If Ridley continues to improve and Vereen shows growth.....

[Deus Irae]

So if Greg Schiano called tomorrow you don't think BB should accept the trade. That's fair enough I suppose, a little moronic but hey ho!

You see if it was me, I'd take the trade, draft Tavon Austin in the first next April (who can replace all Demps', Vereen's and even Woodhead's snaps and still add a couple of UDFA's.

You think our offense is good now.


BTW, thinking that trade is bad is like a Bengals fan saying they wouldn't trade Dalton for Luck. But if that's your approach then perhaps you need a mule to kick some sense in to you.

Your idea is an interesting one, although I think it's too soon for me to say that I'd make such a deal for Martin since I haven't seen enough of him in detail, and Adrian Peterson would certainly be a candidate to fit the "trade them all" sort of notion, as well. Of course, after making those sorts of trades, you'd have to look for more backups, but so what?

 

[manxman2601]

Your idea is an interesting one, although I think it's too soon for me to say that I'd make such a deal for Martin since I haven't seen enough of him in detail, and Adrian Peterson would certainly be a candidate to fit the "trade them all" sort of notion, as well. Of course, after making those sorts of trades, you'd have to look for more backups, but so what?

Bolden and Woodhead were both UDFA's so not that hard. Trade one of our 7ths and get BJGE back if necessary. It wouldn't be hard to replace Bolden and Woodhead's reps if your first two are Martin/Austin. They'd get most of the reps anyway.

All this is is a flippant remark turned into a hypothetical. The ignorant responses by a couple of posters has been illuminating.

 

[SwedishPat]

I'm guessing that Belichick and the Pats have made the calculation that running backs are too short-lived and too easily replaceable to pay top-dollar cap money. I infer that mostly from the fact that Belichick appears to be 100% committed to running back by committee so that he's always got a couple ready to go when one gets dinged. And, his willingness to let a proven back like Ben Jarvis Green-Ellis walk rather than get into a bidding war.

There is a very good reason for the pats not entering a bidding war with Green-Ellis. He wasn't anywhere near worth the money he received. Ridley showed much more talent last than Green-Ellis has ever shown.

 

[ausbacker]

There is a very good reason for the pats not entering a bidding war with Green-Ellis. He wasn't anywhere near worth the money he received. Ridley showed much more talent last than Green-Ellis has ever shown.

Green-Ellis is performing better than a lot of higher priced RB's this season. It's all relative when context is applied.

For the record, I was a fan of the Law Firm but I was also mindful of his limitations. As it goes, it seems to have worked out well for both the Bengals and the Patriots at this point in time.

Oh, and I'd trade everyone of our backs for Adrian Peterson. That man is a pleasure to watch.

 

[resdubwhite]

So who are we getting in the off season?
Peterson or Martin.

sure will miss Ridley. But thats football for you.

 

[mayoclinic]

So if Greg Schiano called tomorrow you don't think BB should accept the trade. That's fair enough I suppose, a little moronic but hey ho!

You see if it was me, I'd take the trade, draft Tavon Austin in the first next April (who can replace all Demps', Vereen's and even Woodhead's snaps and still add a couple of UDFA's.

You think our offense is good now.

BTW, thinking that trade is bad is like a Bengals fan saying they wouldn't trade Dalton for Luck. But if that's your approach then perhaps you need a mule to kick some sense in to you.

If this is how you think then you are rooting for the wrong team, because this team happens to believe that depth is extremely important. Doug Martin has 4.8 ypc, Ridley has 4.6. Do you really think that extra .2 ypc is worth trading all of the depth that Bolden, Vereen, Woodhead, and Demps provide? What if he gets hurt? Heck, what if he needs a breather?

Also, yeah Martin has more big play ability than Ridley, but we don't need tons of big plays out of the running game. We need consistency, we need to keep the defense honest, and we need to keep the offense on schedule with regards to down and distance. If the running game does those things, Brady is more than capable of points on the board. So no, I honestly don't think that Martin would help the offense all that much anyway.

