Status on Alfonzo Dennard?

[goheels22002]

How sad is it that we're depending on a 7th round rookie to fix the starting CB spot?

He was a projected second round selection who dropped like a stone when he decided to take on four police officers at a Lincoln, NE bar the Saturday night/Sunday morning before the NFL draft. Lucky for the Patriots he decided to fight some cops when he did.

I was very down on Dennard when they selected him, but I like the combination of Talib and Dennard at the corners a lot with Arrington in the slot, and McCourty and Gregory at Safety. This is a young, athletic crew that just came together as a unit three weeks ago. The Jags/Dolphins provide two more games for these guys to mesh as a unit before showtime begins.

 

[Deus Irae]

He was a projected second round selection who dropped like a stone when he decided to take on four police officers at a Lincoln, NE bar the Saturday night/Sunday morning before the NFL draft. Lucky for the Patriots he decided to fight some cops when he did.

I was very down on Dennard when they selected him, but I like the combination of Talib and Dennard at the corners a lot with Arrington in the slot, and McCourty and Gregory at Safety. This is a young, athletic crew that just came together as a unit three weeks ago. The Jags/Dolphins provide two more games for these guys to mesh as a unit before showtime begins.

I've got no problem with the kid. I was advocating keeping him as a starter once Talib came on board.

I was just talking about the overall state of affairs in the secondary.

 

[BananaRepublican]

they went to carbtree.

Proteintree too.

 

[mayoclinic]

How sad is it that we're depending on a 7th round rookie to fix the starting CB spot?

What exactly is sad about it?

The NFL is full of late round and UDFA CBs who are starting, and often starring. Green Bay's secondary got a big boost from the return of former UDFA CB Sam Shieds. Their other starting CB, Tramon Williams, is also a former UDFA. Former 7th round pick Cortland Finnegan got $50M this offseason, as did former 5th round pick Brandon Carr, while former 6th round pick Jason McCourty got $43M (all 5 year deals).

Dennard was never a 7th round talent. We got him cheap. He's still a rookie and has a learning curve, but it's not particularly outside the NFL norm that we're depending on him to fix one of our starting CB spots.

Sad would be if we weren't depending on him to fix it, and were sticking with the status quo. Or if we didn't have him as an option.

 

[jbb9s]

doesn't anyone else thing that McCourty at corner and TWilson or PChung at Safety is LESS worse than Arrington at corner and McCourty remaining at safety?

This should be considered next time Dennard can't suit up.

 

[Deus Irae]

What exactly is sad about it?...

Since 2008, the team has drafted

Wilhite (4)
Wheatley (2)
McCourty (2)
Dowling (2)
Butler (2)

all well above Mr. Denard. In addition, there have been all the FA signings. Not one of them is currently a starting CB for the team. Instead, what we've got is a guy who was a possible cut for the Buccaneers and a 7th round pick manning the spots.

That's sad.

 

[dannydyn]

doesn't anyone else thing that McCourty at corner and TWilson or PChung at Safety is LESS worse than Arrington at corner and McCourty remaining at safety?

This should be considered next time Dennard can't suit up.

My late grandma, climbing out of the grave would have been better at corner than that jacka55 Arrington.

 

[mayoclinic]

Since 2008, the team has drafted

Wilhite (4)
Wheatley (2)
McCourty (2)
Dowling (2)
Butler (2)

all well above Mr. Denard. In addition, there have been all the FA signings. Not one of them is currently a starting CB for the team. Instead, what we've got is a guy who was a possible cut for the Buccaneers and a 7th round pick manning the spots.

That's sad.

Now THAT I agree with 100% (though McCourty was a 1, and he's a terrif DB IMHO, just not his best as a press-man CB). You might add a 1st round safety (obviously predating your 2008 cutoff, but not by much) and soon a high 2nd round safety, which has indirectly impacted the CB situation.

 

[BSR]

Since 2008, the team has drafted

Wilhite (4)
Wheatley (2)
McCourty (2)
Dowling (2)
Butler (2)

all well above Mr. Denard. In addition, there have been all the FA signings. Not one of them is currently a starting CB for the team. Instead, what we've got is a guy who was a possible cut for the Buccaneers and a 7th round pick manning the spots.

That's sad.

It does no good to lament the past. Time to move forward with what we have and what we have isn't all that bad. In fact, it could end up pretty good.

 

[Deus Irae]

It does no good to lament the past...

Silly notion, particularly considering the events of the past few days...

 

[Deus Irae]

Now THAT I agree with 100% (though McCourty was a 1, and he's a terrif DB IMHO, just not his best as a press-man CB). You might add a 1st round safety (obviously predating your 2008 cutoff, but not by much) and soon a high 2nd round safety, which has indirectly impacted the CB situation.

Oh, I agree. The safety position situation has been every bit as sad. I hadn't been trying to open up the whole thing, though, so I left it out. However, it's also sad that the guy who's been a starter, as recently as last year and earlier this season, causes panic in the minds and hearts of the fans when he's seen coming in as a replacement. Did you have any real doubt that Arrington was going to get abused once he became the WR2?

 

[Gronkandez]

I'm just happy McCourty is contributing again. Two nice picks in consecutive weeks.

