The End Of Kickoffs?

[manxman2601]

If they want to make things better re kickoff, stop coming back from an ad break, having a kickoff and then going straight back to another damn ad break!!

 

[PlainOldEd]

Can't just scrap the PAT and leave only a 2pt conversion or nothing (i.e. a TD gets you either 6pt or 8pt) because that would affect the relationship of FGs to TDs.

I'd prefer one of the following:

• TD is worth 7pt, and you have the option of going for a 1pt conversion (ball placed in the same spot it is placed for the 2pt conversion). (So the TD gets you either 7pt or 8pt). Though in the record books, to keep things comparable before and after the change they might need to still only give 6pt to the person who scored the TD and have the remaining point be a team point (like a "team rebound" in NBA stats). Or maybe give the point to the placekicker, unless a 1pt conversion is done, in which case both points are given to the person who scored the conversion.
• TD is worth 6pt, option for 2pt conversion stays the same as it is now, but if you want to kick for 1pt, you spot the ball at the 13yd line (so a 30yd attempt) instead of at the 2.5yd line. Maybe even the 18 for a 35yd attempt.
• Have both 1pt and 2pt non-kick conversions while getting rid of kick conversions. For a 1pt conversion put the ball at the half-yard line, or maybe even the 1-foot line. For a 2pt conversion leave at the 2.5yd line like we do now.

with option 1 why would you ever not go for the extra point? In that scenario the TD should still be 6 pts, but you can either take one "free" point, or go for the traditional 2 pt conversion. I guess the same thing could be accomplished by saying if you go for the extra 1 pt and don't get it you are penalized 1 point.

 

[RodThePat]

If they want to make things better re kickoff, stop coming back from an ad break, having a kickoff and then going straight back to another damn ad break!!

Dear god, this. I've been trying to get my girlfriend into football for a while now, as she absolutely LOVED the show Friday Night Lights, and said to me that she would very much like for us to watch a real game together and that she was excited to know the rules and everything. Keep in mind, we're in Brazil where football doesn't really have a lot of exposure on the mainstream media. So we sit down to watch the Patriots play the Jets on Thanksgiving and the fact that there are 2, sometimes even 3 commercial breaks between a team scoring a TD and the opponent starting their drive completely soured her on the game. She found it really boring and downright unwatchable. And that sequence of 3 TDs in 52 seconds meant that she watched about one minute worth of football and about 12 of commercials. Pretty much erased any chance I could ever have of getting her into the Pats now.

 

[JR4]

My problem with PATs is, like Belichick's problem with them, that they are too automatic and are thus an essentially meaningless play.

So either make them meaningful or get rid of them.

I think the easiest thing to do is simply spot the ball at the 18 for PATs so they would be 35yd attempts instead of 19.5yd attempts.

I don't like these changes. Yeah the kick off is meaningless NOW since
it is much easier to force touchback!
The NFL of today's world is trying to make a violent sport much less violent.

Soon the football your father saw will be a just a memory of what use to be.
Good thing? Bad thing?
Just like the Gladiators of old in the future there may be no violent NFL.

 

[Sicilian]

Basic physics will tell you that a punt is safer than a kickoff. With a punt, you have the pursuers running downfield and most of the blockers at essentially a standstill. Assuming each player can run 20 mph at full speed, that's a 20mph collision (or a bit more once the return team gets going).

On a kickoff, you've got both sides running full speed at impact, making it a 40 mph collision. Again, this is all in general, but you've definitely got higher impact collisions on kickoffs.

I have no opinion either way. I've never been a big fan of kickoffs in particular, so if they removed them for something else I'd get used to it pretty quick... and let's be honest, so would 99.9% of all of you. Anyone who would stop watching football because of this rule change was never a real fan of football to begin with.

 

[signbabybrady]

I think you guys are failing to understand the logic in it being safer as you all seem to be fixated on the returner and not the other 21 players on the field.

On a kickoff there is a 10 yard neutral zone to gather speed. On a punt the two teams line up at the LOS and I think that is where the injuries would be saved.

I think the crux of this comes in what is easier to convert a 4th and 15 or an onside kick?

I don't hate the idea but not sure I like it enough for the change.

 

[DaBruinz]

I'd really love to see the data from the league that says that more players get hurt on kick-offs than any other play during the game..

 

[DaBruinz]

I have no opinion either way. I've never been a big fan of kickoffs in particular, so if they removed them for something else I'd get used to it pretty quick... and let's be honest, so would 99.9% of all of you. Anyone who would stop watching football because of this rule change was never a real fan of football to begin with.

Kick-offs have been a part of the game since day 1. Taking it out of the game is completely changing the game.

As for your BS claim, sorry, but getting rid of kick-offs would be followed by them wearing flags instead of tackling. And you damn well know it.

