Is Brady actually choking?

[Tunescribe]

Early in his career, Brady appeared to be an amazingly clutch QB. Maybe this was a small-sample-size illusion. Maybe this was an artifact of him being better in the kinds of shotgun sets used in 2-minute drills. Maybe, in fact, there is no such thing as clutchness.

But there definitely is such a thing as choking. And in recent postseasons, both by the numbers and the eye test, Brady would appear to be doing it.

Counterarguments might start: He's only one member of the team. Opponents are better in the postseason. Opponents gameplan more aggressively in the postseason. And the sample size is again small.

Still, I lean to the theory that part of the problem is actual choking. Whether he's choking more in the face of pressure games or just in the face of excellent gameplans, I couldn't say. But both mentally and in his throwing accuracy, Brady seems to be way off his usual standards, in one big game after another.

What a sorry excuse for a thread. Here is one counterargument you failed to consider: You just don't understand the game.

 

[jcdavey]

just substitute brady out and imagine that game and those stats with peyton manning

and then ask yourself if it was a choke


the way i see it, the tipped int was a fluke, those happen, the last int was a desperate heave in garbage time

the real culprit i'd say is welker.....

 

[Snake Eyes]

What a sorry excuse for a thread. Here is one counterargument you failed to consider: You just don't understand the game.

That's not an argument, that's basically just name-calling. If you understand the game so much please explain why he's wrong.

 

[patfan#1]

Brady made some critical errors during the game.

1. Before the half, he should not have tried to run rather just throw the ball away. He wasn't going anywhere. Plenty of time for 2 plays into the end zone.

2. Same play, he should have immediately called time out when play over. Again, time for two plays. If Pats were playing for a field goal then they deserved to lose.

3. Indecision to take off and run on 4th down play in second half a killer. Pass thrown had no chance whatsoever of being completed.

We got 3 points but perhaps left another 11 on the table. Failure to execute in scoring territory time after time spelled defeat. Just not our day.

 

[Fencer]

the way i see it, the tipped int was a fluke, those happen, the last int was a desperate heave in garbage time

I agree that the INTs should be disregarded. But even if that takes the score up from 13 to 16, that's still not a lot for an offense that had been putting up twice is many points routinely with the same personnel.

 

[fair catch fryar]

Early in his career, Brady appeared to be an amazingly clutch QB. Maybe this was a small-sample-size illusion. Maybe this was an artifact of him being better in the kinds of shotgun sets used in 2-minute drills. Maybe, in fact, there is no such thing as clutchness.

But there definitely is such a thing as choking. And in recent postseasons, both by the numbers and the eye test, Brady would appear to be doing it.

Counterarguments might start: He's only one member of the team. Opponents are better in the postseason. Opponents gameplan more aggressively in the postseason. And the sample size is again small.

Still, I lean to the theory that part of the problem is actual choking. Whether he's choking more in the face of pressure games or just in the face of excellent gameplans, I couldn't say. But both mentally and in his throwing accuracy, Brady seems to be way off his usual standards, in one big game after another.

You claim there is no such thing as "clutchness" then try to claim that "choking" exists. They are either both accepted as ideas or they don't "exist". I believe in both and I also believe Brady has both qualities. I guess he is only human after all.

 

[vyrago]

Teams finally know how to play against Brady; they know his strengths and weaknesses well. That's the disadvantage of being a highly experienced QB. I don't think Brady has lost much as a QB, it's just that our opponents have a deeper understanding of how he plays, what he does well, and what he does not do so well.

He did lose his long-time quarterback coach-tutor Tom Martinez this year.

 

[IllegalContact]

What a sorry excuse for a thread. Here is one counterargument you failed to consider: You just don't understand the game.

if not choke, then what?

this is what happens when you have a 53 man roster pin so much on one guy

the teams worst offensive output of the season against a defense that was worse than the pats.

- the running game was ok.....there were plenty of 2nd and short

the problem was execution on the part of the pats and it all starts and ends with brady........unlike in the SB where you could actually pick a single play that killed (in this case, the welker non-catch)

the defense was OK, though it did not make a single noteworthy play. It played well enough for the pats to win. the only reason they gave up 21 in the 2nd half is because the offense did nothing but keep giving the ball back

there's plenty good about the pats, and their best chance to win is still with brady, but the simple fact is that teams whose MVP is a 35 year old QB don't win SB's

 

[SHOWTIME15]

He did lose his long-time quarterback coach-tutor Tom Martinez this year.

he looked the same last night as he did in 09' against the ravens, in 10' against the Jets. he looked great last week against Houston. this has nothing to do with Martinez. This has everything to do with the defenses he faces - he has trouble against some teams like baltimore.

