Rodak: Resetting the 2013 roster and FA

[MoLewisrocks]

Nice overview and commentary. Pending FA and even if we resign our top 5 impending FA (Welker, Vollmer, Talib, Woodhead and Edelman) WR is clearly the thinnest position on the roster. Followed by CB. The franchise tag #'s for the 3 we might consider tagging one of are Welker $11.4M. Vollmer $9.66M and Talib $10.66M.

The Patriots have 54 players signed including futures contracts (which are essentially invites to train and participate in off season activities) with an off season roster limit of 80. Cap wise the team is projected to have roughly $18M+ in available cap space prior to any cuts, restructures or extensions. A Brady extension would potentially free up at least several million more. Restructures for Mankins and/or a possible extension for Wilfork would potentially free up another $5M or so. Fells could be cut with a cap savings of almost a million, but that would likely go towards a tender or extension for Hooman who is a RFA. An original round tender for Hooman who was drafted in the 5th would be $1.33M. So we have the potential to create upwards of $30M in cap space.

Resetting roster and free agents - New England Patriots Blog - ESPN Boston

 

[bagwell368]

Not bad, but a serious underselling of the need for another DT/NT that will be at least 3rd on the depth chart. Love getting banged up in the game showed the weakness in our depth. Wilfork would be more effective if he had another 10 plays a game on the bench too.

 

[ausbacker]

When you see the roster broken down as such you realise how many holes there still are to fill, especially on D before it's a consistently good unit.

It must be a sobering experience for other teams when I can see that many needs on the Patriots given the state of other rosters.

 

[upstater1]

There's a chance they actually tag Vollmer even though that's a huge chunk of money. He probably needs to show he can do this for at least one year without any issues. Not sure he's in line for a long-term contract, even though he played great this year. Remember, he often took on the opposition's best pass rushing threat this year.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Field Yates also restating/updating the Patriots picks in the April 25th draft:

As part of our look into what the offseason has in store for the Patriots, here is a refresher on the team's round-by-round selections in the upcoming NFL draft, which begins April 25.

First round: Own (29th overall)
Second round: Own
Third round: Own
Fourth round: None (pick sent to Tampa Bay in Aqib Talib trade)
Fifth round: None (pick sent to Washington in Albert Haynesworth trade)
Sixth round: None (pick sent to Cincinnati in Chad Johnson trade)
Seventh round: Own, Tampa Bay's (pick acquired in Aqib Talib trade)

That leaves the Patriots with just five selections entering the proceedings, a low number compared to how the team has normally stocked up under Bill Belichick. Draft day trades are common, opening the door for the Patriots to acquire more picks.

And a few dates to keep in mind for FA. Franchise tags can begin to be applied on February 18th and must be applied no later than March 4th. FA commences on March 12th and all RFA tenders must be executed by 4PM. However under new rules supposed to eliviate tampering all teams can legally enter discussions with any other teams impending UFA in a 3 day window commencing on March 9th, although actual contracts cannot be signed until the 12th.

 

[IllegalContact]

for 2013:
QB: same
RB: woodhead gone......add demps
OL: bring back vollmer......add a decent prospect for competition
TE: hernandez, gronk, ballard, and either hooman or a hernandez-type prospect
WR: complete overhaul just like 2007 the idea is to reverse the trend of reception consolidation.....
DT: need a blue-chip here to take some heat off of wilfork......everybody else here are depth players.....none of them are deserved starters.
DE: pats are set......scott is gone.....jones,francis,bequette will be improved in their 2nd years
LB: time to add a decent MLB prospect.....spikes is in his last year of his rookie deal, and I'm not sure he's long for the spot in this defense.....the pats need to get faster in that spot
CB: Dennard is one starter....hopefullt talib is the other......if they're going to stay small at S, then I would like to see a prospect added with some size and strength to interrupt at the LOS.....the pats need to do more press coverage
S: depending on how CB plays out, but a guy like laron landry would be nice......its getting old watching this group try to hit people, only to hurt themselves........need to put something into the backs of the minds of the pass recievers

in principle, use draft for DT,ILB,OL,CB, use FA for WR and S

 

[IllegalContact]

question: can the pats trade ballard?

 

[Snake Eyes]

question: can the pats trade ballard?

Why would you want to? He's very low cost with high potential. No team is going to give much of anything for him because he's banged up, it makes more sense to keep him and see what he can do.

