Mangini: The Ravens did to the Patriots what the Patriots used to do to the Colts

[Palm Beach Pats Fan]

Eric Mangini was on to discuss the keys to the game on Mike and Mike this morning.

Basically he said that it was obvious from early on that roughing up wide receivers was NOT going to be called at all, and that this disrupted the Patriots offense. He specifically pointed out an early no call where Lloyd took a two-handed shot to the face as he was trying to get off the line, and other instances where there was a lot of contact beyond 5 yards.

Mangini was giving the view of a defensive coach, mind you, and he was NOT criticizing the officials, but rather pointing out that the Ravens were extremely wise to take note of this, and they effectively used it to their maximum advantage.

He further said that it was in fact very similar to his own approach, when he was on the Patriots staff, to defending the Colts receivers. This would include the playoff game where Bill Polian famously blew a gasket over the lack of calls for being too physical with Colts receivers.

We need to have in our arsenal a tactic to deal with this.

We could be Colts about it and whine for "better" officiating, or we could attempt to get our receivers better prepared to either avoid such contact or (my preference) to dish it out just as much.

That may require being less "smurfy" at wideout.

I posted this in the "NFL conspiracy" thread, so I'm sorry for the redundancy, but that thread is idiotic and is likely bound for the practice squad so I though it was worthwhile to discuss on its own merit.

 

[DocHoliday]

We had posters going around claiming the Ravens weren't being anymore physical with us than any other team.

There's a reason we didn't "make plays". Mangini is correct.

 

[PATSYLICIOUS]

Re: Mangini: The Ravens did to the Patriots what they used to do to the Colts

That's a pretty fair analogy IMO. You could tell by the Welker and Lloyd key drops, it interfered with our timing and the DB's were clearly in their heads. Just got punched in the mouth that day.

 

[Nunchucks]

Re: Mangini: The Ravens did to the Patriots what they used to do to the Colts

Patriots need an outside WR who can get physical with the DBs, a Dez Bryant kind of guy.

 

[condon84]

Re: Mangini: The Ravens did to the Patriots what they used to do to the Colts

When we beat the Colts, we outplayed them. Same thing with what happened with the Ravens outplaying us Sunday. People can rationalize it however they want to. It's not like the Ravens employed a new tactic we've never seen before. They just did it better than anybody. And our guys just didn't meet the challenge.

 

[PatsFan2]

Re: Mangini: The Ravens did to the Patriots what they used to do to the Colts

We were really soft on Offense Brady looked scared Lloyd is a pansy and AHern dissappeared after the Ravens starting peppering them after the catch. Welker was the only one who earned his money on Offense. We are now the Texans of the AFC East. Until we get a dynamic force on the outsides we always be one and done...what waste of a season.

 

[upstater1]

Re: Mangini: The Ravens did to the Patriots what they used to do to the Colts

Eric Mangini was on to discuss the keys to the game on Mike and Mike this morning.

Basically he said that it was obvious from early on that roughing up wide receivers was NOT going to be called at all, and that this disrupted the Patriots offense. He specifically pointed out an early no call where Lloyd took a two-handed shot to the face as he was trying to get off the line, and other instances where there was a lot of contact beyond 5 yards.

Mangini was giving the view of a defensive coach, mind you, and he was NOT criticizing the officials, but rather pointing out that the Ravens were extremely wise to take note of this, and they effectively used it to their maximum advantage.

He further said that it was in fact very similar to his own approach, when he was on the Patriots staff, to defending the Colts receivers. This would include the playoff game where Bill Polian famously blew a gasket over the lack of calls for being too physical with Colts receivers.

We need to have in our arsenal a tactic to deal with this.

We could be Colts about it and whine for "better" officiating, or we could attempt to get our receivers better prepared to either avoid such contact or (my preference) to dish it out just as much.

That may require being less "smurfy" at wideout.

I posted this in the "NFL conspiracy" thread, so I'm sorry for the redundancy, but that thread is idiotic and is likely bound for the practice squad so I though it was worthwhile to discuss on its own merit.

I didn't see any of it, but Dennard was called at one point for contact about 8 or 9 yards down field.

 

[MoneyFX]

Re: Mangini: The Ravens did to the Patriots what they used to do to the Colts

I'm basically saying what everyone else is saying here, get a physical WR with some speed that can fight for the football. Gronk is a physical receiver and he's a tight end. What the Patriots do at the WR position this offseason is going to be very interesting. So we just have to wait and see.

 

[olschool]

Re: Mangini: The Ravens did to the Patriots what they used to do to the Colts

The Pats are now the Colts of ten years ago, with the league leading offense and a soft defense.

The answer isn't just bigger wide receivers, it's having a defense that can do the same to the Ravens that they did to the Pats.

That being said, the Ravens are a dirty cheap shot team as bad as any Raiders team that ever was.

