Pats' last 3 freshman classes

[patrickscribe]

I have to think that Floyd Reese coming into the front office in early 2009 helped with player evaluation. He had a great track record with the Titans.

Or is there a bigger factor?

 

[Armchair Quarterback]

This team has been rebuilt on the fly, and the Pats have not missed a beat... Kudos to BB and staff...

Where are the naysayers who criticize this team and their draft(s)????

At best the draft is a crapshoot...

The 4 drafts before these 3 were criticized for good reason. Calling it a crapshoot makes it sound like there's no skill involved and it's all the luck of the dice, it's more than that.

 

[fnordcircle]

The 4 drafts before these 3 were criticized for good reason. Calling it a crapshoot makes it sound like there's no skill involved and it's all the luck of the dice, it's more than that.

Unless you can see into someone's soul there's simply no way to tell if they will continue to apply themselves once they've gotten their first NFL contract. Or how they will respond to the Patriots culture and systems. You can try to find analogs in their experiences in life and HS/college football but there is still enough unknown that skill can't cover.

If it was simply about skill the Patriots would have drafted Jennings instead of Jackson, MJD instead of Maroney, etc, etc.

 

[NormZauchin]

Unless you can see into someone's soul there's simply no way to tell if they will continue to apply themselves once they've gotten their first NFL contract. Or how they will respond to the Patriots culture and systems. You can try to find analogs in their experiences in life and HS/college football but there is still enough unknown that skill can't cover.

If it was simply about skill the Patriots would have drafted Jennings instead of Jackson, MJD instead of Maroney, etc, etc.

What we don't know, and probably will never know, is what draft choices were favored by Bill, but were vetoed by Pioli. I had read that each had a veto, that the Pats wouldn't select a player that either had a problem with. We do know that the Pats' drafts have improved since Pioli left.

 

[Armchair Quarterback]

Unless you can see into someone's soul there's simply no way to tell if they will continue to apply themselves once they've gotten their first NFL contract. Or how they will respond to the Patriots culture and systems. You can try to find analogs in their experiences in life and HS/college football but there is still enough unknown that skill can't cover.

If it was simply about skill the Patriots would have drafted Jennings instead of Jackson, MJD instead of Maroney, etc, etc.

Not sure what your point is on this one, that's exactly who they should have drafted. Calling the draft a crapshoot makes it sound like there's no skill involved and it's all luck of the draw. You project how well their physical skills, work ethic, desire for the game, etc. will translate to the NFL game. Looking into their soul is getting a little dramatic.

 

[mgteich]

So, the draft isn't a crapshoot after all. Great work Belichick! I would consider the position drafted in the ratings.

DISAGREEMENTS
Hernandez is clearly an A for a 4th rounder.
Fletcher is at least a B-.
Love is a solid B or even an A.
Cannon is a B (a 5th rounder who can start!)
Ebert is an F (didn't we cut him once)
Doesn't Larsen start for another team? That would give him at least a B- as a pick.
Wilson is a B- for me. He's started and played OK for a rookie.
======

2010 was huge, with 10 contributors being drafted or picked up as an UDFA.

2011 wasn't great. However, we did draft 2 starting OT's, our excellent starting running back
and backup QB. We also could get future help from Vereen and/or Dowling.

2012 is already great with 7 contributors (including Ebner on special teams and Wilson as a backup safety). We may get future help from Bequette, Demps and/or Forston.

The rookie poll got me thinking about the last 3 "freshman" classes (drafts and UDFAs) for the Pats.

2010:
McCourty (B+)
Gronk (A+)
Cunningham (C+, but improved his grade this year)
Spikes (B+)
Price (F)
Hernandez (A-)
Mesko (A-)
Larsen (??)
Welch (F)
Deaderick (B-)
Weston (F)
Robinson (F)
Fletcher
Love

2011:
Solder (A)
Dowling (D so far, but who knows)
Vereen (B-, but with A- potential)
Ridley (A-)
Mallett (C...what do you expect, he was drafted to be a backup)
Cannon (B-)
Smith (F)
Carter (F)
Williams (D-)
Silvestro
Tarpinian

2012:
Jones (A)
Hightower (A-)
Wilson (C)
Bequette (D)
Ebner (C)
Dennard (A)
Ebert (B)
Boldin (B)
Forston (C)
Francis (B-)
Demps (INC)

There are a TON of very good players the Pats have picked up through the draft or UDFA process the past three seasons. It's helped them rebuild the foundation for the next great Patriots' teams.

EDIT: Yeah, Ebert is not a B. Whoops. Also, forgot to add Demps and Francis. Corrected above.

 

[fnordcircle]

Not sure what your point is on this one, that's exactly who they should have drafted. Calling the draft a crapshoot makes it sound like there's no skill involved and it's all luck of the draw. You project how well their physical skills, work ethic, desire for the game, etc. will translate to the NFL game. Looking into their soul is getting a little dramatic.

