Time For Change

[IllegalContact]

The Patriots need to do with Brady what the Broncos did with John Elway late in his career. Get him a stud running back who takes the pressure off Brady to have to do it all by himself. He can't any longer. Tom Brady and these Patriots cannot beat tough physical teams.

difference is, elway still had the do or die warrior mentality until the very end.....brady just seems too.....I don't know.....fragile looking out there

it just looks like the same coupld of bullies come around every year, pull the pats collective underwear over their head and then tell them that they'll be back.

it's interesting.....both SB teams have 'cheap' QB's......guys on their rookie contracts or something close to it.....3 of the final 4 were in that situation.....the last time the pats won an SB, brady was a 5M cap hit


maybe the day of the 20M/yr QB is over

 

[DC_Patriot]

So where were all these Debbie Downers saying "we have no edge in the playoffs" or "we can't beat physical teams" after the Texans game?

We didn't lose because Brady lost his edge.

We didn't lose because we're a "finesse" team, whatever the hell that is.

We got outplayed, plain and simple. The Ravens were the better team tonight. No more excuses. It's time to start thinking about next year. I fully believe this nucleus can win the Super Bowl, and so did almost all of you before tonight.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Message to the moron contingent, we don't need less talent we need more. And it would help if it's durable. We lost tonight because we play on a margin driven in part by the value model. Brady is the least of this teams problems. When we lose what other little elite talent or as close to it as we've come of late at critical positions we don't have the pure talent to overcome an opponent who might struggle in season with less depth but if healthy in the post season poses a tougher matchup.

Branch was our 3rd WR on the field tonight. Welker and Lloyd both had drops but there was no alternative but to keep targeting the same two guys. And Hernandez, who simply isn't a $7M TE when not in tandem with another one. Both of whom shape an offense that struggles in their absence. The running game was supposed to counter some of that but for all it's flashes it still struggles when the chips are down. And Vereen's speed and receiving ability that might have been presumed to cause the Raven's D problems simply never was apparently never part of the game plan. The plan itself may be part of the problem because we react and rely so much on scheme it almost renders us incapable of simply stepping up and making plays. Some of that is lack of talent and some of it is over reliance on scheme. The more Belichick coached up that D the worse it played.

Brady had some time at times but no one who could get open. The defense was so worried about Flacco going deep they couldn't stop the run or the intermediate throws that converted 3rd and long. Once Talib went out they just wilted. I think it was one of the more poorly coached games I've seen in a while.

I agree it's time for a change, but that change involves addition rather than subtraction. They need another outside WR who can get open not via scheme but via talent and speed. Probably need to draft that guy since you have $15M per tied up in the TE's. Need to figure out whether to extend or replace Talib with equal or better and more durable talent. Need to figure out what you're doing with the young backs and commit to them or move on. Can't run a two TE offense when you often don't have two available talented enough to. Can't run 3 or 4 wide when you don't have the horses to. Can't count on the running game when you still can't run even when they know you are.

We became one dimentional again, the same thing Belichick supposedly tasked McDaniels last off season with eliminating the possibility of ever happening again. Guys are going to drop balls and even fumble them on occasion. You have to be able to overcome that. We still lack the talent to. Opponents are going to make plays but you have to be able to make stops too. And if you aren't getting any pressure you have to stop banging your head against the wall and change it up. We didn't on either side of the ball and so we end up with the post season headache again.

 

[Bobs My Uncle]

And;

• tackles who can collapse the pocket,
• ends who can rush the passer,
• DB's who can locate the ball, &
• linebackers who can cover tight ends.

There's quite a few on that wish list.

Indeed and, the truly worrisome thing about this list is ..... BB (a defensive mastermind?) has been re-building this defense for the last 7 years and is still a ways away.

 

[PATSYLICIOUS]

Not working? This team just went to the SB and now came a game away from the SB. And who knows what else if our biggest weapon doesn't get hurt BOTH years at the worst time.

This defense is being rebuilt, the secondary was in absolute shambles last year and we had a so-so front 7 outside of Wilfork/Mayo especially once Carter went down. This year we fielded a solid secondary when full strength and a nasty front 7 until Jones/Talib went down. Overall I feel the improvement from 2011 to 2012 was encouraging aside from a stretch of 3 drives. If we can add one or two more guys to this defense (or actually keep our starting CB's healthy), and progress from some of the key contributors on D that have been in the league for under 4 seasons, we may take that next step. Not sure what 'change' you are talking about but let's not overreact to one poor outing.

