Remember when we all thought 'We can't win with this defense"?

[ForThoseAboutToRock]

HOU made a lot of mistakes and at times looked mentally weak. We have always had these games and with a tougher execution from the opp we give up the usual 24+.

I like whats happening but would it shock me if JAC scores 30+ and throws all over us? No. We said the same thing in 2010 and 2011 and all it took was a well executed game from NY QBs to embarrass us. I want to see them hold a SB lead first.

There was a point last night in the 3rd quarter where the offense had just committed it's 4th punt in a row (3 of which were 3 + out) and the score was 21-0. I was worried. Talib was out (injury mid 2Q I believe). The Texans are easily prolific enough to overcome a 3 score deficit with ~28 minutes of clock left.

Then:
Foster runs left 3 yards (Ninko, Deadrick)
Foster runs up the middle -2 yards (Deadrick)
Schaub completes pass to A. Johnson for 8 yards (Dennard)
Punt on 4th & 1.

So, with the opportunity ripe for a drive to make it a 2 score game with TONS of clock left, Hou used it's best offensive players and the Pats forced a 3 and out! 2 runs for 1 yard in an important drive followed by a textbook tackle short of the 1st down is a defensive stand.

The next series was the bomb to Stallworth. Game over.

 

[livinginthe past]

HOU made a lot of mistakes and at times looked mentally weak. We have always had these games and with a tougher execution from the opp we give up the usual 24+.

I like whats happening but would it shock me if JAC scores 30+ and throws all over us? No. We said the same thing in 2010 and 2011 and all it took was a well executed game from NY QBs to embarrass us. I want to see them hold a SB lead first.

Typical downer Pats fan.

The Giants offense put up all of 19 points on us in the Superbowl - you call that an embarrassment?

The problem in the SB was the offenses inability to acore more than 17.

Really.

Get a clue.

 

[PatriotSeven]

Not all of us. While I definitely thought we need improvement in the secondary, I believed we could win with last year's defense and they did not disappoint in the playoffs or Superbowl.

This D looks improved in some aspects, and are better than what proved to be a playoffs and Superbowl caliber defense last year.

 

[Danger Zone]

Except it's not "this defense" anymore.

It's a completely reworked secondary, it's a team that blitzes much much more than it did, (based on impressions, haven't seen stats to back that up) and it's a team that challenges receivers much more aggressively than it did.

What I heard on Patriots Radio was that we blitzed 15% of the time before Talib and 30% of the time with Talib and the readjusted secondary.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

Not everyone did. Some thought it was a matter of time, plus making a few key changes, which the coaching staff did. It's all gone as predicted:

- Move McCourty to FS and protect the deep part of the field
- Get Arrington away from the outside CB; he's been unexpectedly great in the slot
- Acquire Talib and pair him with Dennard outside and play aggressive press-man coverage
- Once your secondary can actually cover, start letting your talented front 7 play to its talent level, instead of holding them back

The defense is now unrecognizable from earlier in the year. And it should get better once Chandler Jones is fully recovered.

Postgame Wilfy said as much opining that finally BB had the talent to be able to move capable guys around to different positions in different packages

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

... Talib is fine. Arrington came back on the field as well for a snap.

Dennard is the only person I am worried about - he has the dreaded Hamstring injury.

You're right. With Edelperson out the Pats absolutely cannot afford to lose yet another 7th round pick for a game.

 

[manxman2601]

It's semantics.

No one every thought that the team would win playing soft zone coverage and BBDB defense with no pressure. That just doesn't work. The problem was, without the defensive personnel to cover effectively, anything else just resulted in huge plays. So it was a choice between death by paper cut vs. getting decapitated.

Part of the problem was injury related, part of it was youth and inexperience, part of it was changing personnel weekly, part of it was playing people out of position, part of it was just not having enough talent at the right positions. The front 7 always had the talent, but it was effectively paralyzed by the problems on the back end. Those problems have been rectified. Call it a "whole new defense" if you like, or a "new scheme", or an "adjustment", or a "fix". It's all the same thing.

I suspect that BB has wanted to play like this for a long, long time, but he hasn't had the personnel. He had some of the back end personnel in 2009 (the secondary was quite good with that year) but didn't have the personnel up front. The secondary fell apart in 2010 and last year. He's finally got the horses up front and enough talent on the back end to get creative without fear of being torn apart.

It's semantics.

Too suggest that significant changes have improved our defense? How is that "semantics"?

No one every thought that the team would win playing soft zone coverage and BBDB defense with no pressure. That just doesn't work.

And yet that's exactly the way we played these last few years. It was only after we were giving up a record number of big plays earlier this year that a change was made.

Those problems have been rectified. Call it a "whole new defense" if you like, or a "new scheme", or an "adjustment", or a "fix". It's all the same thing.

Well O.K. But that's like saying the Colts drafting Andrew Luck was an "adjustment" or a "fix". We completely changed the secondary, we traded for a player and we noticeably got more aggressive. It was a moved forced upon us because our defense was so bad. I don't see how that's debatable. credit to BB for making the move.

 

[mayoclinic]

Too suggest that significant changes have improved our defense? How is that "semantics"?.

What you wrote is:

Except it's not "this defense" anymore.

