Why is BB taking so much heat aboukt TJ?

[spacecrime]

I can understand taking about the Pats and TJ, but don't understand the railing against BB himself. Anyone see the Hartford Courant article, which had a few things the Globe conveniently left out:

http://www.courant.com/sports/footb...03,0,7456490.story?coll=hc-headlines-patriots

Key excerpts:

Former Patriots linebacker Ted Johnson, who is now dealing with memory loss and depression related to repeated concussions during his 10-year NFL career, said Patriots coach Bill Belichick encouraged him to engage in full-scale practice while recovering from a concussion, against the advice of the Patriots' head trainer.

before a 9-on-7 drill, an assistant trainer handed Johnson a blue jersey, signifying full contact.

"I looked at the trainer and said, `Who told you to give me this?'" Johnson told The Globe. "He just walked away. He didn't want to say. But I knew who it was. It was Bill [Belichick]. I was so mad, I wanted to scream. But I put the thing on anyway. I had my pride. They weren't going to beat me."

*****************

When Johnson and Belichick sat down in September 2002 to try to repair their strained relationship, Johnson told The Globe that he told Belichick, "You played God with my health. You knew I shouldn't have been cleared to play."

Belichick told The Globe he didn't realize at the time that Johnson was hesitant about participating in the full-contact drill.

"If Ted felt so strongly that he didn't feel he was ready to practice with us, he should have told me," Belichick said.

*******************

Johnson told The Globe that he thought he had at least six concussions in his last three Patriots seasons but reported only one because he didn't want to underscore his reputation as an injury-prone player.

I feel very badly for TJ. I like him a lot. I hope he gets better, or at least not any worse, and hope the NFl or NFLPA can so something for him, if only using him as a springboard to make life better for future NFL players. But I don't get the villification of BB in all this.

I wish they would focus on the NFL rather than BB so that global changes can be made to the way players' injuries are handled.

 

[Keegs]

because lately everyone's hobby is to try and make BB look like the biggest ******* possible

 

[VJCPatriot]

I believe there's already a thread for this. If TJ only reported 1 concussion out of 6 I don't see how BB could have known about them. He realy should have spoken up, I think. Because BB is not a mind reader.

 

[Hoodie]

Didn't you know, BB is also responsible for global warming.

 

[PatsFanInVa]

Didn't you know, BB is also responsible for global warming.

Technically, the report out last week said it's 90% likely that "Man" is responsible, but we all know who they're talking about.

BULLETIN BOARD MATERIAL!

PFnV

 

[JoeSixPat]

Why is BB taking so much heat aboukt TJ? .

I don know why either!

Frankly I just don't think we can trust anything Johnson says or his recollection of events.

After all, rumor has it he's suffered a lot of concussions and might not be thinking straight.

 

[PatsFanSince74]

Borrowing from Peter King, here's what I think I think about this whole sad affair.

Retired NFL players, especially those whose job it was to sacrifice their heads to make tackles and blocks, need not only the best medical care and appropriate financial assistance from the League but also the appreciation and understanding of all of us who spent our leisuretime watching them risk their wellbeing from the comfort of our couches and armchairs.

This is a very rough and dangerous game, and nothing is going to change that. It is the responsibility of coaches and team personnel to be prudent and responsible when it comes to putting a player in harm's way. But, ultimately, those who play this game have chosen knowingly to play a dangerous game. So, the burden of responsibility is a shared burden and making BB or any coach solely responsible for the consequences to someone like TJ is unfair.

Todays players, veterans and rookies, need disinterested and unbiased medical advice, when it comes to understanding the risks they are taking. There will always be someone else who is willing to take that risk, so following that advice may cost some of them their jobs or status on the team.

TJ is obviously a guy going through a hard time both physically and emotionally right now. I think we should take some of the things he is saying with a grain of salt and allow others to sort out what really happened. Let's give the guy his privacy.

