Wilson and Dennard.... more interceptions than all other Pats DBs combined

[RI Patriots fan]

......have more interceptions (7) for the Patriots than Arrington, Chung, Cole, Dowling, Ebner, Gregory, Martin, McCourty, and Talib....combined.

And before anyone brings up injuries, remember that Dennard was out for the first 4 games of the season and he still has 3 interceptions.

Chandler Jones seems to get all the Rookie press but as he seems to be fading (and I love Jones, don't get me wrong) our young secondary seems to be growing.

Through 10 games, Dennard and Wilson have combined for 51 tackles, 1 tackle for loss, 2 fumble recoveries, 7 interceptions, 1 TD, and 11 passes defended.

Imagine if some of our veterans could be half as productive.

 

[Spergon Wynn]

I really like Dennard. Him and Talib could be a mean combo.

Of course, I liked Darius Butler his rookie year too...

 

[supafly]

I think that both of those players have a nice ceiling above them in terms of potential and talent.

I also don't feel 100% comfortable with them out there either, but that is more of just the rookie learning curve.

I do like those choices much better than Arrington and Chung though, maybe even Gregory too. May as well get the rookies some live game reps and allow them to progress, especially since it will make it easier to try and determine where our biggest weaknesses are come draft time.

I would be very happy with one choice each for CB/S from either the draft, FA, or a combination of the two choices, assuming that Talib is re-upped in the offseason of course.

 

[nekromantique]

......have more interceptions (7) for the Patriots than Arrington, Chung, Cole, Dowling, Ebner, Gregory, Martin, McCourty, and Talib....combined.

uh...martin, ebner and cole are primarily special teams players...cole is getting more defensive duties lately because Arrington is awful. talib has played all of one game with the pats.

I like dennard and wilson (though I don't necessarily see wilson ever being the full-time starter at safety)...but its a silly list.




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[supafly]

uh...martin, ebner and cole are primarily special teams players...cole is getting more defensive duties lately because Arrington is awful. talib has played all of one game with the pats.

I like dennard and wilson (though I don't necessarily see wilson ever being the full-time starter at safety)...but its a silly list.




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Oddly enough, I don't put as much focus personally into the whole INT factor. We saw many do that last year with Arrington, while other numbers pointed to him sucking on ridiculous levels.

I think that Wilson and Dennard have some nice potential in front of them, but I wouldn't necessarily judge their season based on the INT's alone per se.

Not that I'm necessarily knocking them either...

 

[RI Patriots fan]

uh...martin, ebner and cole are primarily special teams players...cole is getting more defensive duties lately because Arrington is awful. talib has played all of one game with the pats.

I like dennard and wilson (though I don't necessarily see wilson ever being the full-time starter at safety)...but its a silly list.




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Ok...just for you I'll narrow it down to "more interceptions than Arrington, Chung, Gregory, and McCourty (all veteran starters)....combined".

That would be 7 interceptions for the rookies....4 interceptions for the veterans. Still impressive in my opinion.

 

[RI Patriots fan]

Oddly enough, I don't put as much focus personally into the whole INT factor. We saw many do that last year with Arrington, while other numbers pointed to him sucking on ridiculous levels.

I think that Wilson and Dennard have some nice potential in front of them, but I wouldn't necessarily judge their season based on the INT's alone per se.

Not that I'm necessarily knocking them either...

Arrington wasn't a rookie last year. He was in his 3rd year. I think that for these guys to be doing what they're doing in their rookie year is very impressive.

 

[supafly]

Arrington wasn't a rookie last year. He was in his 3rd year. I think that for these guys to be doing what they're doing in their rookie year is very impressive.

No I'm not saying anything about Arrington being a rookie, I am saying that he led the NFL in INT's last year and sucked overall though.

I will agree that Wilson and Dennard have looked okay during their rookie years, but let's also remember that Wilson was directly in Belichick's doghouse as currently as last week and repeated the same ridiculous mistake 2 games in a row of letting someone get behind him while standing on the 2 yard line.

Also it was just last week that many here were questioning Dennard's skills too. One game doesn't exactly change many perceptions.

In the case of sounding too overly critical or negative (which isn't the intent) I will say that you have a nice point about them being rookies and taking advantage of turnovers and mistakes. As I said, they both likely have nice ceilings in front of them.

 

[RI Patriots fan]

No I'm not saying anything about Arrington being a rookie, I am saying that he led the NFL in INT's last year and sucked overall though.

I will agree that Wilson and Dennard have looked okay during their rookie years, but let's also remember that Wilson was directly in Belichick's doghouse as currently as last week and repeated the same ridiculous mistake 2 games in a row of letting someone get behind him while standing on the 2 yard line.

