Drafting a WR early

[Ochmed Jones]

BB has a love/hate relationship with the WR position in the draft. Lots of second round picks used on this position,but outside of Branch, not a lot of success.

So now we come to this April's draft. Almost all the teams WRs are FA so this figures to be the year BB goes back to the draft pool for a youngster.

Assuming Allen of Cal is off the board early, that leaves some interesting talent available at #32 when we pick. Patterson from Tenn., Woods from USC, and undersized Austin from WV

Looking at these guys tape, none strike me as Patriot type players. Although Woods is intriguing but appears a bit slow footed.

Late Round 2 of this draft does not appear to contain any option, unless Hopkins from Clemson or Williams from WV drops.

So is this the year BB goes for a WR in round 1 or does BB wait until round 3 or later to draft a WR and then, how much do we really expect that player to contribute on the field? And remember there are only so many veterans retreads on the FA Market that BB could potentially sign.

 

[patfanken]

BB has a love/hate relationship with the WR position in the draft. Lots of second round picks used on this position,but outside of Branch, not a lot of success.

So now we come to this April's draft. Almost all the teams WRs are FA so this figures to be the year BB goes back to the draft pool for a youngster.

Assuming Allen of Cal is off the board early, that leaves some interesting talent available at #32 when we pick. Patterson from Tenn., Woods from USC, and undersized Austin from WV

Looking at these guys tape, none strike me as Patriot type players. Although Woods is intriguing but appears a bit slow footed.

Late Round 2 of this draft does not appear to contain any option, unless Hopkins from Clemson or Williams from WV drops.

So is this the year BB goes for a WR in round 1 or does BB wait until round 3 or later to draft a WR and then, how much do we really expect that player to contribute on the field? And remember there are only so many veterans retreads on the FA Market that BB could potentially sign.

Interesting question OJ. I am a big believer is NOT drafting a WR early in the draft, but given that we are likely to be drafting in the 30's again, it is kind of moot point, because our "early picks" are going to be at 30ish and 60ish. Not exactly "blue chip" country.

That being said, I think WR SHOULD be a prime concern for this year's draft/FA period. Contrary to your remarks, I was under the impression that this was a really deep year for WRs. Am I mistaken? It might just be an impression, but it seems like there are a lot of tall fast WRs on just about every division one team. I'd like to think that one of them might wind up with the Pats...at some round and a mid-level FA can blossom in this offense

 

[kennyb]

I think it's almost guaranteed to be a mistake. Apparently the offense is so hard that many simply can't learn it. They'd be better off getting a "smart" WR with good hands who knows where to be in a later round.

Connor vernon wr duke could be one.

 

[manxman2601]

Unless we want BB floundering at trying to fill the position like these last eight months, we better draft a quality WR.

 

[patsfaninpa]

I like DeAndre Hopkins from Clemson if he comes out. He's 6'1" 195lb. One of those big fast receivers most teams seem to have. But, we shy away from. No idea how smart he is. Or, how he runs the dreaded 3-cone drill. But, he does have 69 rec 1214 yards for a nifty 17.6 ypc and 16 td's. As a soph he was 72r 978y 5 td and a frosh 51r 626y 4 td. So, there's a lot of film on him. I think once he does his workouts he'll move up the boards. Tavon Austin seems like the sort of kid BB likes. Can cut on a dime and is still very fast. Versatile. 300 yards rushing against OU. Outstanding return guy.

At the beginning of the year, I thought we'd go defense, defense and more defense in the upcoming draft. Now, with Edelman's injury issues and pending free-agency, and Lloyds ok but nothing special performance. Oh, and Welker isn't signed yet either. It's really a need. Don't see how anyone can think otherwise now.

 

[mayoclinic]

Unless we want BB floundering at trying to fill the position like these last eight months, we better draft a quality WR.

What exactly do you think is a "quality WR"? Is it defined by the value of the draft choice? A 1st round pick? Spending a high 2nd like we did on Chad Jackson? Spending a 3rd like we did on Brandon Tate and Taylor Price? What exactly do you have in mind? Are Wes Welker, Julio Cruz and Miles Austin not "quality WRs" because they went undrafted? Is it defined by some set of measurables, productivity or other criteria that you would care to specify?

Our offense is extremely complicated and very precision oriented. Brady is extremely demanding, and very finnicky about who he bonds with. Some guys make it, others don't. From what I can tell, it's hit or miss, and it's not particularly related to the success of the WR in other systems. THere are some criteria that can be used to weed guys out (guys who can't digest the playbook, guys who are selfish, guys who aren't willing to block, guys who can't run the route tree, guys who can't run precise routes), but it's just not that simple, or our coaching staff would have figured it out by now. They're not morons.