 

[NEPat]

This is a very rough and dangerous game, and nothing is going to change that. It is the responsibility of coaches and team personnel to be prudent and responsible when it comes to putting a player in harm's way. But, ultimately, those who play this game have chosen knowingly to play a dangerous game. So, the burden of responsibility is a shared burden and making BB or any coach solely responsible for the consequences to someone like TJ is unfair.

Good post.

There are a couple of issues here, and I'm not sure why people are confused that Belichick is getting some blame.

1. The part in bold is why Belichick is taking heat on this. According to everyone concerned, and according to team records, Belichick overruled the Pats trainer when Johnson was not cleared for practice. The health of the players should be paramount here, and if the trainer does not clear him to play after a head injury, he shouldn't have practiced. Belichick messed up, no one has refuted this, not even Belichick.

2. That doesn't mean that Belichick is solely responsible for Johnson's current condition. But because Johnson points to those back to back concussions he suffered as the start of his condition, all the articles and news stories do too.
It's most likely a combination of things that have led Johnson to where he is now, including drugs and the multiple concussions he's suffered.

I hope that since that incident, Belichick and staff have been more careful dealing with these things. And I would hope that the trainers do not get intimidated and give way to the coaches on matters concerning player injuries. Everyone's first priority should be the player's health.

 

[frankiesfly]

because lately everyone's hobby is to try and make BB look like the biggest ******* possible

I know, its sad. I think "they" have to find fault in him anyway they can. Thats what happens when your the best coach in the NFL.

 

[PatsMyBoyz!]

While a nice sentiment,I hardly think that even Ted Johnson expects much privacy after this story. He made a very serious allegation about one of the most renowned coaches in the NFL;people have actually called for BB's firing,it's all over ESPN,the NY Times,and who knows where else. Given how much BB and the Pats are "loved" around the league and it's fanbase,every city in the NFL is giving this story as much press as the SB. Sorry Peter,but a call for TJ's privacy seems a bit out of reach.:bricks:

That said, I'm curious what prompted TJ to suddenly come out with this story? I really haven't seen him since he stopped doing the post-game show a couple of years ago (?) and he seemed fine then. Though not the most articulate in the group,he held his own. He even got mad at Felger a couple of times;TJ was a total homer when it came to the Pats.
Some speculate it was motivated by the ex-Steeler's story,lots of theories are floating around,but did he call Jackie? Did he call the NY Times? If someone posted this info elsewhere,my apologies. I'm just curious as to the circumstances.

 

[DefenseRules]

It would be even more sad if BB decides to retire because of this. There's only so much crap a person can take without fighting back.

 

[PF1996]

Good post.

There are a couple of issues here, and I'm not sure why people are confused that Belichick is getting some blame.

1. The part in bold is why Belichick is taking heat on this. According to everyone concerned, and according to team records, Belichick overruled the Pats trainer when Johnson was not cleared for practice. The health of the players should be paramount here, and if the trainer does not clear him to play after a head injury, he shouldn't have practiced. Belichick messed up, no one has refuted this, not even Belichick.

2. That doesn't mean that Belichick is solely responsible for Johnson's current condition. But because Johnson points to those back to back concussions he suffered as the start of his condition, all the articles and news stories do too.
It's most likely a combination of things that have led Johnson to where he is now, including drugs and the multiple concussions he's suffered.

I hope that since that incident, Belichick and staff have been more careful dealing with these things. And I would hope that the trainers do not get intimidated and give way to the coaches on matters concerning player injuries. Everyone's first priority should be the player's health.

Perhaps you could explain where you're getting your information from because the information that I have isn't enough for anyone, least of all Belichick, to get blamed. Here are the pertinent facts of which I'm aware.

1. Johnson is mentally screwed up and blames the concussions he suffered in the NFL, particularly his "back to back concussion in 2002"

2. Johnson DID suffer back to back concussions

3. Johnson suffered his second concussion during PRACTICE, NOT an actual game

4. Belichick and Johnson had a meeting AFTER Johnson left the team without permission and then returned

5. Belichick commented that both he and Ted "apologised" to each other in the meeting. The nature of Belichick's comments suggests that he made a general apology to soothe Ted's feelings for the benefit of the team. NOWHERE in Belichick's comments does it state that he apologised to Ted for "overruling the trainer and giving him a blue jersey to wear in practice".

