want the Pats to get is Larry Fitzgerald. Big, fast, unbelievable hands.....he's everything you'd want in a receiver. Unfortunately, he's also on another team and he has a huge contract. So getting him would cost the Pats a ton for the trade, but also they'd have to cut some guys to make room for him salary-cap-wise.

IOW, not gonna happen, unfortunately. Now, if they could find someone like that in the draft, who actually will pan out......maybe.

I hear Chad Jackson may be available.

 

[Pat the Pats Fan]

I thought this too as the game was winding down. We have become the Colts, high powered offense and average defense, winning by outscoring their opponents.

Revens looked like the '04 Pats, piling up offensive points against Denver, an above average defense and holding the best offense to nothing. Just like we handled the #1 offense, Colts and #1 defense Steelers that year.

 

[Sciz]

Re: Mangini: The Ravens did to the Patriots what they used to do to the Colts

This is all right, but I'm skeptical that Belichick will bring himself to change the
makeup of the defense. He just doesn't seem to care as much anymore about nastiness of defense, all he's concerned about is "football IQ" or whatever.

I mean the guy chose Steve Gregory over LaRon Landry. Think about that.

1. The main concern reportedly was with his health, which was worse than anticipated. He had missed 15 of the previous 23 games and was still not healthy when the Jets signed him.
2. Landry didn't have nearly as good of a season as Jets fans or that Pro Bowl selection say.
3. Gregory's cap hit was less than half of Landry's, so it definitely not as easy as picking one or the other.

 

[Brady_to_Moss]

Re: Mangini: The Ravens did to the Patriots what they used to do to the Colts

Patriots need an outside WR who can get physical with the DBs, a Dez Bryant kind of guy.

i wouldn't mind a greg jenning or harvin..but they will come at a price and if we keep welker..we won't be making a big splash in the WR department

 

[mayoclinic]

Re: Mangini: The Ravens did to the Patriots what they used to do to the Colts

This is all right, but I'm skeptical that Belichick will bring himself to change the
makeup of the defense. He just doesn't seem to care as much anymore about nastiness of defense, all he's concerned about is "football IQ" or whatever.

I mean the guy chose Steve Gregory over LaRon Landry. Think about that.

You're not the only one who has been skeptical. Manxman's been leading that cry for a while now.

My main hope is that some brutal losses like this and the fact that the Pats have had a dominant 3 year run (39-9 in the regular season) in which they have come close but been unable to finish the job in the postseason (3-3 in the playoffs over those 3 years, with a loss in each of the divisional round, AFCCG and SB) may convince him that it's time to shake things up a bit, on both offense and defense.

The last AFCCG loss was the catalyst for the conversion to a more wide open offense, with the acquisitions of Moss and Welker and the advent of the spread. Perhaps this loss will be the catalyst for the reversion to a more physical, punishing brand of football on both sides of the LOS. The Steelers (2008 victory, 2010 appearance), Giants (2007, 2011 victories) and Ravens and 49ers this year are all proof that you can get to and win the Super Bowl while still playing a very physical, punishing style.

 

[coolguy]

Re: Mangini: The Ravens did to the Patriots what they used to do to the Colts

i wouldn't mind a greg jenning or harvin..but they will come at a price and if we keep welker..we won't be making a big splash in the WR department

It's time to turn the page on welker. The patriots let Deion branch walk after proving how dependable he was in the postseason....unlike welker.

 

[Palm Beach Pats Fan]

Re: Mangini: The Ravens did to the Patriots what they used to do to the Colts

i wouldn't mind a greg jenning or harvin..but they will come at a price and if we keep welker..we won't be making a big splash in the WR department

To me, Harvin's not an outside guy, he's a shifty 5'11" slot guy who happens to be hurt a lot and would be a Welker replacement, not a supplement.

Jennings is also 5'11" but would be a better choice outside because he's more physical. He's also 29 though and has been unhappy/lazy in a pass-crazy winning environment, which raises red flags.

It's a pretty lean FA crop:

WalterFootball.com: 2013 NFL Free Agents - Wide Receivers

Dwayne Bowe may be the best at adding a physical component that we lack, but he is looking for $$$$s

 

[mayoclinic]

Re: Mangini: The Ravens did to the Patriots what they used to do to the Colts

To me, Harvin's not an outside guy, he's a shifty 5'11" slot guy who happens to be hurt a lot and would be a Welker replacement, not a supplement.

Jennings is also 5'11" but would be a better choice outside because he's more physical. He's also 29 though and has been unhappy/lazy in a pass-crazy winning environment, which raises red flags.

It's a pretty lean FA crop:

WalterFootball.com: 2013 NFL Free Agents - Wide Receivers

Dwayne Bowe may be the best at adding a physical component that we lack, but he is looking for $$$$s

I had thought of Bowe. He will probably reach FA. The question is $$$$. He probably wants Vincent Jackson kind of money. But he's been a productive, reliable receiver, and he would provide the large target and physical outside presence that we've lacked.

I think the money issue makes it a long shot, but it wouldn't completely shock me if the FO decided that it was time to shake things up. I have no idea. But we've gone 39-9 in the regular season the last 3 years while only going 3-3 in the post-season, so they may decide that something more is needed to get over the top.