 

[patsox23]

A LOT of terrible posts in this thread. I agree with the last two. People whining about "finesse" and Brady strike me as 20-somethings or teens who have grown accustomed to winning Super Bowls every year, not realizing that it's HARD. Your childish sense of entitlement and frantic level of panic is actually a really good barometer of just how under-appreciated and historic their run over the last decade-plus has been.

We lost a game tonight and won't be going to the Super Bowl. It sucks. It's a bitter pill. But let's not be so overreactive and petulant about it.

Congrats to the Ravens. F off, I hope you lose.

 

[patsox23]

Not working? This team just went to the SB and now came a game away from the SB. And who knows what else if our biggest weapon doesn't get hurt BOTH years at the worst time.

This defense is being rebuilt, the secondary was in absolute shambles last year and we had a so-so front 7. This year we fielded a solid secondary when full strength and a nasty front 7 until Jones/Talib went down. Overall I feel the improvement from 2011 to 2012 was encouraging aside from a stretch of 3 drives. If we can add one or two more guys to this defense (or actually keep our starting CB's healthy), and progress from some of the key contributors on D that have been in the league for under 4 seasons, we may take that next step. Not sure what 'change' you are talking about but let's not overreact to one poor outing.

What he said.

 

[jcrack]

difference is, elway still had the do or die warrior mentality until the very end.....brady just seems too.....I don't know.....fragile looking out there

it just looks like the same coupld of bullies come around every year, pull the pats collective underwear over their head and then tell them that they'll be back.

it's interesting.....both SB teams have 'cheap' QB's......guys on their rookie contracts or something close to it.....3 of the final 4 were in that situation.....the last time the pats won an SB, brady was a 5M cap hit


maybe the day of the 20M/yr QB is over

All these other teams are always riled up and feed off their coaches/veteran players. NE always tries to out-smart their opponents. Doesnt work like that anymore. You need some deep threats on O and a very physical pass rush/defense. This quick offense with 5 yard passes doesnt work in the playoffs. Changes definitely need to be made.

 

[Bobs My Uncle]

Message to the moron contingent, we don't need less talent we need more. And it would help if it's durable. We lost tonight because we play on a margin driven in part by the value model. Brady is the least of this teams problems. When we lose what other little elite talent or as close to it as we've come of late at critical positions we don't have the pure talent to overcome an opponent who might struggle in season with less depth but if healthy in the post season poses a tougher matchup.

Branch was our 3rd WR on the field tonight. Welker and Lloyd both had drops but there was no alternative but to keep targeting the same two guys. And Hernandez, who simply isn't a $7M TE when not in tandem with another one. Both of whom shape an offense that struggles in their absence. The running game was supposed to counter some of that but for all it's flashes it still struggles when the chips are down. And Vereen's speed and receiving ability that might have been presumed to cause the Raven's D problems simply never was apparently never part of the game plan. The plan itself may be part of the problem because we react and rely so much on scheme it almost renders us incapable of simply stepping up and making plays. Some of that is lack of talent and some of it is over reliance on scheme. The more Belichick coached up that D the worse it played.

Brady had some time at times but no one who could get open. The defense was so worried about Flacco going deep they couldn't stop the run or the intermediate throws that converted 3rd and long. Once Talib went out they just wilted. I think it was one of the more poorly coached games I've seen in a while.

I agree it's time for a change, but that change involves addition rather than subtraction. They need another outside WR who can get open not via scheme but via talent and speed. Probably need to draft that guy since you have $15M per tied up in the TE's. Need to figure out whether to extend or replace Talib with equal or better and more durable talent. Need to figure out what you're doing with the young backs and commit to them or move on. Can't run a two TE offense when you often don't have two available talented enough to. Can't run 3 or 4 wide when you don't have the horses to. Can't count on the running game when you still can't run even when they know you are.

We became one dimentional again, the same thing Belichick supposedly tasked McDaniels last off season with eliminating the possibility of ever happening again. Guys are going to drop balls and even fumble them on occasion. You have to be able to overcome that. We still lack the talent to. Opponents are going to make plays but you have to be able to make stops too. And if you aren't getting any pressure you have to stop banging your head against the wall and change it up. We didn't on either side of the ball and so we end up with the post season headache again.