 

[Chopblock CB]

Brady made some critical errors during the game.

1. Before the half, he should not have tried to run rather just throw the ball away. He wasn't going anywhere. Plenty of time for 2 plays into the end zone.

2. Same play, he should have immediately called time out when play over. Again, time for two plays. If Pats were playing for a field goal then they deserved to lose.

3. Indecision to take off and run on 4th down play in second half a killer. Pass thrown had no chance whatsoever of being completed.

We got 3 points but perhaps left another 11 on the table. Failure to execute in scoring territory time after time spelled defeat. Just not our day.

You are right on with everything here. Like I mentioned in another thread, Brady Pulled a Bledsoe yesterday, meaning, that he did amazing between the defensive goal line and the offensive 20. The 400+ yards of offense is a testament to that factoid, however, when he hit the red zone...got very little. What was up with not being able to execute 3rd and short all day? Some really stupid play calling!! Where was the hurry-up offense? This is something that creates a squad wide focus and rhythm...stupid coaching?
I can't blame Brady for the dropped passes or his receivers not getting out of bounds, but ya, I can point a finger at him for poor clock management, bad short passes to wide open receivers and totally missing wide open receivers downfield. Brady was off, this I saw in pregame warmup.
How Brady looks in pregame warm ups is a tell tale sign when it comes to Tom and he really didn't look good even in warmups. He has 2 gametime looks...The "Totally Focused" look and the "deer in the headlights" look. IMO, yesterday he had the latter of the two looks. We talk about "Body Language" when it comes to Brady and from the time he came out on the field with Mallet leading the way running strong and Brady just non chalontly jogging up the field, the way he just had his hands in his handwarmer most of warmups, throwing the odd ball here and there but mostly just going through the motions.
I turned to my buddy and said, "I've seen this before....this is gonna be a long day.". You could tell in the first few series that he was off...not crisp...indecisive...almost like he's thinking too much rather than just going with the flow and doing the instinctive things.
When you're at the game, you can see things you don't on TV. Brady had many an open receiver in the first half that he just never picked up on. I can remember Branch being WIDE open and Brady just dumped it off. Sorry Folks...Brady..the team leader, was just not himself and you know what some say..."As Brady goes, so goes the Team"...and they are going Golfing in Hawaii

 

[borg]

The "original" Brady spread the ball around to any JAG pass catcher on the field. These days, we are told you have to earn his trust before you get a sniff of the ball. Yesterday, did any TE option not named Hernandez get a look? You would think with the TE roster build it would be an advantage to spread it around some. Nope.
The Patriots have become too star centric limiting Brady to 3 options with a hint of Branch at times. Unfortunately, not one has wheels to get open without scheme. It would be nice to see a real NFL beast running a crossing pattern occasionally.

Bottom line. The Pats fielded a move the chains offense yesterday that requires Brady to string a lot of passes together. The O line lost the LOS battle which forced Brady to carry the burden, but the team just couldn't put together those 12-15 plays drives that were needed. They failed on 2nd down which forced shot gun on 3rd and Baltimore was more than capable of limiting Brady's 3 targets.
And there goes Lloyd, diving again.....probably trying to get on the bus

 

[Tunescribe]

if not choke, then what?

this is what happens when you have a 53 man roster pin so much on one guy

the teams worst offensive output of the season against a defense that was worse than the pats.

- the running game was ok.....there were plenty of 2nd and short

the problem was execution on the part of the pats and it all starts and ends with brady........unlike in the SB where you could actually pick a single play that killed (in this case, the welker non-catch)

the defense was OK, though it did not make a single noteworthy play. It played well enough for the pats to win. the only reason they gave up 21 in the 2nd half is because the offense did nothing but keep giving the ball back

there's plenty good about the pats, and their best chance to win is still with brady, but the simple fact is that teams whose MVP is a 35 year old QB don't win SB's

The idea that a Hall of Fame quarterback with MANY playoff wins under his belt (including last week) suddenly can't handle the pressure and "chokes away" a chance to win is pure nonsense. It's a team game and if you want to call that a cop-out, so be it. You need all hands on deck in championship games and the Pats were short-handed this time around. No, Brady was not at the top of his game last night but you can blame several others along with him for poor execution, including Wes Welker. Nevertheless, the Pats still out-gained their opponent while amassing 428 yards (including Brady's 320 passing). Far from a "choke job." Plenty of points were left on the field and laying it all at the feet of one guy is myopic at best.