 

[DocHoliday]

What exactly do you think is a "quality WR"? Is it defined by the value of the draft choice? A 1st round pick? Spending a high 2nd like we did on Chad Jackson? Spending a 3rd like we did on Brandon Tate and Taylor Price? What exactly do you have in mind? Are Wes Welker, Julio Cruz and Miles Austin not "quality WRs" because they went undrafted? Is it defined by some set of measurables, productivity or other criteria that you would care to specify?

Our offense is extremely complicated and very precision oriented. Brady is extremely demanding, and very finnicky about who he bonds with. Some guys make it, others don't. From what I can tell, it's hit or miss, and it's not particularly related to the success of the WR in other systems. THere are some criteria that can be used to weed guys out (guys who can't digest the playbook, guys who are selfish, guys who aren't willing to block, guys who can't run the route tree, guys who can't run precise routes), but it's just not that simple, or our coaching staff would have figured it out by now. They're not morons.

Sometimes I feel it may be worth bringing along a WR who is here simply to go deep. Dallas has one, Morgan I think. Hes the guy that came in, promptly ran downfield and caught two 40 yard throws in double coverage and disappeared for the rest of the game.

Megatron was running sideline routes for a couple years until he finally started working more of the field this year.

Versatility is nice, but I think it might help to throw a guy on the field who can draw PI calls - something we just don't get enough of.

 

[mayoclinic]

Sometimes I feel it may be worth bringing along a WR who is here simply to go deep. Dallas has one, Morgan I think. Hes the guy that came in, promptly ran downfield and caught two 40 yard throws in double coverage and disappeared for the rest of the game.

Megatron was running sideline routes for a couple years until he finally started working more of the field this year.

Versatility is nice, but I think it might help to throw a guy on the field who can draw PI calls - something we just don't get enough of.

That's not unreasonable, but you can get a deep speed burner late in the draft.

I like Manx's guy Markus Wheaton. He reminds me of a Greg Jennings kind of receiver. Plenty of speed to go deep, plenty of toughness to go over the middle, runs good routes. I think he's the best fit for the Pats outside of Tavon Austin.

 

[Snake Eyes]

Sometimes I feel it may be worth bringing along a WR who is here simply to go deep.

Versatility is nice, but I think it might help to throw a guy on the field who can draw PI calls - something we just don't get enough of.

Jeff Demps is a burner and can likely go deep very well, I wonder if the team has that in mind. Also, Brian Hartline owned Talib deep a few times last week, I wonder how he'd fit in, assuming we could get him in free agency along with resigning our current guys.

 

[D-Money]

I feel Woods will be a player at the next level.He has been battling an ankle injury all year.He runs very good routes.

 

[D-Money]

I would be shock of Woods doesnt enter the draft.His stock could fall further especially with a guy like Lee who has already overshadowed him.I like Woods though at the next level.

 

[DocHoliday]

Jeff Demps is a burner and can likely go deep very well, I wonder if the team has that in mind. Also, Brian Hartline owned Talib deep a few times last week, I wonder how he'd fit in, assuming we could get him in free agency along with resigning our current guys.

I didn't know this, but apparently Demps is the second shortest player in the entire league. I was reading somewhere that his listed height of 5'9 was absurdly generous and he seemed a good inch shorter than Woodhead. That's put him at around 5'6/5'7, a hair taller than Darren Sproles.

Hard to see him go deep lol

 

[Snake Eyes]

I didn't know this, but apparently Demps is the second shortest player in the entire league. I was reading somewhere that his listed height of 5'9 was absurdly generous and he seemed a good inch shorter than Woodhead. That's put him at around 5'6/5'7, a hair taller than Darren Sproles.

Hard to see him go deep lol

The guy is also one of, if not THE fastest player in the league. Why couldnt he go deep?

 

[Ochmed Jones]

What Our offense is extremely complicated and very precision oriented. Brady is extremely demanding, and very finnicky about who he bonds with.

I think Brady has to develop trust in a receiver before he will throw to them. He has to trust that the receiver is going to run the correct route and be in the corrst spot and have the hands to bring in the pass. Anything short of that and Brady will look to other options.

 

[manxman2601]

The guy is also one of, if not THE fastest player in the league. Why couldnt he go deep?