 

[IllegalContact]

as of right now, my draft looks like this:

round 1: Jesse Williams DT.......this guy has played 5-tech DE as well as NG....he is used as an interior rusher in the passing game as well as FB in short yardage........former rugby player....typical aussie madman
round 2: move down with the hope of getting a 3 and a 4
round 3a: TE Jordan Reed....the next aaron hernandez......literally......this would give us 2 of each type of TE (gronk,ballard,hernandez,reed)
round 3b: ILB Nico Johnson......decent size, fast, and crimson tough
round 4: WR ryan swope.....because he fits and is proven.
round 7a: OT reid fragel....project that seems worth it
round 7b: whoever drops in the draft because they got in a bar fight

 

[IllegalContact]

Why would you want to? He's very low cost with high potential. No team is going to give much of anything for him because he's banged up, it makes more sense to keep him and see what he can do.

not because I want to, just from an asset standpoint......figuring that there's only so many offensive plays in a given season that maybe he's overkill and if he can garner a good return in the form of a decent draft pick, then you can turn that into whatever you want.....Not looking to trade him.....but if there's something you really want, he could be the means to get it

 

[Snake Eyes]

not because I want to, just from an asset standpoint......figuring that there's only so many offensive plays in a given season that maybe he's overkill and if he can garner a good return in the form of a decent draft pick, then you can turn that into whatever you want.....Not looking to trade him.....but if there's something you really want, he could be the means to get it

I'd have to disagree with you on him being redundant, Gronk is really the only true TE on the roster that can be effective in the passing game, and he was sorely missed on Sunday. We absolutely need someone who can step for Gronk and keep the machine moving.

 

[IllegalContact]

based on the draft I mentioned, the FA pursuits would be largely surrounding WR and the secondary

WR:
if the pats are going to spend big money on a WR, then mike wallace would appear to be by far, the first choice....talk about getting someone to open up the middle.....given the existence of the TE's plus the drafting of ryan swopes, the welker days would be nothing more than a memory

if that works out, I would also add someon elike domenik hixon....who can do the punt return duties.

DB: there are tons of CB's and S's available in FA.....too many to start......there will be some appealing deals that can be made with some decent talent to complement the youth that is here......this will also make it easier to bring back talib

OL: tons of these guys available too.......as long as scar is here, the choices are not so critical.......this situation will also make bringing vollmer back more reasonable.

DL: maybe terrence knighton....he'd help

 

[IllegalContact]

I'd have to disagree with you on him being redundant, Gronk is really the only true TE on the roster that can be effective in the passing game, and he was sorely missed on Sunday. We absolutely need someone who can step for Gronk and keep the machine moving.

there's no certainty that ballard would keep the machine moving any better than fells or hooman.......he's not gronk

but I understand the sentiment.......he's cheap, so there's value in that......

 

[MoLewisrocks]

not because I want to, just from an asset standpoint......figuring that there's only so many offensive plays in a given season that maybe he's overkill and if he can garner a good return in the form of a decent draft pick, then you can turn that into whatever you want.....Not looking to trade him.....but if there's something you really want, he could be the means to get it

Given what we just went through with the position in an offense built around the two TE set, trading away a TE who might potentially back up an unfortunately injury prone Gronkowski or Hernandez (better than anything they've located to date) is worth more to this team than a day 3 draft pick. Which you could probably get from the Giants because they drafted him and had no intention of parting with him.

As for other interest, we claimed him off waivers which means there was virtually no other interest. Won't be until he is seen back on the field. As for whether or not you could trade him, you can trade any player under contract. In his case he won't be until he is tendered as a ERFA once FA opens. And he has to sign his tender to be under contract.

Same stipulation as with RFA's and franchise or transition tagged players. You own their rights in the meantime but rights alone can't be traded, only contracts. Tag and trade with franchise players is technically a violation although if everyone is in agreement the league looks the other way while the details get ironed out between three consenting parties. What basically happened in Welker's case when he was a RFA. In the end however the player has to sign his tag or tender before the trade can be consumated and only then does he get to ink an alternative deal with the acquiring club. That's the reason most tagged players don't generally sign until camp or later. They don't want to be arbitrarily traded in a deal to a team they had no input/leverage in negotiating with if they can avoid it.

 

[resdubwhite]

Folks. Is there any update on the Fanene cash (3.5 mill)
If that is retained surely we have a better chance of keeping some of our FA's.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

based on the draft I mentioned, the FA pursuits would be largely surrounding WR and the secondary

WR:
if the pats are going to spend big money on a WR, then mike wallace would appear to be by far, the first choice....talk about getting someone to open up the middle.....given the existence of the TE's plus the drafting of ryan swopes, the welker days would be nothing more than a memory

if that works out, I would also add someon elike domenik hixon....who can do the punt return duties.

DB: there are tons of CB's and S's available in FA.....too many to start......there will be some appealing deals that can be made with some decent talent to complement the youth that is here......this will also make it easier to bring back talib

OL: tons of these guys available too.......as long as scar is here, the choices are not so critical.......this situation will also make bringing vollmer back more reasonable.