I was one of the earliest Doug Martin fans on this board, and wanted the Pats to take him. Thought he was the real deal, and thought he would be a perfect fit for our offense - and I still think that. I also have been vocal on the draft board about believing that Tavon Austin would be a perfect fit as a multi-purpose Percy Harvin kind of threat in our offense. So I have no problem imagining a scenario such as Manx proposes being extremely explosive and productive.

But depth counts, too, and we have a very good RBBC group and an offense with too many weapons to stop. Edelman and Vereen are just scratching the surface of their ability, and while neither may be Martin and Austin, it's about finding players (at reasonable cost) who play within the scheme and the team. BB values experience, production, and the proven ability to work within the system, and I doubt he'd tinker with things.

 

[ausbacker]

I was one of the earliest Doug Martin fans on this board, and wanted the Pats to take him. Thought he was the real deal, and thought he would be a perfect fit for our offense - and I still think that. I also have been vocal on the draft board about believing that Tavon Austin would be a perfect fit as a multi-purpose Percy Harvin kind of threat in our offense. So I have no problem imagining a scenario such as Manx proposes being extremely explosive and productive.

But depth counts, too, and we have a very good RBBC group and an offense with too many weapons to stop. Edelman and Vereen are just scratching the surface of their ability, and while neither may be Martin and Austin, it's about finding players (at reasonable cost) who play within the scheme and the team. BB values experience, production, and the proven ability to work within the system, and I doubt he'd tinker with things.

I agree with you in regards to Tavon Austin mayo, especially your Percy Harvin role comparison. The kid looks like dynamite in a bottle.

 

[PATSYLICIOUS]

If Ridley continues on this pace and has back to back to back 1400 yard, 10 TD seasons it'll be interesting to see how hard the Patriots push to keep him around. I remember there being a thread a while back saying that we don't put $$ into the RB position like what teams pay for Forte, Foster, etc. but some of us pointed out that if it were a RB producing good #'s within our offense BB just may dish out the $6-8M or so per year that it may cost to keep that guy around. Especially someone young as Ridley. In that scenario I definitely see us offering him around $7M per to stay a few more years.

 

[PATSYLICIOUS]

As for Vereen we saw last week just how much of a weapon he could be for us. There's not another guy on the offense who can make a defense pay that hard for a small mistake like Bart Scott made on that play. As good as Woodhead is, Vereen can be a major upgrade but I wouldn't rule out both being here for the longterm. It will depend on Vereen's production but if he can make those plays somewhat consistently over the next 3 seasons it's going to be very hard to keep both him and Ridley, despite him not having #1 RB production. Remember the deal Michael Turner got, I'd imagine Vereen will at least produce and impress like Turner did in SD.

 

[patriotsdynasty12189]

So if Greg Schiano called tomorrow you don't think BB should accept the trade. That's fair enough I suppose, a little moronic but hey ho!

You see if it was me, I'd take the trade, draft Tavon Austin in the first next April (who can replace all Demps', Vereen's and even Woodhead's snaps and still add a couple of UDFA's.

You think our offense is good now.


BTW, thinking that trade is bad is like a Bengals fan saying they wouldn't trade Dalton for Luck. But if that's your approach then perhaps you need a mule to kick some sense in to you.

I'd probably take Dalton over Luck at this point. Daltons a great fit in Cincy and in his 2nd season, isnt struggling at all. Cincy is easily the most underrated team in the league.

 

[ForThoseAboutToRock]

If you were offered the ability to trade all of your RB depth for durable HOF quality, would you do it? I'm thinking of something like "what if 1996 Curtis Martin were available for this trade?"

You have to balance the issue of depth (lets assume the star RB doesn't miss significant time due to injury, which Curtis Martin didn't until his last season) versus having that one guy with the ability to produce in every game he laces em up - but the only backups available would be a massive drop off.

You can't give 1 back every carry for the whole season, so is it worth it to have the drop off?

If you have a running back by committee, then you have to rely on your personnel dept. to keep the cabinet stocked as the BJGE's get big(ish) contracts and move on. You'd also have to weigh-in the fact that your Curtis Martin quality RB would be expensive in his late 20's... would certainly affect how you would expend the remaining resources available for the rest of the guys on the cap.

