The Epic Season of Peyton Manning

[ivanvamp]

Don Banks, who I really like as an NFL writer, says this in his latest column: "The epic seasons being turned in by Minnesota running back Adrian Peterson and Denver quarterback Peyton Manning have deservedly sucked up all the oxygen in the comeback player of the year debate, but there are other notable comebacks unfolding around the league in varying degrees."

(Adrian Peterson, Peyton Manning comebacks overshadowing Thomas Davis, Brandon Stokley, others - NFL - Don Banks - SI.com)

No doubt Peyton has been really good. But "epic"? Here are his actual numbers:

347-511, 67.9%, 4016 yds, 7.9 ypa, 31 td, 10 int, 6.1 td%, 2.0 int%, 103.5 rating

Ok, that's good, without a question. But it's not epic in the sense of being an all-time great season. Here are some recent seasons that were better than what Manning is doing now:

Manning (2004) - 67.6%, 4557 yds, 49 td, 10 int, 121.1 rating
Brady (2007) - 68.9%, 4806 yds, 50 td, 8 int, 117.2 rating
Brady (2010) - 65.9%, 3900 yds, 36 td, 4 int, 111.0 rating
Brady (2011) - 65.6%, 5235 yds, 39 td, 12 int, 105.6 rating
Rodgers (2011) - 68.3%, 4643 yds, 45 td, 6 int, 122.5 rating
Brees (2009) - 70.6%, 4388 yds, 34 td, 11 int, 109.6 rating
Brees (2011) - 71.2%, 5476 yds, 46 td, 14 int, 110.6 rating

So I know he's having a terrific season and all, but it's not an "epic" season. What makes it so amazing is that he's coming back from a serious injury, and that Denver is doing very well. Well that's all well and good, but in terms of actual performance on the field, Peyton has been terrific, but not "epic".

Still think he's going to win the MVP though.

 

[dannydyn]

Just another clown with his head up Manning's ***.... Let them all hype him all they want. We'll find out how good he really is come playoffs time.

 

[Gronkandez]

I would say it's pretty epic considering he came back from six neck surgeries at age 36.

It's an impossible point to argue...kind of like those "Is Eli Elite?" threads from last year.

EDIT: I think it was 'only' four surgeries to be accurate.

 

[Armchair Quarterback]

I would say it's pretty epic considering he came back from six neck surgeries at age 36.

It's an impossible point to argue...kind of like those "Is Eli Elite?" threads from last year.

EDIT: I think it was 'only' four surgeries to be accurate.

Well those "Is Eli elite?" threads had a definitive answer then and a definitive answer now and in both cases the answer is absolutely not.

 

[Sivy]

Me and my brother were talking about the 07 season the other day, because Moss was coming to town. Its crazy that Brady had only 8 INTs the entire year, considering that he launched it into double, and often tripple coverage all season to Randy. We will never see anything like that again in our life times.

 

[PatsFanSince74]

Just another clown with his head up Manning's ***.... Let them all hype him all they want. We'll find out how good he really is come playoffs time.

Oh come on; your other posts out here are too good for you to say something like that...that's the kind of comment that belongs on a Jets Board.

We know "how good he really is." Peyton Manning is very, very good and beat us five out of the last eight times we played him, (five out of the last seven without the L we hung on him in the first week of October, before he was fully "back").

I still put Brady way over him in the "GOAT race," but all that matters now is figuring out how to go into Denver in January and win a playoff game against the Broncos...with Peyton Manning and not Jake Plummer under center. I am confident we're going to win, but his season is anything but "hype."

 

[TinhWoodhead]

Manning (2004) - 67.6%, 4557 yds, 49 td, 10 int, 121.1 rating
Brady (2007) - 68.9%, 4806 yds, 50 td, 8 int, 117.2 rating

why is the 04 rating higher than 07?

 

[BostonPatriot71]

I don't like how Tom Brady is almost serially underrated by these sports 'writer' types and how they always seem to rate Peyton ahead of Brady. I feel this is not the way it should be and I'm not being a Pats homer here.

Let's compare what really counts, W-L records and championships:

regular season
Brady 134-39
P. Manning 152-70

playoffs
Brady 16-6
P. Manning 9-10

head to head
Brady 9
P. Manning 4

Championships
Brady 18 (10 AFC East, 5 AFC, 3 Super Bowl)
P. Manning 11 (7 AFC South, 1 AFC East, 2 AFC, 1 Super Bowl)

The site coldhardfootballfacts.com puts it like this and I quite agree with them:

Peyton Manning is a great player – a certain Hall of Famer – who puts up some nifty numbers. We have never disputed his greatness. What we have disputed are his merits relative to Tom Brady's. Manning fans insist that his gaudy stats of the past two seasons are a sign of his superiority.