That's semantics by definition. The Pats' defense is never the same at any 2 points in time. Personnel and scheme constantly change. Obviously, we're not playing Pat Chung as the deep cover safety anymore. You can call that a "new defense" or a "new scheme" or "significant" changes or whatever. What you call it is "semantics". It's obviously changed from earlier in the season. No one disagrees about that. No one is arguing that we could win win Arrington outside, Chung as the deep cover safety, soft zone coverage, and no pass rush. I'm not sure why you're making an argument out of it.

 

[manxman2601]

What you wrote is:



That's semantics by definition. The Pats' defense is never the same at any 2 points in time. Personnel and scheme constantly change. Obviously, we're not playing Pat Chung as the deep cover safety anymore. You can call that a "new defense" or a "new scheme" or "significant" changes or whatever. What you call it is "semantics". It's obviously changed from earlier in the season. No one disagrees about that. No one is arguing that we could win win Arrington outside, Chung as the deep cover safety, soft zone coverage, and no pass rush. I'm not sure why you're making an argument out of it.

I really can't be bothered anymore.

If you don't think significantly changing the secondary and doubling the number of blitzes almost overnight are "significant changes" then fine. I'm not going to bother arguing the point.

 

[mayoclinic]

I really can't be bothered anymore.

If you don't think significantly changing the secondary and doubling the number of blitzes almost overnight are "significant changes" then fine. I'm not going to bother arguing the point.

You're not even reading what I wrote. I never said it wasn't significant. We're obviously not communicating, which is a shame, since I think the world of you, so I suggest we just cool off.

 

[Bigfatcat999]

From what I got Talib dropped the average Passing yards allowed by 40 yards a game.

Edit:

Before Talib: 285.3

After Talib: 253.5


Before Talib: 1.11 Interceptions per game
After Talib: 1.25 interceptions per game (Very small sample size)

 

[nabwong]

It looked to me that Hightower is not as comfortable as he was before he got injured. I wonder if that injury is bothering him more than we know, like Mayo last year or 2.

 

[patchick]

I think this season has been a dramatic illustration of how -- for all teams, but the Patriots in particular -- all aspects of the defense are interdependent.

We've had a lot of debates: "Is it the personnel or the scheme?" "Is it the lack of coverage or the lack of pressure?" But most of those are false dichotomies. Pressure upfront keeps the coverage job manageable. Holes in personnel limit scheme flexibility. Etc. And that's particularly true for a game-planning team like the Patriots, who tailor schemes to fit the players on the field, on both sides.

The defense with Talib & Dennard at CB and McCourty at safety looks different all over the field. Better backfield personnel, more aggressive front-7 schemes, and on and on. So no matter what your position was on all those dubious "or" debates, you can now feel vindicated.

 

[JackBauer]

It looked to me that Hightower is not as comfortable as he was before he got injured. I wonder if that injury is bothering him more than we know, like Mayo last year or 2.

Huh? Hightower played probably his best game of the year last night.

 

[nabwong]

Huh? Hightower played probably his best game of the year last night.

I thought he did well but he was more impressive in the first few games of the season. That's just my opinion. I think he can be more explosive though.

 

[patsfan13]

Not everyone did. Some thought it was a matter of time, plus making a few key changes, which the coaching staff did. It's all gone as predicted:

- Move McCourty to FS and protect the deep part of the field
- Get Arrington away from the outside CB; he's been unexpectedly great in the slot
- Acquire Talib and pair him with Dennard outside and play aggressive press-man coverage
- Once your secondary can actually cover, start letting your talented front 7 play to its talent level, instead of holding them back

The defense is now unrecognizable from earlier in the year. And it should get better once Chandler Jones is fully recovered.

Agree with all this and add to the mix Cunningham returns to help the pass rush.

BTW great spot with Troy Brown and Chatham talking about the development of the D since the secondary had the pieces added and rearranged:

Troy Brown on Belichick never letting former players beat him


The talent has been in place in the front 7 and now with the emergence of Dennard, Talib freeing up McCourty to move to FS and Arrington to the slot. the secondary is being transformed into a nice group.

We have seen the young talent being added and now we see this young athletic group becoming a force to be reckoned with.

BTW the the development of Love has freed up Big Vince to use his entire skill set. This is a major factor, VW is as good as ANY DLman in the league period.

 

[patsfan13]

Huh? Hightower played probably his best game of the year last night.

Yeah he is back from the injury and is at the point of the season when he is no longer a rookie. He will only get better and will add rushing the passer to his arsenal.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

Don't look now, but this defense is legitimate.

Up to the Week 7 struggles against the Jets: 23.2 PPG
Since: 18.5 PPG

18PPG in this modern NFL is a top 5 scoring defense.

To be fair, you didn't get the like, DramatiCat did.

 

[BradyManny]

To be fair, you didn't get the like, DramatiCat did.

LOL. Fair enough.

 

[Dingleberry]

For those who deem Arrington's play from the slot as unexpected....

Arrington showed he was a very good slot CB when he first came on the scene with the Patriots. Getting him off the outside has been the biggest factor.

Talib > McCourty as #1 CB
Dennard >> Arrington as #2 CB
McCourty >>>> any other Safety
Arrington >> Cole or any other slot CB

The addition of Talib upgraded 4 of the 5 DB positions in the sub package. Think about that. And now because of that, we are finally seeing what we have been dying for......some timely blitzing!