Who cares, it's all about winning right ? After all, Harbaugh said that Pollards knock out helmet hit to Ridley was football at it's best. I guess we need another head hunting Rodney to even the score.

 

[Kontradiction]

Re: Mangini: The Ravens did to the Patriots what they used to do to the Colts

AndyJohnson was going around claiming the Ravens weren't being anymore physical with us than any other team.

There's a reason we didn't "make plays". Mangini is correct.

I'm not sure what he was watching then because it was pretty apparent that they were being much more physical with our receivers than any team had been throughout the season. Mangini saw the film and saw the same thing. A big bodied, physical wide receiver that can threaten every level of the field to go with the TE's and (hopefully) Welker would be just what the doctor ordered for this offense.

 

[mayoclinic]

Re: Mangini: The Ravens did to the Patriots what they used to do to the Colts

Eric Mangini was on to discuss the keys to the game on Mike and Mike this morning.

Basically he said that it was obvious from early on that roughing up wide receivers was NOT going to be called at all, and that this disrupted the Patriots offense. He specifically pointed out an early no call where Lloyd took a two-handed shot to the face as he was trying to get off the line, and other instances where there was a lot of contact beyond 5 yards.

Mangini was giving the view of a defensive coach, mind you, and he was NOT criticizing the officials, but rather pointing out that the Ravens were extremely wise to take note of this, and they effectively used it to their maximum advantage.

He further said that it was in fact very similar to his own approach, when he was on the Patriots staff, to defending the Colts receivers. This would include the playoff game where Bill Polian famously blew a gasket over the lack of calls for being too physical with Colts receivers.

We need to have in our arsenal a tactic to deal with this.

We could be Colts about it and whine for "better" officiating, or we could attempt to get our receivers better prepared to either avoid such contact or (my preference) to dish it out just as much.

That may require being less "smurfy" at wideout.

I posted this in the "NFL conspiracy" thread, so I'm sorry for the redundancy, but that thread is idiotic and is likely bound for the practice squad so I though it was worthwhile to discuss on its own merit.

Obviously I want to see the Pats win. But as a football purist, I like letting teams play and being more physical, as long as its done consistently. The Ravens deserve credit for being the more physical team and doing what we used to do, and the Pats deserve some criticism for getting away from that style of play. The problem is when it's not officiated consistently, so that teams can't figure out the rules. But it's a bit ironic that BB has moved a bit away from his old winning formula, and that he's fallen victim to teams that do to the Pats what he used to do to the Bills, 49ers, Rams and Colts a long time ago.

 

[goheels22002]

Re: Mangini: The Ravens did to the Patriots what they used to do to the Colts

If this is the narrative about the Patriots going into the draft and free agency, you can bet that Bill Belichick and the brain trust will respond with a nastier team in 2013.

If there is anything about this team that we've learned is that it is an organism that isn't afraid to look everywhere for what it needs to become. Sometimes it works out, sometimes not, but they are not afraid to make the moves they need to get better. Or in this case, meaner.

We know the offense will be bigger and tougher with Ballard and Gronkowski at tight end. If they can add a big tough wideout to take Branch's spot, the passing game get's better with a single personnel move. Brian Hartline (Miami) or Dwayne Bowe (KC)?

On defense, the Pats need what they've always needed - 6'0 or taller corners who can be physical with bigger receivers. Unfortunately, there is not a stockpile of guys like that who don't cost a fortune.

 

[PatsFan2]

Re: Mangini: The Ravens did to the Patriots what they used to do to the Colts

If this is the narrative about the Patriots going into the draft and free agency, you can bet that Bill Belichick and the brain trust will respond with a nastier team in 2013.

If there is anything about this team that we've learned is that it is an organism that isn't afraid to look everywhere for what it needs to become. Sometimes it works out, sometimes not, but they are not afraid to make the moves they need to get better. Or in this case, meaner.

We know the offense will be bigger and tougher with Ballard and Gronkowski at tight end. If they can add a big tough wideout to take Branch's spot, the passing game get's better with a single personnel move. Brian Hartline (Miami) or Dwayne Bowe (KC)?

On defense, the Pats need what they've always needed - 6'0 or taller corners who can be physical with bigger receivers. Unfortunately, there is not a stockpile of guys like that who don't cost a fortune.

That's what you have to do when you don't have a clue about drafting them...at such times you can't get something for nothing.

 

[upstater1]

Re: Mangini: The Ravens did to the Patriots what they used to do to the Colts

Obviously I want to see the Pats win. But as a football purist, I like letting teams play and being more physical, as long as its done consistently. The Ravens deserve credit for being the more physical team and doing what we used to do, and the Pats deserve some criticism for getting away from that style of play. The problem is when it's not officiated consistently, so that teams can't figure out the rules. But it's a bit ironic that BB has moved a bit away from his old winning formula, and that he's fallen victim to teams that do to the Pats what he used to do to the Bills, 49ers, Rams and Colts a long time ago.