I have yet to see any evidence that there were more injuries on kick-offs than any other play during a game. All we have is Goodell's claims. And we already know that Goodell will exaggerate to the point of lying to make his case.

 

[Deus Irae]

 

[Steve102]

I hate it. that is all.

 

[Froob]

My problem with PATs is, like Belichick's problem with them, that they are too automatic and are thus an essentially meaningless play.

So either make them meaningful or get rid of them.

I think the easiest thing to do is simply spot the ball at the 18 for PATs so they would be 35yd attempts instead of 19.5yd attempts.

Didn't somebody lose a game the other day missing a pat? Chiefs maybe?

 

[ctpatsfan77]

BTW: does anyone else find it ironic that, according to PFT, the idea came from Greg Schiano?

The same Greg Schiano who is trying to kill the victory formation?

 

[Joey007]

So what about onside kicks??

 

[Sicilian]

Kick-offs have been a part of the game since day 1. Taking it out of the game is completely changing the game.

And this is the first change to the NFL that's ever happened?

As for your BS claim, sorry, but getting rid of kick-offs would be followed by them wearing flags instead of tackling. And you damn well know it.

Just like enacting a speed limit eventually led to the outlawing of cars, outlawing drinking and driving led to a (permanent) prohibition of alcohol, and gay marriage will eventually lead to people marrying their dogs. This logic has never stood up in any argument ever. It is possible to limit an action until you reach an acceptable level of risk and then stop, it happens all the time.

I have yet to see any evidence that there were more injuries on kick-offs than any other play during a game. All we have is Goodell's claims. And we already know that Goodell will exaggerate to the point of lying to make his case.

I have no evidence either way, but let me ask you this: What exactly would be to Goodell's benefit to get rid of the kickoff IF there was no evidence that it was more dangerous? If it's all show for the courtroom, he would only need to make the change if there was a reasonable chance it could be used against the NFL in a lawsuit. If no one could point to evidence that the NFL was endangering these players on kick-offs, there would be no reason to make the change.

 

[Deus Irae]

....Just like enacting a speed limit eventually led to the outlawing of cars, outlawing drinking and driving led to a (permanent) prohibition of alcohol, and gay marriage will eventually lead to people marrying their dogs. This logic has never stood up in any argument ever. It is possible to limit an action until you reach an acceptable level of risk and then stop, it happens all the time...

While it's certainly not 100%, slippery slope arguments have proven accurate time and again. It is, in fact, the basis for much of U.S. law, and it's huge in politics, as Ted Kennedy noted with his "half a loaf".

 

[RayClay]

I hate the idea, but if they needed a diiferent way to start a sequence...

Choose to start on your own one, or let the other team.

I suppose non half starting (after scores) could just be at the twenty to avoid whole games full of futility.

Start with four downs, of course.

I still hate it. I agree that kickoffs don't seem to be the cause of injuries more than any Other play.

If we had banned PATs we'd have Gronk.

They do need to address safety, but i wish they did it when they had a commish with more common sense.

 

[manxman2601]

Just like enacting a speed limit eventually led to the outlawing of cars, outlawing drinking and driving led to a (permanent) prohibition of alcohol, and gay marriage will eventually lead to people marrying their dogs. This logic has never stood up in any argument ever. It is possible to limit an action until you reach an acceptable level of risk and then stop, it happens all the time.

Sorry, but you're building a whole bunch of straw men there. It's not unreasonable to suggest that limiting contact on kickoff will lead to further rules limiting contact bearing in mind that the proposed new kickoff rules would be part of an already slippery slope, namely the changes in kickoff rules already in place.

 

[Sicilian]

While it's certainly not 100%, slippery slope arguments have proven accurate time and again. It is, in fact, the basis for much of U.S. law, and it's huge in politics, as Ted Kennedy noted with his "half a loaf".

Hyperbole may have gotten the better of me here. I just took exception to the notion that this rule suddenly is the first stepping stone to flag football and how I "damn well know it", when there are numerous examples of society being perfectly willing to accept dangerous behavior... assuming they've reached an acceptable level of mitigation.

 

[Sicilian]

Sorry, but you're building a whole bunch of straw men there. It's not unreasonable to suggest that limiting contact on kickoff will lead to further rules limiting contact bearing in mind that the proposed new kickoff rules would be part of an already slippery slope, namely the changes in kickoff rules already in place.

They're not trying to limit contact in general on kickoffs, they're trying to find a way to not have a combined 450-500 lbs of muscle slam together at 40 mph. That may happen once on a fluke play during a game, but it happens at least a half dozen times EVERY kickoff. I'm not sure this solution is the best one, but I can see why they would be mulling over options.

 

[fnordcircle]

I support pretty much any rule change which helps prevent injuries to other human beings, but I'm a wacko liberal pinko ***, apparently.