6. Ted JOHNSON claims that Belichick said he "effed up"....the implication being that this alleged comment by Belichick was made in reference to Johnson wearing a blue jersey at practice. We do not know whether this particular phrase was indeed said by Belichick and EVEN IF IT WAS, whether it was said in reference to ANY SPECIFIC INCIDENT.

7. Ted Johnson claims to have suffered more than thirty concussions....to have played with concussions and NOT HAVE REPORTED these concussions


Let me know if you have any other information besides what I've presented because from that information once CANNOT draw ANY conclusions, certainly not that the "Patriots/Belichick show a lack of value for human life" or "run their organization in a disturbing manner". Here are some relevant unanswered questions...

1. What is the normal period of time IN THE NFL before a player who has suffered a concussion is allowed to PRACTICE with full contact? Everyone keeps condemning Belichick but I have yet to see this question answered.

2. Does the answer to number one depend on the severity of the concussion (i.e. how long the player is unconscious, if at all) and if it does...exactly what kind of concussion was Johnson diagnosed with the first time.

3. How many days after did Johnson participate in full contact practice? Johnson said four days later...which would be a Wednesday.

4. Who was responsible for clearing Johnson for full contact practice and was the information relayed to Belichick. The answer to this question would determine how much "heat" Belichick should get since it would be wrong for him to overrule medical staff.

My opinion on this is that it is Johnson's OPINION that his back to back concussions in 2002 is to blame for his current condition. However, the fact that he suffered multiple concussions over his career, and reported very few of them means that the 2002 incident cannot be reasonably held to be responsible for his condition. It also shows that he was an active participant in disregarding his health. He was an adult..."brave" enough to leave the team because he was going to be held out of a game and to confront Belichick so he has no excuse for not reporting his concussions or refusing to play. Lastly, considering how careful the Patriots are with injuries to their players, I find it difficult to believe that they would have treated Johnson's injury with any less care. Not saying it couldn't have happened, but the known history of the Patriots in regards to injuries should prompt any unbiased person to wait until the aforementioned questions are answered before passing judgment.

 

[PatsFanInVa]

It would be even more sad if BB decides to retire because of this. There's only so much crap a person can take without fighting back.

You might say as a straw that breaks a camel's back, that BB would "retire because of this." But I think he's here for a year and then some.

But a guy like BB retiring because "they said something mean"? Much more likely he'd hang 'em up because he needs to focus on his family or something (given that external events must have hit on the old home front in the last year or so.)

He's not the kind of guy that fuels these fires, so we forget them... which is best for both the public figure, and the public, in many cases.

Anyway, I like to think that BB is thick-skinned enough that he'll survive the words of an admitted crank addict.

I do think, however, that it's a sport that produces this kind of byproduct. I can't stop loving football... and bless his heart, Darryl Stingly (for example,) never really asked me to. TJ sort of does, in a way, saying that you're pushed to do grievous bodily harm to yourself. I want to believe in the public face of the Pats - the side that doesn't push Bruschi to play, the side that waits on Robert Edwards for years before regretfully letting him go. My gut tells me the "blue jersey" dynamic is right on, whether what TJ says about BB's attitude is accurate or not.

Even by his own account, TJ made a choice. The Pats staff is within their rights to present TJ that choice: deal or can't-deal. That the Pats staff is within their rights in presenting the situation as such is definitely a league concern.

And of course, the accuracy of TJ's account revolves around his perception of what happens if he can't play. Well, he's right. Not being able to practice or play if you have multiple concussions and own up to it, will probably result in being an unemployed football player.

As has been pointed out here, NFLPA does have a pension system.

But what we really don't have here is any kind of "smoking gun". We do have a system that encourages players to minimize their own injury concerns, and a system that takes concussions lightly, given the seriousness of the condition.

And we have oneee more thing.... a bunch of fans, who want the game to remain "pure" -- as physical, and as vicious, as possible. That's us. I include myself...

Raving hypocrites.