Brady may be the least of the Pats problems but he is not without fault and blame.

Not only that but the need to field better players as you state, is very largely restricted by Brady's very large cap charge which is why we end up seeing players such as Branch and Cole and Gregory and Arrington and Francis playing out there.

 

[IllegalContact]

I'll take a stab at this.....the texans were to the pats what the pats were to the ravens.....someone who got outplayed and outcoached in every single aspect.......clean sweep

we lost because brady played scared........and when he plays scared, the est of them play scared.......he's a great leader until someone hits him a few times, then he goes uh-oh and heads for the hills.

they lost because we got outplayed in every way possible......they lost because they didn't even try to use what worked so well against the texans. the defense did great in the first half except that the offense was incapable of taking advantage, and then the offense got shut out in the 2nd half.

someone mentioned the pats should get an RB like elway had in the end....why? they won't use him right.

the pats would have won the game if they tried to run the ball 50 times....the run worked well enough to do just that......but everything has to pass through brady because he gets paid so damned much. brady makes more than the 3 other AFCC/NFCC starting QB's combined.

So where were all these Debbie Downers saying "we have no edge in the playoffs" or "we can't beat physical teams" after the Texans game?

We didn't lose because Brady lost his edge.

We didn't lose because we're a "finesse" team, whatever the hell that is.

We got outplayed, plain and simple. The Ravens were the better team tonight. No more excuses. It's time to start thinking about next year. I fully believe this nucleus can win the Super Bowl, and so did almost all of you before tonight.

 

[IllegalContact]

All these other teams are always riled up and feed off their coaches/veteran players. NE always tries to out-smart their opponents. Doesnt work like that anymore. You need some deep threats on O and a very physical pass rush/defense. This quick offense with 5 yard passes doesnt work in the playoffs. Changes definitely need to be made.

out smart works pretty well.....but the last few years, it runs into problems every time a defense shows up to play rough.....the ravens defense literally did the only thing it could.........hit as hard and as often as possible.


the pats weren't even close in this one, and the 2nd half was absolutely brutal

 

[jcrack]

Btw did Flacco even get sacked tonight? The defense wasnt great but the offense gave them barely any time to rest in the 2nd half. Its pretty crazy that the Pats didnt even score a FG in a 2nd half of a playoff game. Weird game.

 

[Brady_to_Moss]

Btw did Flacco even get sacked tonight? The defense wasnt great but the offense gave them barely any time to rest in the 2nd half. Its pretty crazy that the Pats didnt even score a FG in a 2nd half of a playoff game. Weird game.

yes he did get sacked..ninko

 

[MoLewisrocks]

difference is, elway still had the do or die warrior mentality until the very end.....brady just seems too.....I don't know.....fragile looking out there

it just looks like the same coupld of bullies come around every year, pull the pats collective underwear over their head and then tell them that they'll be back.

it's interesting.....both SB teams have 'cheap' QB's......guys on their rookie contracts or something close to it.....3 of the final 4 were in that situation.....the last time the pats won an SB, brady was a 5M cap hit


maybe the day of the 20M/yr QB is over

His cap hit this season was $8M. Against a cap that was $48M higher than in 2004. Ryan and Flacco weren't on cheap rookie deals, they were on expensive ones about to get more expensive. Ryan is finishing up a 6 year $66M deal with a cap hit of $10M. Flacco is finishing up a 5 year $30M deal with a cap hit of $8M. Believe me, both are going to get paid and neither is going to be replaced by some cheap pistol QB. Both of whom will be lucky to last long enough to get their first big deal in 2015.

Brady wasn't the problem tonight. It was the same problem that has dogged his team for some time now. Lack of sufficient talent compounded by multiple injuries on both sides of the ball to be able match up with healthy playoff caliber competition.

 

[PatriotReign]

Draft Ziggy Anash to improve the pass rush to pair alongside Chandler Jones. Also look for a coverage linebacker, defensive tackle, cornerback/safety. In free agency I'd like to see an attempt to get a premier outside wide receiver and possibly look at getting Laron Landry. Gregory is garbage and we don't know what we have in Wilson or Ebner right now.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Brady may be the least of the Pats problems but he is not without fault and blame.