Peyton Manning chokes in the playoffs all the time, he did it in 1999, 2000, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2009, 2010. Did Brady ever really choke like that? Sure we lost two super bowls but that had more to do with two rare moments of uber-clutch of Peyton's little brother than with any hint of Brady choking.

P. Manning is a great quarterback, when it matters the least. When it matters most, he rarely delivers. Now I'm not saying he's bad, but on any list of best ever, surely everyone needs to put Tom Brady ahead of Peyton Manning. There isn't an argument as to why you wouldn't do that.

 

[BSR]

why is the 04 rating higher than 07?

Higher yards per attempt.

Overall though, I don't have a problem with Bank's description. Those are great numbers and right up there with the best seasons of all time. The thing that makes his season less than epic would be the level of competition that he has faced. It isn't like he is putting up those big numbers against quality teams and he is also been trending downward of late.

 

[ivanvamp]

why is the 04 rating higher than 07?

It's a complicated formula. I don't know exactly how it's figured. On the surface, it would seem that Brady's '07 season was better than Manning's '04.

 

[Kontradiction]

I don't like how Tom Brady is almost serially underrated by these sports 'writer' types and how they always seem to rate Peyton ahead of Brady. I feel this is not the way it should be and I'm not being a Pats homer here.

Let's compare what really counts, W-L records and championships:

regular season
Brady 134-39
P. Manning 152-70

playoffs
Brady 16-6
P. Manning 9-10

head to head
Brady 9
P. Manning 4

Championships
Brady 18 (10 AFC East, 5 AFC, 3 Super Bowl)
P. Manning 11 (7 AFC South, 1 AFC East, 2 AFC, 1 Super Bowl)

The site coldhardfootballfacts.com puts it like this and I quite agree with them:


Peyton Manning chokes in the playoffs all the time, he did it in 1999, 2000, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2009, 2010. Did Brady ever really choke like that? Sure we lost two super bowls but that had more to do with two rare moments of uber-clutch of Peyton's little brother than with any hint of Brady choking.

P. Manning is a great quarterback, when it matters the least. When it matters most, he rarely delivers. Now I'm not saying he's bad, but on any list of best ever, surely everyone needs to put Tom Brady ahead of Peyton Manning. There isn't an argument as to why you wouldn't do that.

I would argue that Manning choked in 2005 and 2007 as well. The Colts, on paper at least, were a better team than the 2005 Steelers and 2007 Chargers (who beat the Manning Colts with Billy Volek taking the snaps at crunch time).

 

[PatsFanSince74]

why is the 04 rating higher than 07?

The data provided by the poster omit the numbers for Attempts and Completions, which are part of the formula. In 2004, P. Manning had 497 A for 9.2 Y/A and 336 C for 13.3 Y/C. In 2007, Brady had 578 A for 8.3 Y/A and 398 C for 12.1 Y/C. (Not defending it, just reporting it.)

 

[PatsFanSince74]

I don't like how Tom Brady is almost serially underrated by these sports 'writer' types and how they always seem to rate Peyton ahead of Brady. I feel this is not the way it should be and I'm not being a Pats homer here.

Let's compare what really counts, W-L records and championships:

regular season
Brady 134-39
P. Manning 152-70

playoffs
Brady 16-6
P. Manning 9-10

head to head
Brady 9
P. Manning 4

Championships
Brady 18 (10 AFC East, 5 AFC, 3 Super Bowl)
P. Manning 11 (7 AFC South, 1 AFC East, 2 AFC, 1 Super Bowl)

The site coldhardfootballfacts.com puts it like this and I quite agree with them:


Peyton Manning chokes in the playoffs all the time, he did it in 1999, 2000, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2009, 2010. Did Brady ever really choke like that? Sure we lost two super bowls but that had more to do with two rare moments of uber-clutch of Peyton's little brother than with any hint of Brady choking.

P. Manning is a great quarterback, when it matters the least. When it matters most, he rarely delivers. Now I'm not saying he's bad, but on any list of best ever, surely everyone needs to put Tom Brady ahead of Peyton Manning. There isn't an argument as to why you wouldn't do that.

Welcome to the Board.

That's a discussion we've had out here dozens of times over the years, but thanks for reminding us of the data...we can't have too much accurate data, IMO, even if we've been through the material often.

If Brady and Manning both retired today, without playing another game, I think that the long run view will be quite clear that Brady was the superior of two very good Quarterbacks for the reasons you cite and that Brady will be in the GOAT discussion and that Peyton won't be in it.

But they both still have a lot of football to play, according to the two of them at least. If Peyton "finishes strong" and pulls an Elway by winning two SB's at the end of his career (by winning the Lombardi at the ages of 37 and 38, Elway was and is the only QB to win an SB after the age of 35), that conclusion will, of course, have to be revisited. Peyton turns 37 in March.