Of course, this solves nothing. I'm not about to stop glorifying the violent nature of football. I just have trouble wrapping my head around both the vilification of rules changes, and the implications of the TJ thread.


PFnV

 

[wrangler]

Reguardless of what anybody says it was TJ's decission!!!!! End of story.!

As was stated in another thread a coach can only go on the info he receives from his staff and the player in question.?

Example: Me in high school wanting to be a "STARTER". Huge ego thing at my tender age. Partial dislocation of my shoulder in practice. My mom was a nurse so I asked her before the up coming game to wrap my shoulder and upper arm. My own MOTHER did as requested and told me not to get hurt. lol

Long story short, I played the next 2 seasons (as a starter) with a bad shoulder, where I couldn't lift my elbow above my shoulder. Trainers and coaches never knew, I never told. (I played tight and split end on O and defensive end on D)

After 44 yrs I still have problems with my shoulder, guess I should go back to my HS and the media and tell how my coach MADE me play with a future debilitating injury.? Ya THINK?!!!!

Bottom line: Don't blame others for your bad decissions in life (ego maybe?). Have we digressed to the point that we have "NO FAULT" in our OWN decissions in life.????

 

[PatsMyBoyz!]

It would be even more sad if BB decides to retire because of this. There's only so much crap a person can take without fighting back.

That's my biggest fear. As someone very wise once said, "It's not climbing mountain that wears you down,it's the grain of sand in your shoe".
Sooner or later something's bound to give.

 

[PatsMyBoyz!]

Perhaps you could explain where you're getting your information from because the information that I have isn't enough for anyone, least of all Belichick, to get blamed. Here are the pertinent facts of which I'm aware.

1. Johnson is mentally screwed up and blames the concussions he suffered in the NFL, particularly his "back to back concussion in 2002"

2. Johnson DID suffer back to back concussions

3. Johnson suffered his second concussion during PRACTICE, NOT an actual game

4. Belichick and Johnson had a meeting AFTER Johnson left the team without permission and then returned

5. Belichick commented that both he and Ted "apologised" to each other in the meeting. The nature of Belichick's comments suggests that he made a general apology to soothe Ted's feelings for the benefit of the team. NOWHERE in Belichick's comments does it state that he apologised to Ted for "overruling the trainer and giving him a blue jersey to wear in practice".

6. Ted JOHNSON claims that Belichick said he "effed up"....the implication being that this alleged comment by Belichick was made in reference to Johnson wearing a blue jersey at practice. We do not know whether this particular phrase was indeed said by Belichick and EVEN IF IT WAS, whether it was said in reference to ANY SPECIFIC INCIDENT.

7. Ted Johnson claims to have suffered more than thirty concussions....to have played with concussions and NOT HAVE REPORTED these concussions


Let me know if you have any other information besides what I've presented because from that information once CANNOT draw ANY conclusions, certainly not that the "Patriots/Belichick show a lack of value for human life" or "run their organization in a disturbing manner". Here are some relevant unanswered questions...

1. What is the normal period of time IN THE NFL before a player who has suffered a concussion is allowed to PRACTICE with full contact? Everyone keeps condemning Belichick but I have yet to see this question answered.

2. Does the answer to number one depend on the severity of the concussion (i.e. how long the player is unconscious, if at all) and if it does...exactly what kind of concussion was Johnson diagnosed with the first time.

3. How many days after did Johnson participate in full contact practice? Johnson said four days later...which would be a Wednesday.

4. Who was responsible for clearing Johnson for full contact practice and was the information relayed to Belichick. The answer to this question would determine how much "heat" Belichick should get since it would be wrong for him to overrule medical staff.

My opinion on this is that it is Johnson's OPINION that his back to back concussions in 2002 is to blame for his current condition. However, the fact that he suffered multiple concussions over his career, and reported very few of them means that the 2002 incident cannot be reasonably held to be responsible for his condition. It also shows that he was an active participant in disregarding his health. He was an adult..."brave" enough to leave the team because he was going to be held out of a game and to confront Belichick so he has no excuse for not reporting his concussions or refusing to play. Lastly, considering how careful the Patriots are with injuries to their players, I find it difficult to believe that they would have treated Johnson's injury with any less care. Not saying it couldn't have happened, but the known history of the Patriots in regards to injuries should prompt any unbiased person to wait until the aforementioned questions are answered before passing judgment.