Little legs!!

 

[manxman2601]

I think Brady has to develop trust in a receiver before he will throw to them. He has to trust that the receiver is going to run the correct route and be in the corrst spot and have the hands to bring in the pass. Anything short of that and Brady will look to other options.

Brady's a bit of a prima donna in that regard. Do other QB's get so precious about who's catching their passes?

 

[manxman2601]

What exactly do you think is a "quality WR"? Is it defined by the value of the draft choice? A 1st round pick? Spending a high 2nd like we did on Chad Jackson? Spending a 3rd like we did on Brandon Tate and Taylor Price? What exactly do you have in mind? Are Wes Welker, Julio Cruz and Miles Austin not "quality WRs" because they went undrafted? Is it defined by some set of measurables, productivity or other criteria that you would care to specify?

Our offense is extremely complicated and very precision oriented. Brady is extremely demanding, and very finnicky about who he bonds with. Some guys make it, others don't. From what I can tell, it's hit or miss, and it's not particularly related to the success of the WR in other systems. THere are some criteria that can be used to weed guys out (guys who can't digest the playbook, guys who are selfish, guys who aren't willing to block, guys who can't run the route tree, guys who can't run precise routes), but it's just not that simple, or our coaching staff would have figured it out by now. They're not morons.

Errr. What?!?

What do I consider a quality receiver? Off the top of my head, I'm thinking someone who can run routes, catch passes, is fast enough to get seperation. You know, that sort of thing.

I do not judge a receiver by what round he's drafted in and I never said such a thing so I'm not sure where that little tirade came from and please feel free to show me where I said Welker, Austin or Cruz weren't quality receivers.

As for Brady being "finnicky". Please! He's paid millions - he should damn well throw to those he's paid to throw to.

 

[Snake Eyes]

Little legs!!

Leg length might correlate with slower speed but it does not cause slower speed, I know this because Jeff Demps can outrun everybody!

 

[mayoclinic]

Unless we want BB floundering at trying to fill the position like these last eight months, we better draft a quality WR.

Errr. What?!?

What do I consider a quality receiver? Off the top of my head, I'm thinking someone who can run routes, catch passes, is fast enough to get seperation. You know, that sort of thing.

I do not judge a receiver by what round he's drafted in and I never said such a thing so I'm not sure where that little tirade came from and please feel free to show me where I said Welker, Austin or Cruz weren't quality receivers.

As for Brady being "finnicky". Please! He's paid millions - he should damn well throw to those he's paid to throw to.

It's not a tirade, Manx. It's a question. You implied that we haven't drafted, or even tried to draft, quality WRs. The team has used a reasonable amount of draft picks on WRs, as well as FA signings. The majority haven't panned out. And it's fine to say that Brady gets paid well so he should throw the ball to whomever we sign, but it's just not that simple. There are multiple receiving options, and Brady makes the reads. His rapport with, and trust of a receiver are paramount in his decision about whether to target them.

Did you consider Brandon Tate and Taylor Price "quality WR" prospects when we drafted them? Which receiver prospects from the past several drafts did you consider to meet your criteria? I'm interested in learning. I'm guessing the Pats aren't interested in WRs who can't run routes, catch passes or get separation, so I'm not sure that they would go out of their way to draft WRs that don't meet your criteria.

I'm confused.

I'd like an additional receiving threat as much as you. But I'd be more confident about spending significant draft capital on one if I thought there was a decent chance he would stick. And since Deion Branch and David Givens in 2002, the most productive WR that the Pats have drafted has been 7th round pick Julian Edelman in 2009. And that includes Bethel Johnson (45, 2003) PK Sam (164, 2004), Chad Jackson (36, 2006), Brandon Tate (83, 2008) and Taylor Price (89, 2010). That's 10 years. A hell of a long time. We've passed up Anquan Bolden, Greg Jennings and Mike Wallace, not to mention guys like Pierre Garcon, Marques Colston, Antonio Brown and others who have developed into "quality" WRs and who were available at very reasonable cost. So either we're just lousy at picking and/or developing WRs, or our system (or personnel) makes it particularly difficult to find and develop receivers who fit.

 

[Off The Grid]

Little legs!!

So you're saying what, exactly?

That his blazing, Olympic speed is a figment of everyone else's imagination?? And that you have this singular insight to the fact that ~ even though he seems to be faster'n everyone else in the League ~ he actually "can't get deep" because of your penetrating analysis, which boils down to "little legs."??

Interesting perspective.