I originally didn't get it when "Dome Peyton" (not talking about his forehead!) decided to move to an outdoor environment in the Rockies, but the more I think about it, the clearer it becomes to me that Elway appealed to Manning on a visceral level and painted a picture of the two of them together re-creating his own history.

(Also, I'm in a minority of one when I suggest that Manning might have decided that it was better for the longevity of his arm and neck for him to take tens of thousands of practice reps at altitude where the drag on the ball is slightly but measurably lower than at Sea Level; I don't expect people to agree with that, but I keep saying it in case Peyton one day says it was a factor in his decision.)

 

[Uncle Rico]

The data provided by the poster omit the numbers for Attempts and Completions, which are part of the formula. In 2004, P. Manning had 497 A for 9.2 Y/A and 336 C for 13.3 Y/C. In 2007, Brady had 578 A for 8.3 Y/A and 398 C for 12.1 Y/C. (Not defending it, just reporting it.)

Yes, I thought it came down to yards per attempt, but couldn't remember for sure until I saw your numbers.

 

[BostonPatriot71]

Welcome to the Board.

Thanks, I've been lurking for so long, I finally decided I wanted to contribute just a little bit, and join in on a bit of the 'Jets suck' fun before the Sanchize-Ryan-Tanenbaum era is over.

And I'll always argue that Brady-Belichick is the best QB-HC combo ever. Period. We will miss them eventually, but not yet thankfully.

 

[goheels22002]

I don't like how Tom Brady is almost serially underrated by these sports 'writer' types and how they always seem to rate Peyton ahead of Brady. I feel this is not the way it should be and I'm not being a Pats homer here.

Let's compare what really counts, W-L records and championships:

regular season
Brady 134-39
P. Manning 152-70

playoffs
Brady 16-6
P. Manning 9-10

head to head
Brady 9
P. Manning 4

Championships
Brady 18 (10 AFC East, 5 AFC, 3 Super Bowl)
P. Manning 11 (7 AFC South, 1 AFC East, 2 AFC, 1 Super Bowl)

The site coldhardfootballfacts.com puts it like this and I quite agree with them:


Peyton Manning chokes in the playoffs all the time, he did it in 1999, 2000, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2009, 2010. Did Brady ever really choke like that? Sure we lost two super bowls but that had more to do with two rare moments of uber-clutch of Peyton's little brother than with any hint of Brady choking.

P. Manning is a great quarterback, when it matters the least. When it matters most, he rarely delivers. Now I'm not saying he's bad, but on any list of best ever, surely everyone needs to put Tom Brady ahead of Peyton Manning. There isn't an argument as to why you wouldn't do that.

Losing individual football games. especially Super Bowls, is not an indication of a quarterback's overall performance. The losses to the Giants had much more to do with the match-ups in the trenches than the performances of Eli and Brady.

As far as historical comparisons go, the Brady-Manning decade stacks up favorably against earlier pairs or groupings of great QBs like Kelly-Marino-Elway who are linked by a common draft class. I'm not sure why we'd care how people rank them against one another - the stats will take care of that in the long run.

Is Tom Brady better than Otto Graham? It's a worthy debate given their different eras. It doesn't matter what some writer or commentator thinks, it's what you believe in your heart and whose jersey Ian sent you for underwriting patsfans.com (Where's my Otto Graham throwback jersey, Ian?)

Manning and Brady are first-ballot Hall of Famers whose overall numbers will be eye-popping historically, until the NFL decides to outlaw the pass rush and limit pass defenders to oral arguments to stop forward progress.

 

[PatsFanSince74]

Thanks, I've been lurking for so long, I finally decided I wanted to contribute just a little bit, and join in on a bit of the 'Jets suck' fun before the Sanchize-Ryan-Tanenbaum era is over.

And I'll always argue that Brady-Belichick is the best QB-HC combo ever. Period. We will miss them eventually, but not yet thankfully.

No doubt that's the way it goes down if they both retire tomorrow.

 

[TinhWoodhead]

The data provided by the poster omit the numbers for Attempts and Completions, which are part of the formula. In 2004, P. Manning had 497 A for 9.2 Y/A and 336 C for 13.3 Y/C. In 2007, Brady had 578 A for 8.3 Y/A and 398 C for 12.1 Y/C.

that is completely cow manure!

 

[Triumph]

Manning should win MVP.

The guy is a class act and a great player.

 

[SVN]

If the broncos had erased a 28 pt deficit and lost on sunday , everyone would still be talking about how great manning was "once he figured out" the SF defense. Since its brady/pats, the coverage is over already. Thats the media power of manning.