Also it was just last week that many here were questioning Dennard's skills too. One game doesn't exactly change many perceptions.

In the case of sounding too overly critical or negative (which isn't the intent) I will say that you have a nice point about them being rookies and taking advantage of turnovers and mistakes. As I said, they both likely have nice ceilings in front of them.

How would you compare them to the 4 veterans that I mentioned?

 

[supafly]

How would you compare them to the 4 veterans that I mentioned?

Well first let me reiterate the fact that it is nice to see rookies contributing in their first year, and that you have a good point as I mentioned.

I think that we'd only have to go back to some of the threads a few days ago to realize some of the concerns about the rookies in coverage, so I hope that they continue to progress in coverage.

I would not compare them much to McCourty, since he is currently either 2nd or 3rd in the entire NFL in completion percentage from opposing QB's at 43.2% (Cromartie is slightly ahead of him at 43.1%). Just because McCourty doesn't have as many picks does not necessarily mean that he isn't a much better option in our secondary, and I think that he is much better as a FS with our current personnel.

As I said, I think that Arrington sucks...and I have all of last year too, so that one is easy.

Chung is a great "in the box" option and brings a lot to the run stopping game, but his coverage is horrid too.

Talib is yet to be determined, but he himself admitted to having a "very sloppy game" yesterday. Hopefully his potential one on one coverage can be a nice addition to the secondary and allow the defense to apply more pressure overall.

In other words, the bar is set kind of low besides McCourty, but getting INT's is much better than NOT getting INT's. It is their coverage overall that I am worried about, as are many others. Hopefully they grow into something nice, and as I said--their ceiling is rather high in my opinion.

 

[chasa]

well its a shame that talib only has one int in one game.

 

[supafly]

well its a shame that talib only has one int in one game.

I didn't get a chance to see the first TD that he allowed, due to the coverage of the CLE/DAL game in OT which pissed me off more than I care to admit. From all accounts though, he was supposedly right there with his man from what I understand--which is obviously a very good thing.

If he can offer more in one on one coverage with Dennard, then the defensive schemes themselves may change a bit which would allow some more pressure overall.

He has been consistently good for an INT every few games or so throughout his career, so that's got to mean something positive.

If we can re-up him in the offseason and build a bit through the draft and FA with a safety and CB pickup, this secondary can really start to go back to where we saw it in the past in a very positive way.

 

[RI Patriots fan]

Well first let me reiterate the fact that it is nice to see rookies contributing in their first year, and that you have a good point as I mentioned.

I think that we'd only have to go back to some of the threads a few days ago to realize some of the concerns about the rookies in coverage, so I hope that they continue to progress in coverage.

I would not compare them much to McCourty, since he is currently either 2nd or 3rd in the entire NFL in completion percentage from opposing QB's at 43.2% (Cromartie is slightly ahead of him at 43.1%). Just because McCourty doesn't have as many picks does not necessarily mean that he isn't a much better option in our secondary, and I think that he is much better as a FS with our current personnel.

As I said, I think that Arrington sucks...and I have all of last year too, so that one is easy.

Chung is a great "in the box" option and brings a lot to the run stopping game, but his coverage is horrid too.

Talib is yet to be determined, but he himself admitted to having a "very sloppy game" yesterday. Hopefully his potential one on one coverage can be a nice addition to the secondary and allow the defense to apply more pressure overall.

In other words, the bar is set kind of low besides McCourty, but getting INT's is much better than NOT getting INT's. It is their coverage overall that I am worried about, as are many others. Hopefully they grow into something nice, and as I said--their ceiling is rather high in my opinion.

So if I'm reading you correctly it would seem that you rank them behind McCourty but ahead of everyone else in the secondary?
As you mentioned, the bar is set low (unfortunately) but thank goodness we choose these rookies. Imagine where we'd be if they performed as well as the veterans (minus McCourty)

 

[supafly]

So if I'm reading you correctly it would seem that you rank them behind McCourty but ahead of everyone else in the secondary?
As you mentioned, the bar is set low (unfortunately) but thank goodness we choose these rookies. Imagine where we'd be if they performed as well as the veterans (minus McCourty)

There was no intent to offend you, but from what I am understanding you are saying that most of our veterans are rating at somewhere around 2/10 or 3/10, and then you are praising the rookies for coming in slightly higher (which they may not even really be, seeing as how my original example of Arrington last year leading the NFL in INT's would prove otherwise...since he still sucked)?