 

[ausbacker]

If you were offered the ability to trade all of your RB depth for durable HOF quality, would you do it? I'm thinking of something like "what if 1996 Curtis Martin were available for this trade?"

You have to balance the issue of depth (lets assume the star RB doesn't miss significant time due to injury, which Curtis Martin didn't until his last season) versus having that one guy with the ability to produce in every game he laces em up - but the only backups available would be a massive drop off.

You can't give 1 back every carry for the whole season, so is it worth it to have the drop off?

If you have a running back by committee, then you have to rely on your personnel dept. to keep the cabinet stocked as the BJGE's get big(ish) contracts and move on. You'd also have to weigh-in the fact that your Curtis Martin quality RB would be expensive in his late 20's... would certainly affect how you would expend the remaining resources available for the rest of the guys on the cap.

To be honest, I am really pleased with the RB brigade. Ridley, Vereen, Woodhead, Bolden and Demps will all offer the Patriots something different over the next few years. It's been an amazing effort to collect that depth of talent.

 

[supafly]

To be honest, I am really pleased with the RB brigade. Ridley, Vereen, Woodhead, Bolden and Demps will all offer the Patriots something different over the next few years. It's been an amazing effort to collect that depth of talent.

Oh, absolutely. I couldn't agree more. Many seemed to be worried about a lack of much of a vet-presence this year, but it never really trickled down to me. I loved this group of backs going in.

Keeping Woodhead (who I keep forgetting is a FA) would be a great move, and I would hope that they can agree on something very fair and easy in the big picture.

As mayoclinic points out, those players that can really contribute to the "move" offense like Woodhead, Edelman, Welker, Vereen, Ridley, and Hernandez are extremely important going forward. Demps and an additional player or two via the draft/FA would help to replace the loss of one or two of those players, and could potentially make this into something even greater next year.

We have done a much better job of solidifying the trenches on the offensive line and with the power TE acquisitions, which allows to play more physically. Having the potential to beat them with speed, agility, shiftiness, and a high pace of hurry-up only leads to the best of both worlds in every way.

I would imagine Edelman definitely being a part of the bigger picture of the future here for multiple reasons, not to mention the fact that it won't likely take as much money to do so either.

Welker is the biggest question mark, and to me--Woodhead is somewhat of an unknown due to various reasons such as need, desire to stay by both sides, and potential contract asking price. I wouldn't expect them to be interested in anything more than 2 million per, possibly even slightly less.

 

[supafly]

I was one of the earliest Doug Martin fans on this board, and wanted the Pats to take him. Thought he was the real deal, and thought he would be a perfect fit for our offense - and I still think that.

Funny you should mention that because he was my very first RB taken in our fantasy draft, over all of the other well-known names out there. Just about everyone literally laughed at my choice, particularly due to it being so early on, but I wasn't going to chance losing out on him under any circumstance.

Doug Martin is certainly something special, and the fact that they manage to get him some great looks with screens/RB passes out of the backfield is even better, as he's proven several times to take a short little gainer 75 yards to the house.

Tampa Bay certainly looks to have their immediate dual-threat RB of the future. He has produced much more than LeSean McCoy or Ray Rice have this season in only his first year in the league.

I don't see Belichick changing his M.O. any time soon though, especially as Ridley has proven to be a great pickup for the lead carry role, and the others have added their stamp on their assignments and responsibilities.

Having a RBBC system offers the best of both worlds due to the fact that it allows us to be able to do just about everything in any given situation as others may be better at certain aspects. It also allows for great depth at the position in the meantime.

I think the thing that some do not realize is that we probably have at least one/two "homerun" threats currently on the team right now. There's no way that I'd want to see a trade done for any elite RB's, there's absolutely no need for it. We've got great monetary value contract-wise, great depth, and the ability to change pace with various roles. They are all also very young and probably haven't reached their ceiling yet, besides maybe Woodhead.

For those who'd want one of the pricey-RB's who have the ability to take it to the house on any given play, I remind you of the Matt Forte talk in the offseason...

The production, depth, and monetary steal that we get at the position is likely one of the best in the entire NFL and is probably only going to get better.