Excellent post-excellent points.:rocker:

 

[PatsMyBoyz!]

Perhaps you could explain where you're getting your information from because the information that I have isn't enough for anyone, least of all Belichick, to get blamed. Here are the pertinent facts of which I'm aware.

1. Johnson is mentally screwed up and blames the concussions he suffered in the NFL, particularly his "back to back concussion in 2002"

2. Johnson DID suffer back to back concussions

3. Johnson suffered his second concussion during PRACTICE, NOT an actual game

4. Belichick and Johnson had a meeting AFTER Johnson left the team without permission and then returned

5. Belichick commented that both he and Ted "apologised" to each other in the meeting. The nature of Belichick's comments suggests that he made a general apology to soothe Ted's feelings for the benefit of the team. NOWHERE in Belichick's comments does it state that he apologised to Ted for "overruling the trainer and giving him a blue jersey to wear in practice".

6. Ted JOHNSON claims that Belichick said he "effed up"....the implication being that this alleged comment by Belichick was made in reference to Johnson wearing a blue jersey at practice. We do not know whether this particular phrase was indeed said by Belichick and EVEN IF IT WAS, whether it was said in reference to ANY SPECIFIC INCIDENT.

7. Ted Johnson claims to have suffered more than thirty concussions....to have played with concussions and NOT HAVE REPORTED these concussions


Let me know if you have any other information besides what I've presented because from that information once CANNOT draw ANY conclusions, certainly not that the "Patriots/Belichick show a lack of value for human life" or "run their organization in a disturbing manner". Here are some relevant unanswered questions...

1. What is the normal period of time IN THE NFL before a player who has suffered a concussion is allowed to PRACTICE with full contact? Everyone keeps condemning Belichick but I have yet to see this question answered.

2. Does the answer to number one depend on the severity of the concussion (i.e. how long the player is unconscious, if at all) and if it does...exactly what kind of concussion was Johnson diagnosed with the first time.

3. How many days after did Johnson participate in full contact practice? Johnson said four days later...which would be a Wednesday.

4. Who was responsible for clearing Johnson for full contact practice and was the information relayed to Belichick. The answer to this question would determine how much "heat" Belichick should get since it would be wrong for him to overrule medical staff.

My opinion on this is that it is Johnson's OPINION that his back to back concussions in 2002 is to blame for his current condition. However, the fact that he suffered multiple concussions over his career, and reported very few of them means that the 2002 incident cannot be reasonably held to be responsible for his condition. It also shows that he was an active participant in disregarding his health. He was an adult..."brave" enough to leave the team because he was going to be held out of a game and to confront Belichick so he has no excuse for not reporting his concussions or refusing to play. Lastly, considering how careful the Patriots are with injuries to their players, I find it difficult to believe that they would have treated Johnson's injury with any less care. Not saying it couldn't have happened, but the known history of the Patriots in regards to injuries should prompt any unbiased person to wait until the aforementioned questions are answered before passing judgment.

Excellent points. This came out twice-sorry.

 

[DefenseRules]

That's my biggest fear. As someone very wise once said, "It's not climbing mountain that wears you down,it's the grain of sand in your shoe".
Sooner or later something's bound to give.

Amen to that. This stuff must be bothereing him.

 

[vyrago]

Good post. 1. . According to everyone concerned, and according to team records, Belichick overruled the Pats trainer when Johnson was not cleared for practice.
.

What "team records"? Where is this info coming from? And who is "everyone concerned."

 

[PatsMyBoyz!]

Amen to that. This stuff must be bothereing him.

It has to be-not necessarily any one event in particular but the cumulative effect of all this stuff crammed into a short period of time would get to anybody eventually. I wonder what the Globe will come up with next? Pics of him exiting Bridgete's apt?