Not only that but the need to field better players as you state, is very largely restricted by Brady's very large cap charge which is why we end up seeing players such as Branch and Cole and Gregory and Arrington and Francis playing out there.

Poor drafting and development has a lot more to do with it than Brady's cap hit which has always remained manageable. This year it was $8M. Screwing up the Welker situation and $20M in dead cap mistakes cost them a lot more against the cap.

 

[Soadisthebest]

they aren't going to win the super bowl every year so just get over it and stop overreacting. they didn't lose because they're soft or brady played scared. obviously its disappointing that they lost but this isn't madden where you go 19-0 every season.

 

[Banjo]

Trade Tom Brady!

Tank for Johnny Manziel!

 

[IllegalContact]

Message to the moron contingent, we don't need less talent we need more. And it would help if it's durable. We lost tonight because we play on a margin driven in part by the value model. Brady is the least of this teams problems. When we lose what other little elite talent or as close to it as we've come of late at critical positions we don't have the pure talent to overcome an opponent who might struggle in season with less depth but if healthy in the post season poses a tougher matchup.

Branch was our 3rd WR on the field tonight. Welker and Lloyd both had drops but there was no alternative but to keep targeting the same two guys. And Hernandez, who simply isn't a $7M TE when not in tandem with another one. Both of whom shape an offense that struggles in their absence. The running game was supposed to counter some of that but for all it's flashes it still struggles when the chips are down. And Vereen's speed and receiving ability that might have been presumed to cause the Raven's D problems simply never was apparently never part of the game plan. The plan itself may be part of the problem because we react and rely so much on scheme it almost renders us incapable of simply stepping up and making plays. Some of that is lack of talent and some of it is over reliance on scheme. The more Belichick coached up that D the worse it played.

Brady had some time at times but no one who could get open. The defense was so worried about Flacco going deep they couldn't stop the run or the intermediate throws that converted 3rd and long. Once Talib went out they just wilted. I think it was one of the more poorly coached games I've seen in a while.

I agree it's time for a change, but that change involves addition rather than subtraction. They need another outside WR who can get open not via scheme but via talent and speed. Probably need to draft that guy since you have $15M per tied up in the TE's. Need to figure out whether to extend or replace Talib with equal or better and more durable talent. Need to figure out what you're doing with the young backs and commit to them or move on. Can't run a two TE offense when you often don't have two available talented enough to. Can't run 3 or 4 wide when you don't have the horses to. Can't count on the running game when you still can't run even when they know you are.

We became one dimentional again, the same thing Belichick supposedly tasked McDaniels last off season with eliminating the possibility of ever happening again. Guys are going to drop balls and even fumble them on occasion. You have to be able to overcome that. We still lack the talent to. Opponents are going to make plays but you have to be able to make stops too. And if you aren't getting any pressure you have to stop banging your head against the wall and change it up. We didn't on either side of the ball and so we end up with the post season headache again.

well.......doen't help to have near 20M tied up on a QB.......the other 3 final 4 teams don't have that and have more to spend in other places.

sorry, attitude reflect leadership, and and the leadership was scared today.......when that happens, there must be an option in place to replace the leadership......somehow, the pats need to develop their next QB

fact is that the pats are getting everything they can out of the make up of this roster.

it's not bad to have a consistent playoff team...I mean you can't get to the SB unless you make the playoffs, but that's what it seems like they have......a soft team much like the colts were under dungy.....

part of the problem is the division........the pats go 6-0 vs the division, they only need to 6-4 against the rest of the leagu eand they can get home field through the playoffs.....except now the ravens thing gillette is their house

 

[IndianPat]

Not having Talib and Gronk was huge for this game. Baltimore came to play and we came to play too for 2 1/8 quarters until Welker drops it.
Not sure how much of a change is needed. I say pay Talib and get him on the squad for a few years. You dont get to acquire a stud CB like him without showing him the money. Our efforts to develop a CB like him have spanned several seasons without success.
To BB's credit he realized last year the need for a WR and an additional TE. You cant run a two TE offense if one TE goes down. He signed numerous TE's and WR's to camp this year. But, alas, we enter a playoff game with Branch and nobody competitive to take Gronk's place.