How has he gone away from his winning formula? You think he doesn't want a shut down defense? On offense, they did put new emphasis on the running game this year. I don't get it. The only critique is that the defense may not be good enough, but to say that's by design is questionable, especially given all the resources they've devoted to it (Hightower, C Jones, Cunningham, McCourty, Chung, T Wilson, Mayo, Spikes).

 

[Palm Beach Pats Fan]

Re: Mangini: The Ravens did to the Patriots what they used to do to the Colts

The Pats are now the Colts of ten years ago, with the league leading offense and a soft defense.

No, the Patriot offense is like the Colts offense of 7-9 years ago, with receivers who do not respond well to contact.

We are nothing like the Colts defensively, who relied on small quick D linemen, small, quick linebackers, and soft zone coverage.

Thank God our approach to playing defense is completely different than the Dungy Tampa 2 schemes.

 

[mayoclinic]

Re: Mangini: The Ravens did to the Patriots what they used to do to the Colts

How has he gone away from his winning formula? You think he doesn't want a shut down defense? On offense, they did put new emphasis on the running game this year. I don't get it. The only critique is that the defense may not be good enough, but to say that's by design is questionable, especially given all the resources they've devoted to it (Hightower, C Jones, Cunningham, McCourty, Chung, T Wilson, Mayo, Spikes).

Is it the players, or is it the approach? I'm not sure. We used to be a very physical defense, back in the old days. The last guy we had on our D who was really a "badass" was Meriweather, and we cut him. He had his problems, but he did bring some attitude and toughness. Talib brought a little of that, but it seemed missing when he left.

I found it very telling that none other than Dean Pees was the DC of that Ravens defense. Pees was the poster child for soft BBDB defense when he was here. But was that his choice, or because that was what BB asked of him? It seems like he was perfectly comfortable playing a more aggressive, physical style yesterday. And I don't think that Bernard Pollard is a special talent. He's just a tough, nasty dude. How many tough, nasty dudes do we have on either side of the ball? Mankins, maybe Gronk and Vollmer on offense. We have lots of very good players on defense, and some of them are fairly physical, but in terms of pure physical punishment and nastiness? Brandon Spikes is really the only guy who stands out. Remember how Rodney was reviled as the "dirtiest" player in the NFL? He was a headhunter, and sent a message. Who in our defense sends that kind of "don't mess with me" message any more?

We've loaded up on team captains and talent. I'd like to see us get some really bad ass dudes. They don't have to be high draft picks. But they have to be really physical guys, who won't back down from anyone. Because what I saw was that the other team hit us in the mouth, and we backed down, just like we used to make other teams back down. That happened to us against the Steelers last year, too, and to some extent against the 49ers this year, at least for 3 quarters. That's too big a weakness to be ignored. JMHO.

 

[ivanvamp]

Re: Mangini: The Ravens did to the Patriots what they used to do to the Colts

I'm not sure what he was watching then because it was pretty apparent that they were being much more physical with our receivers than any team had been throughout the season. Mangini saw the film and saw the same thing. A big bodied, physical wide receiver that can threaten every level of the field to go with the TE's and (hopefully) Welker would be just what the doctor ordered for this offense.

Those guys just grow on trees, don't they?

The guy I've said all along I want the Pats to get is Larry Fitzgerald. Big, fast, unbelievable hands.....he's everything you'd want in a receiver. Unfortunately, he's also on another team and he has a huge contract. So getting him would cost the Pats a ton for the trade, but also they'd have to cut some guys to make room for him salary-cap-wise.

IOW, not gonna happen, unfortunately. Now, if they could find someone like that in the draft, who actually will pan out......maybe.

 

[Palm Beach Pats Fan]

Re: Mangini: The Ravens did to the Patriots what they used to do to the Colts

The last guy we had on our D who was really a "badass" was Meriweather, and we cut him.

...in terms of pure physical punishment and nastiness? Brandon Spikes is really the only guy who stands out.

I think that both Wilfork and Spikes are about as badass as you can be, without risking stupid penalties.

I would doubt whether many teams have a collection of linebackers that deliver more "blast him to the ground" tackles than ours do.

But if you want to talk safeties, defensive backs, and defensive ends, then yes we could use some meanness.

Bernard Pollard played a lot like I hoped Patrick Chung would play, when we drafted him. Unfortunately you can't deliver a hit on somebody when you find yourself woefully out of position on a regular basis.

 

[JMC00]

Sign Armon Armstead, Draft Matt Elam and DJ Swearinger, Resign Talib.

Run a 3 safety system and let Elam and Swearinger lay wood.

 

[mayoclinic]

Sign Armon Armstead, Draft Matt Elam and DJ Swearinger, Resign Talib.

Run a 3 safety system and let Elam and Swearinger lay wood.

That would be a darn good approach. Darn good. Bravo.