 

[mayoclinic]

Funny you should mention that because he was my very first RB taken in our fantasy draft, over all of the other well-known names out there. Just about everyone literally laughed at my choice, particularly due to it being so early on, but I wasn't going to chance losing out on him under any circumstance.

Doug Martin is certainly something special, and the fact that they manage to get him some great looks with screens/RB passes out of the backfield is even better, as he's proven several times to take a short little gainer 75 yards to the house.

Tampa Bay certainly looks to have their immediate dual-threat RB of the future. He has produced much more than LeSean McCoy or Ray Rice have this season in only his first year in the league.

From Ye Old Mocke Draft Thread (2012 version):

*** Trade: Pats trade #31 (600 points) to Indianapolis for #34 and 136 (598 points).

34. Doug Martin, RB, Boise St. 5'9" 223#.

Beast! Pats go offense with their first pick and the fans howl! But imagine if it were Trent Richardson at 27. The "muscle hamster" is a bowling-ball type of multiple purpose threat in the Ray Rice mold. Martin commands an intoxicating fusion of core strength, explosiveness, and agility. He can absolutely blast it between the tackles, and he can also be extremely effective outside. Most importantly, he's got the core strength, the core flexibility, the fluidity, and the lateral agility to consistently be a threat, on any given play, to go through you or around you. Martin's 10.95 Agility Score (short shuttle plus 3-cone time) compares favorably with backs such as Ray Rice and Matt Forte. Martin is also a solid receiver and blocker who can be as effective in the passing game as in the running game. And he's an excellent punt and kickoff returner. Put it all together and you have a complete "4 down" player who can be a workhorse and who can compliment the existing RBBC and integrate into the passing attack.

Why should the Pats use a high draft pick on a RB? The Pats need to develop the running game and more balance on offense. Tedy Bruschi among others has suggested this. It would take pressure off Tom Brady and probably extend his career, as well as make the offense less predictable and more effective. While I fully expect Shane Vereen to be a superb offensive weapon for the Pats, there are signs that the Pats are not content with just Vereen, Ridley and Woodhead. They have signed 2 FBs recently, and they have hosted several RBs for visits, including Martin and Virginia Tech RB David Wilson, both projected 1st-2nd round prospects, so they seem to be open to the possibility of spending a high pick on a RB. Josh McDaniels used the #12 pick overall in 2009 on Knowshon Moreno in his first draft as HC of the Broncos, and it seems that McDaniels values RBs as a key component of the offense more than Bill O'Brien did. So it's not out of the question. And Martin would be solid value at #34. I wouldn't be surprised if he ends up being a better pro than Trent Richardson.

Barring an unlikely and expensive trade with Chicago for Matt Forte, Martin represents the best option for the Pats to acquire a RB who can be a workhorse and a difference maker in both the running and passing games. Martin and Shane Vereen should complement each other well - somewhat analogous to having Rob Gronkowski and Aaron Hernandez at TE. Martin, Vereen, Gronkowski, Hernandez, Welker and Lloyd would give Brady an amazing complement of offensive weapons.

http://www.patsfans.com/new-england...2-mock-draft-thread-page114.html#post3025694 (post #1135)

Obviously, that was written before Ridley proved that he was a stud horse, making using a high draft pick on Martin unnecessary. But I stand by my evaluation of the kid, and by my call for more emphasis on and integration of the running game into the offense.

Incidentally, I had the Colts trading up to take Coby Fleener in the trade. Martin ended up going #31, Fleener #34.

I don't see Belichick changing his M.O. any time soon though, especially as Ridley has proven to be a great pickup for the lead carry role, and the others have added their stamp on their assignments and responsibilities.

Having a RBBC system offers the best of both worlds due to the fact that it allows us to be able to do just about everything in any given situation as others may be better at certain aspects. It also allows for great depth at the position in the meantime.

I think the thing that some do not realize is that we probably have at least one/two "homerun" threats currently on the team right now. There's no way that I'd want to see a trade done for any elite RB's, there's absolutely no need for it. We've got great monetary value contract-wise, great depth, and the ability to change pace with various roles. They are all also very young and probably haven't reached their ceiling yet, besides maybe Woodhead.