My point is that it is a crapshoot. Just like in craps you can work the odds to be as in your favor as possible, but ultimately there's a random factor (the human equation) that can't be denied.

We all like to talk **** about various GMs in the league, but even Tannenbaum or Millen have a better understanding of players and drafting than people on this board with probably only a few exceptions. They're only 'idiots' compared to other personnel guys who have better drafting criteria and draft day strategies.

The terrible drafts we had in the latter half of the 2000s when our drafts the early half were fantastic is testament to this.

 

[DaBruinz]

Just minor qualms..

How can you give Malcolm Williams a (D-) when he was a 7th rounder who has stuck with the team (albeit it the PS), though he's seen action in a few games on special teams. And when he's played on special teams, he's made plays.

How can you rate Forston a (C)? He's done nothing but sit on the PS.

 

[BlueThunder]

Agree on Forston. Think it should be an INC until he makes the final roster. I believe he will and there were just others ahead of him that were a bit more seasoned. He'll probably make the healthy inactives next season and be emergency backup to a backup ala Francis this season. JMHO

 

[Patriot 37]

The rookie poll got me thinking about the last 3 "freshman" classes (drafts and UDFAs) for the Pats.

2010:
McCourty (B+)
Gronk (A+)
Cunningham (C+, but improved his grade this year)
Spikes (B+)
Price (F)
Hernandez (A-)
Mesko (A-)
Larsen (??)
Welch (F)
Deaderick (B-)
Weston (F)
Robinson (F)
Fletcher
Love

Too early to grade 2011 and 2012.

I got no problem with your grades but if you are giving Fs for 7th rounders who don't make the team shouldn't 7th rounders and UDFAs who end up as solid starters like Love and Deadrick gets As ?

 

[ivanvamp]

Everyone is getting too hung up on my "grades". Those grades were off the top of my head and not really thought through. Don't miss the forest for the trees, people. The point of my OP was to show how great the Pats have done the past 3 seasons rebuilding the franchise. If I'm off a grade or two here or there who cares? They've gotten a bunch of really good players in a small window of time, and the foundation is set for the next great run.

 

[BlueThunder]

All I know is that the Pats have gone from an older team to a younger team in just 3 years while not giving up the Division title or missing the playoffs over that timeframe. That, my friends, is a very GOOD sign and will pay dividends in the future. :rocker:

 

[Ring 6]

Not sure what your point is on this one, that's exactly who they should have drafted. Calling the draft a crapshoot makes it sound like there's no skill involved and it's all luck of the draw. You project how well their physical skills, work ethic, desire for the game, etc. will translate to the NFL game. Looking into their soul is getting a little dramatic.

Its a crapshoot because the results show that everyone who drafts makes many,many choices that turn out poorly. To suggest otherwise, and to pick one draft pick and say someone else should have been taken and call that an inherent failure of the drafter is obtuse.

 

[Armchair Quarterback]

Its a crapshoot because the results show that everyone who drafts makes many,many choices that turn out poorly. To suggest otherwise, and to pick one draft pick and say someone else should have been taken and call that an inherent failure of the drafter is obtuse.

Ok great, it's a crapshoot. No sense in giving the Pats credit for the last 3 drafts then, as it's all just random luck - just blind picks that happened to turn out well. No skill involved. I got it now.

 

[Ring 6]

Ok great, it's a crapshoot. No sense in giving the Pats credit for the last 3 drafts then, as it's all just random luck - just blind picks that happened to turn out well. No skill involved. I got it now.

So when you argue 10 on a scale of 1 to 10, any disagreement must be a 1?
Are you seriously that ignorant?
where did i say ANY of the things you just said?
Are you capable of having a discussion? Or do you just need to throw a little temper tantrum when it is pointed out where you are wrong?

 

[Armchair Quarterback]

So when you argue 10 on a scale of 1 to 10, any disagreement must be a 1?
Are you seriously that ignorant?
where did i say ANY of the things you just said?
Are you capable of having a discussion? Or do you just need to throw a little temper tantrum when it is pointed out where you are wrong?

A crapshoot would seem to indicate those things, which is why I have a problem with calling it that.

My post was simply sarcasm, your post is the one with the emotional meltdown.

 

[Ring 6]

A crapshoot would seem to indicate those things, which is why I have a problem with calling it that.

My post was simply sarcasm, your post is the one with the emotional meltdown.

Apparently your problem is that you don't understand the way people use words, and that you don't know what sarcasm is.

 

[Armchair Quarterback]

Apparently your problem is that you don't understand the way people use words, and that you don't know what sarcasm is.

Right, that's it. Whatever you say.

 

[Ring 6]

Right, that's it. Whatever you say.

He says, laying on the ground kicking his feet and pounding his fists into the ground.

 

[mgteich]

I rather suspect that he says this ROFL.

He says, laying on the ground kicking his feet and pounding his fists into the ground.