 

[RhodyPatriot]

The "original" Brady spread the ball around to any JAG pass catcher on the field. These days, we are told you have to earn his trust before you get a sniff of the ball. Yesterday, did any TE option not named Hernandez get a look? You would think with the TE roster build it would be an advantage to spread it around some. Nope.
The Patriots have become too star centric limiting Brady to 3 options with a hint of Branch at times. Unfortunately, not one has wheels to get open without scheme. It would be nice to see a real NFL beast running a crossing pattern occasionally.

Bottom line. The Pats fielded a move the chains offense yesterday that requires Brady to string a lot of passes together. The O line lost the LOS battle which forced Brady to carry the burden, but the team just couldn't put together those 12-15 plays drives that were needed. They failed on 2nd down which forced shot gun on 3rd and Baltimore was more than capable of limiting Brady's 3 targets.
And there goes Lloyd, diving again.....probably trying to get on the bus

Agree with your analysis vis-a-vis Brady getting too finicky about who he's throwing the ball to.
Disagree about the O line. Numerous times yesterday the Patriots had 2nd down and short and Brady was in shotgun trying (and failing all too often) to throw the ball ten yds down the field.
The offense got completely out of balance yesterday.
Far too much passing and not enough running. When this offense gets too far out of balance they lose games.
When will they ever learn????

 

[RobertWeathers]

Its a young mans game.

Brady might get back and win another SB, but look whose sitting home? Manning and Brady are both mid 30's. Flacco is 27 and Kapernick is in his 2nd season.

When I see Brady sitting on the bench with his head down, I have to think that the hits are taking their toll physically and psychologically.

I'm not quite ready to have Brady fill out his AARP card but you can count on two hands the number of QBs at 36 or older that have reached the SBs.

1970-Morrall/Unitis
1983- Plunkett
1997, 1998- Elway
2008- Kurt Warner
2002- Gannon
1976- Tarkenton

There may be some the others, but my point is that there are not many.

Need more offensive and defensive talent around TB so he doesn't need to throw up 50 passes in a playoff game. Sheesh.

 

[reflexblue]

The idea that a Hall of Fame quarterback with MANY playoff wins under his belt (including last week) suddenly can't handle the pressure and "chokes away" a chance to win is pure nonsense. It's a team game and if you want to call that a cop-out, so be it. You need all hands on deck in championship games and the Pats were short-handed this time around. No, Brady was not at the top of his game last night but you can blame several others along with him for poor execution, including Wes Welker. Nevertheless, the Pats still out-gained their opponent while amassing 428 yards (including Brady's 320 passing). Far from a "choke job." Plenty of points were left on the field and laying it all at the feet of one guy is myopic at best.

I posted last week that for once i want to see all the key plays healthy and not have to sit there and say if we only had so and so. (The pats probably would have won last years SB if Gronk was healthy)That if we lost we lost with all hands on deck. This has been a recurring theme for years. Yesterday we were missing Gonk, C Jones, Love, Talib, Edelman, and a few others. While this health issue goes back to the SB days maybe those teams were just so good they could overcome the loss of most of the starting backfield for example back in 03 or 04.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

While this health issue goes back to the SB days maybe those teams were just so good they could overcome the loss of most of the starting backfield for example back in 03 or 04.

Don't forget that you could just beat the snot out of receivers back then. Doesn't work so well now.

 

[reflexblue]

Don't forget that you could just beat the snot out of receivers back then. Doesn't work so well now.

That works both ways the ravens aren't the colts.

 

[BadMoFo]

I'm not quite ready to have Brady fill out his AARP card but you can count on one hand the number of QBs at 36 or older that have reached the SBs.

1970-Morrall/Unitis
1983- Plunkett
1997, 1998- Elway
2008- Kurt Warner
2002- Gannon
1976- Tarkenton

There may be some the others, but my point is that there are not many.

Need more offensive and defensive talent around TB so he doesn't need to throw up 50 passes in a playoff game. Sheesh.

What more offensive talent is going to make him better?

He's got one of the better running games with some very young, talented runners, he's got the best tight ends in the NFL, one of the best, if not the best, slot receiver in the NFL. He's got a better than average outside receiver that makes some of the most difficult catches you can make, and his line pretty much gives him as much time as he wants.

You can't expect him to have a HOFer at every position.

 

[PATRlOT]

Lock thread, ban OP.

 

[BadMoFo]

Like the original poster said, a lot of this does fall on the quarterback. Brady went from Montana to Marino since our last Super Bowl win, and I think it's cause he's playing scared.