For those who'd want one of the pricey-RB's who have the ability to take it to the house on any given play, I remind you of the Matt Forte talk in the offseason...

The production, depth, and monetary steal that we get at the position is likely one of the best in the entire NFL and is probably only going to get better.

I agree. Edelman and Vereen are both homerun threats, as both showed with long TDs against the Jets (plus Edelman's PR TD the week before). Demps will be as well is he can pick up the offense and develop as a RB/WR hybrid. I'd be thrilled to add guys like Tavon Austin or De'Anthony Thompson (2014), but only if they are available in the right range. There's no need to reach, and no need to overspend.

 

[PATSYLICIOUS]

What's scary about Martin is he didn't really hit his stride until week 6 or so. That was his first game with above average #'s (120 total yards and a TD). And here he stands tied with Foster as the most productive back in the league ,could go either way with those 2 but they're clearlly the top 2 numbers wise. Imagine how he'll be next year.

As for the whole trading our whole RB stable for one stud argument, is that factoring in salary? Because our 4 guys are playing for dirt cheap, and Ridley/Vereen/Bolden are locked up the next few years at that rate. I don't think I'd trade THAT for one guy who's going to take up $8M+ in cap space. But if we're taking the money out of the equation, I think I'd take AP in a heartbeat.

 

[Big-T]

I like the current blend of RBs on the roster:

Ridley - pretty fast, pretty strong. A combination of the other backs.
Bolden - Power.
Vereen - great hands, good speed, home run threat.
Woodhead - great hands, good speed.
Demps - Fastest player in the NFL when he returns next season, home run threat.

BB will know what he wants to do with them all when it comes to handing out contracts and will likely keep the backs he wants.

 

[borg]

I'd trade them all for Doug Martin.

The Patriots running game has produced 1581 yds/369 atts = 4.3 yds/att = 18 TDs.
The TB Bucs running game has produced 1339 yds/295 atts = 4.5 yds/att = 11 TDs

Pats RBs have caught 464 yds/ 39 catches = 11.9 yds/ catch = 3 TDs
Bucs RBs have caught 408 yds/ 46 catches = 8.9 yds/ catch = 1 TD

No doubt Martin is the most complete back....1050 yds rushing/ 332 yds receiving =1382 total yds. But from a big picture standpoint, the Patriots have options in case of RB injury. The Bucs have all their eggs in one player. Just look at Dallas. Once Demarco Murray went down....Dallas had no running game and no hope.
The Pats RB collection is the most complete group/deep that I can remember....for the cost of a #2, #3, and FAs......Epic Win for the boys in Blue and Silver

 

[Kontradiction]

The Patriots running game has produced 1581 yds/369 atts = 4.3 yds/att = 18 TDs.
The TB Bucs running game has produced 1339 yds/295 atts = 4.5 yds/att = 11 TDs

Pats RBs have caught 464 yds/ 39 catches = 11.9 yds/ catch = 3 TDs
Bucs RBs have caught 408 yds/ 46 catches = 8.9 yds/ catch = 1 TD

No doubt Martin is the most complete back....1050 yds rushing/ 332 yds receiving =1382 total yds. But from a big picture standpoint, the Patriots have options in case of RB injury. The Bucs have all their eggs in one player. Just look at Dallas. Once Demarco Murray went down....Dallas had no running game and no hope.
The Pats RB collection is the most complete group/deep that I can remember....for the cost of a #2, #3, and FAs......Epic Win for the boys in Blue and Silver

I don't have any doubt, though, that Tampa Bay will build a RBBC with Martin being the most featured back in their group going into next season though.

 

[The Gr8est]

I like the current blend of RBs on the roster:

Ridley - pretty fast, pretty strong. A combination of the other backs.
Bolden - Power.
Vereen - great hands, good speed, home run threat.
Woodhead - great hands, good speed. Great knowledge of the offense and Pats' playbook.
Demps - Fastest player in the NFL when he returns next season, home run threat.

BB will know what he wants to do with them all when it comes to handing out contracts and will likely keep the backs he wants.

Just added a bit to Woodhead's description to more accurately guage his value to the Pats.