It's nice to watch Chung get burned one play, then come off the field the next play with his arm dangling. It's not his fault he often gets hurt but it's frustrating as a fan to watch.

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

How sad is it that we're depending on a 7th round rookie to fix the starting CB spot?

I am sure in 2001 in week 2 that people were saying "How sad is it that we're depending on a 6th round pick with 3 passes in his rookie season to fill the starting QB spot"

 

[Triumph]

doesn't anyone else thing that McCourty at corner and TWilson or PChung at Safety is LESS worse than Arrington at corner and McCourty remaining at safety?

This should be considered next time Dennard can't suit up.

No, McCourty is horrid at CB and slightly better at S. He at least doesnt have to turn his head back for the ball at S, but seems to misjudge where hes supposed to be on long completions.

I saw Wilson leave the game with a leg injury. Did he return?

 

[51Hits]

Since 2008, the team has drafted

Wilhite (4)
Wheatley (2)
McCourty (2)
Dowling (2)
Butler (2)

all well above Mr. Denard. In addition, there have been all the FA signings. Not one of them is currently a starting CB for the team. Instead, what we've got is a guy who was a possible cut for the Buccaneers and a 7th round pick manning the spots.

That's sad.

While I agree it's ugly, I'd challenge you to show me 5 NFL teams that consistently produce pro bowlers in the secondary, year after year.

I think it's safe to say (as you pointed out) we weren't too good at drafting players in the secondary from 05-2010. But BB has drafted some good ones, Wilson, Samuel, Dennard, McCourty. He also found a contributor in an UDFA (Randall Gay) Probably not the NFL's best by any stretch, but again so me 5 times that have been that much better.

Now I think we know why we keep seeing average CBs get paid like QBs in the offseason. It's an incredibly valuable yet hard position to find. How many teams can say they have a Revis? Not too many.

One thing is for damn sure, unless Talib wants like 9 + mil a year I think you do what it takes to sign him. This defense USED to be good when they had Ty Law, they were pretty good when Samuel had a good year in 07. Now they're decent again because they have a good corner for the first time since 2007. BB would be a damn fool to let another one get away, creating yet another black hole in the secondary to be filled.

 

[supafly]

One thing is for damn sure, unless Talib wants like 9 + mil a year I think you do what it takes to sign him. This defense USED to be good when they had Ty Law, they were pretty good when Samuel had a good year in 07. Now they're decent again because they have a good corner for the first time since 2007. BB would be a damn fool to let another one get away, creating yet another black hole in the secondary to be filled.

The problem is that we just don't have any idea as to where the cutoff points for both club and Talib sit at.

I project it to be approx.6 1/2--7 million per, or something which I equate to the "Bodden-esque" deal in 2009 + inflation (more NFL CB positional inflation as opposed to "real" inflation for the rest of us).

Some have said that there's no way that Belichick spends that much on Talib, knowing that he'll have D.McCourty coming up too, and that isn't even bringing into account his utter lack of respect for the CB salaries.

While it may currently seem that Talib will be resigned, I also wouldn't be surprised if they started over with a couple of draft picks and a middle-level FA signing just the same.

This one surely isn't written in stone, as you have to take the McCourty situation into account too, at least somewhat.

FWIW--I agree that they should sign Talib, but it will be interesting to see where his cutoff line sits.

 

[supafly]

While I agree it's ugly, I'd challenge you to show me 5 NFL teams that consistently produce pro bowlers in the secondary, year after year.

That would be utterly impossible.

What Deus is saying is that our drafting at the position has not only been below average, but when you account for the overall sheer number of those picks it becomes even worse.

This team has many drafting strengths at various positions, but picks in the secondary and at WR are definitely not one of them. As a matter of fact, they really offset some of the other successful picks on some level, seeing as how it remains to be a problem all of these years later.

 

[supafly]

I can't believe Arrington is still on the damn team. I thought they released him a while ago.

Kyle Arrington has been tremendously effective in the slot recently, and that is where his strengths suit him best + obviously where he belongs. Remember that he kept V.Cruz to 4 catches and 24 yds in the SB with some effective bracketing from the LB's.

The injury forced him to move outside, where he is borderline pathetic.

Edit: In his defense, he really should not have been forced to play on an island against one of the fastest WR's in the entire league.

 

[ausbacker]

Since 2008, the team has drafted

Wilhite (4)
Wheatley (2)
McCourty (2)
Dowling (2)
Butler (2)

all well above Mr. Denard. In addition, there have been all the FA signings. Not one of them is currently a starting CB for the team. Instead, what we've got is a guy who was a possible cut for the Buccaneers and a 7th round pick manning the spots.

That's sad.

I don't think it's sad at all. Performance and execution dictates your position, not the manner in which you were acquired. Dennard isn't playing like a 7th round pick.

The "sad" part where we agree is the relatively poor performance of the Patriots where using higher draft picks on DB's that haven't worked out. As a sum total, that's where I agree.

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

I am also concerned about Spikes who was walking gingerly back to the sidelines near the end of the game and Welker who left the stadium limping and with an ice bag wrapped on his thigh and upper leg area.