DL: maybe terrence knighton....he'd help

The Steelers weren't sold on Wallace a year ago. Now they are losing no sleep waving to him on his way out of town. He hasn't shown me anything that would lead me to believe he could perform consistently enough in this offense to make him worth a fraction of the $11M+ he is reportedly seeking in a long term deal. And it's pretty hard to project on landing a particular pick in the 4th, especially when you don't have a pick in that round. Not to mention it's a process here and particularly in an offense no one in college runs. It was a simpler offense in Branch and Given's day and even then it took them a year to work their way into it.

Add that to the fact that they remain committed here to running a two TE set to which they have already committed roughly $15M per to and I don't see them adding an $11-12M per WR with no background in a offense as demanding or cerebral as this. Or relying on a rookie to replace Welker in the same.

I don't think we will have a clue what they are thinking of doing until we get past the tag deadline and see if they have extended any of their own FA prior to 3/12. In the meantime it's safer to assume they will continue to kick some veteran tires and as well as late round draftees or UDFA's to find the missing link on offense. They don't need an all world deep threat let alone the expense of one. Been there, done that, didn't work. And in this two TE offense if they're ever both healthy together again that guy would be relegated to third or fourth option at best. That's why they asscanned Randy.

 

[IllegalContact]

so as of this revision, my 2013 roster would look something like this:

QB - brady, mallett
RB - ridley, vereen, bolden, demps(who may also work out as a deep threat)
TE - gronk, hernandez, ballard, reed
OL - solder,mankins,wendell,connolly,vollmer(or FA replacement), cannon, macdonald, body, body
WR - wallace,lloyd,swopes,hixon,slater
DT - wilfork, williams, knighton, deaderick, love
DE - jones, ninko, francis, bequette, cunningham(or replacement)
LB - mayo, hightower, spikes, johnson, tarpinian, white, fletcher(or replacement
CB - dennard, talib, (FA), dowling, (FA)
S - landry, mccourty, wilson, ebner, gregory
K - ghost
P - mesko
LS - aiken

what I like about this lineup is that defensively, the tools are in place to run a solid 3-4......which I thin kthe pats should shoot to go back to

the bigger ticket FA's will be wallace, landry, 1 FA CB, and knighton

 

[Sciz]

so as of this revision, my 2013 roster would look something like this:

QB - brady, mallett
RB - ridley, vereen, bolden, demps(who may also work out as a deep threat)
TE - gronk, hernandez, ballard, reed
OL - solder,mankins,wendell,connolly,vollmer(or FA replacement), cannon, macdonald, body, body
WR - wallace,lloyd,swopes,hixon,slater
DT - wilfork, williams, knighton, deaderick, love
DE - jones, ninko, francis, bequette, cunningham(or replacement)
LB - mayo, hightower, spikes, johnson, tarpinian, white, fletcher(or replacement
CB - dennard, talib, (FA), dowling, (FA)
S - landry, mccourty, wilson, ebner, gregory
K - ghost
P - mesko
LS - aiken

what I like about this lineup is that defensively, the tools are in place to run a solid 3-4......which I thin kthe pats should shoot to go back to

the bigger ticket FA's will be wallace, landry, 1 FA CB, and knighton

You're easily over the cap with Wallace, Vollmer, and Talib alone.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Folks. Is there any update on the Fanene cash (3.5 mill)
If that is retained surely we have a better chance of keeping some of our FA's.

I've asked around on twitter to guys who should know or be able to find out and not a one has responded. From what I understand based on what happened with the Colts and Corey Simon back in 2007 teams have a time limit within which to file a grievance to recover guaranteed money and there is no indication the team ever did (Colt's didn't either and he played in like 3 games ever for them before his arthritic condition set in and he collected $13M). I think they were pissed at themselves for screwing up in not waiting for all the medicals to come in before they signed him or not digging a little deeper on exam before allowing that ink to dry. This organization hates to be embarassed. So they said what they said to save face when in fact they probably knew that had no shot at recovering anything. Now some of it was deferred and whether they can try to withold that or negotiate something that saves both sides actual proceedings down the line remains to be seen. But I think the deferred amount was only $1.5M. And deferred just means they got to pay it out at a later date for cash purposes. It was still guaranteed and it hit the cap.

 

[IllegalContact]

You're easily over the cap with Wallace, Vollmer, and Talib alone.

the OL and DB markets have an abundance of players.....talib will likely agre to some kind of initial bodden type deal with a little extra cash....with who's out there, people aren't going to be banging down his door.....vollmer will likely not get that much, otherwise he will be gone......winds up changing the roster scheme a bit, but he's replaceable.

on top of that, I can pretty much guarantee that brady will not be a 21M cap hit.......especially not if he wants the team to spend some $$ on a WR, so that will come down.

that's a very reasonable FA haul for a year......there's plenty of wiggle room