I've said it in every post, yet I will say it again--

It's good to see the rookies getting involved in the turnover game, since that is where our defense makes its living. If they hadn't been involved in the turnover game I'd be rather surprised, since they have such a positive turnover ratio overall and the rookies are getting reps now, BUT I'm not entirely sure that we can properly judge them based off of that alone.

In other words, I think we should all give them a + rating for the turnovers that they have created and taken advantage of, but there are plenty of -'s for both Wilson and Dennard too.

Once again, I think that their ceiling is rather high, and that they could evolve into being very good players in the secondary.

I also think that there would be many WRs who would absolutely abuse them too though, and that thought is shared by looking at some of the threads from just 48 hours ago. It is also apparently shared by Belichick too, as he pulled Wilson out of the last game vs BUF relatively early for making some of the same mistakes over and over again.

I think that you make a nice point in stating that they have created some turnovers, but I don't think that paints the whole picture either...hence my original example of someone like Arrington (even though you don't agree because Arrington was in his 2nd year last year as a UDFA, whereas Wilson is in his first as a 2nd round pick).

 

[Get it shawtaay]

How would you compare them to the 4 veterans that I mentioned?

I'll bite.

Arrington 'is what he is.' I've seen this discussed at length on here. He seems like a good dude and he plays hard but other than that, there's not much there.

Chung a pretty good safety talent except for the fact that he lacks an "it" factor which the being good requires - being able to think while playing. Some players have that and some don't. He's fast, he hits hard, he strong, he can change directions, he plays with passion... but he doesn't have the mental capacity. He's only comfortable when he gets to play in the box now, and that role is joining the dinosaurs.

Which brings me to Dennard. What makes him an exciting player to me is that he looks to have the one thing Chung (and most NFL players) lack. His technique is ugly and he's out of position a lot, and he gives up plays... but he's seemingly always improvising. You could see him realize that ball was underthrown and break on it, or in the Jets game peel off his man and come up 15 yards in anticipation of a stop (good thing the QB was Sanchez...). He needs to be reined in a bit, but the game comes to him, and he learns from each snap. That's why players like him are ****y all the time, they're not in above their head. Could be our own Brent Grimes.

Cole is some random vet. Don't know much about him, except my friends who follow the Jets always wanted him to get PT. Nothing noteworthy.

And Ras-I Dowling is not a veteran other than in the technical sense. Elite caliber talent - speed, COD skills, length. The gamble was worth it at pick 33 IMO because players like him are truly rare. If he stays healthy for a season and learns NFL game speed you guys will be all over his nuts.

 

[Sweet Chin Music33]

......have more interceptions (7) for the Patriots than Arrington, Chung, Cole, Dowling, Ebner, Gregory, Martin, McCourty, and Talib....combined.

Its not really that impressive. Most of that list are players who have no business starting for an NFL team.

 

[Sweet Chin Music33]

Chung a pretty good safety talent except for the fact that he lacks an "it" factor which the being good requires - being able to think while playing. Some players have that and some don't. He's fast, he hits hard, he strong, he can change directions, he plays with passion... but he doesn't have the mental capacity. He's only comfortable when he gets to play in the box now, and that role is joining the dinosaurs.

Chung has never done a thing. He is almost in the Brandon Meriweather level of being overrated.

 

[ausbacker]

Chung has never done a thing. He is almost in the Brandon Meriweather level of being overrated.

Chung is far more overrated than Meriweather ever was. At least Meriweather would lay the smack down every now and then.

 

[Get it shawtaay]

Chung has never done a thing. He is almost in the Brandon Meriweather level of being overrated.

First of all, my point wasn't that he's good to begin with. He's a flawed player and that probably never changes. Which of my statements about Chung's athleticism and positives do you disagree with?

I don't think he ever "did anything" but there were flashes in 2010. Breakup in the endzone against the Ravens that changed the game, near-impossible open field tackle at the end of the Green Bay tackle that forced 4th down and made them unable to spike the ball. Some big hits against the Steelers that turned into a Ward drop, Sanders INT, and 3rd down stop on Wallace.

The kid isn't a good player but he does have some attributes going for him. Belichick saw those and so did other teams - which is why teams had him up there with William Moore and Louis Delmas in pre-draft. Its unfortunate that the skill that makes all the difference seems to be missing.

 

[Sweet Chin Music33]

Chung is far more overrated than Meriweather ever was. At least Meriweather would lay the smack down every now and then.

I guess you are right.

Even though he coughed up his fair share of big plays, he at least wasn't afraid to gamble....

I'd rather a guy attempt to make a play......than sitting back and watching the opposing team make completion after completion in underbelly of the zone, and over the top of the safeties.