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Belichick comments on inconsistent criteria for HOF induction & specifically kicker


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Re: Belichick comments on inconsistent criteria for HOF induction & specifically kick

Special teams are a part of the game. If people are going to insist that punters and kickers somehow don't belong in the HOF because they're somehow not "real" or valuable football players, then that part of the game needs to be removed from the sport.

Either give them a fair shake in HOF balloting, or get rid of special teams play. Anyone who watched the Patriots-Giants Super Bowl this past season, and didn't get how important the ST play in that game was, is clueless about the sport.

Absolutely. And, while I say this with my tongue firmly planted in my cheek, I do think that it is ironic that the Hall of Fame of the National "Football" League only includes one player whose sole expertise was contacting the "Ball" with his "Foot" in a consistently excellent way.

More seriously, you are spot on about ST play in general and the kicking game in particular.

In how many games every season does the K contribute more points than any other player on the team? In how many games does a Punter's ability to give his team consistently superior field position on Defense or pin a team deep in its own end late in a game turn the tide of the game? How many games are turned into two score games by a 40+ yard FG in adverse conditions? How many games are won or lost because a K does or doesn't make an FG?

If we want to redefine the game in such a way as to value "Plays from Scrimmage" over all others, then, let's just give a team the ball on its own 20 after their opponent scores, or, if a team fails to gain ten yards on three plays after it has a first down, let's assign a pre-determined distance from the current line of scrimmage on which the opposing team can take possession in lieu of even playing fourth down and making a team even go to the trouble of punting or let's give a team one, two or three points automatically for getting the ball inside the 40, 30 or 20 yard line of its opponent in lieu of attempting an FG.
 
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Re: Belichick comments on inconsistent criteria for HOF induction & specifically kick

So then lets put Bo Jackson and countless others in the HOF too then?



I take it you never saw G Sayers play.... :rolleyes:
 
Re: Belichick comments on inconsistent criteria for HOF induction & specifically kick

I could not disagree more.

To get involved in the Andy Johnson-Mo Lewis debate on special teams players in the HOF. I got to agree with Mo after one addition.

If teams hate receiving kickoffs because that damn gunner then he is better than a QB when it comes to HOF consideration. I think the problem is using Slater as an example.

Hester is a better example of a special teams player that reaches that level.

Hester is (or was) feared as a returner more than say, Hester the wide receiver (nee corner back.)
 
Re: Belichick comments on inconsistent criteria for HOF induction & specifically kick

Steve Tasker is HOF worthy

I disagree. He was a good player to have on your team, and made some very good contribtions, but HOF, no chance.
 
Re: Belichick comments on inconsistent criteria for HOF induction & specifically kick

Special teams are a part of the game. If people are going to insist that punters and kickers somehow don't belong in the HOF because they're somehow not "real" or valuable football players, then that part of the game needs to be removed from the sport.

Either give them a fair shake in HOF balloting, or get rid of special teams play. Anyone who watched the Patriots-Giants Super Bowl this past season, and didn't get how important the ST play in that game was, is clueless about the sport.

There is a tremendous difference between irrelevant and HOF worthy. A role can be necessary but still a much lesser role, worthy of less recognition.
By your standard the best hot dog vendor should be inducted into the Patriots HOF or we should do away with hot dog vendors. Or a less annoyoing analody, an equal amount of position coaches and HCs should be inducted in the HOF or we should get rid of position coaches.
 
Re: Belichick comments on inconsistent criteria for HOF induction & specifically kick

I disagree. He was a good player to have on your team, and made some very good contribtions, but HOF, no chance.

He was somebody that you had to game plan around, the Bills dominated the AFC for half a decade, and he was a vital player for them, made seven pro bowls. Arguably he is the best ST player ever, certainly the best non kicker/non returner
 
Re: Belichick comments on inconsistent criteria for HOF induction & specifically kick

There is a tremendous difference between irrelevant and HOF worthy. A role can be necessary but still a much lesser role, worthy of less recognition.
By your standard the best hot dog vendor should be inducted into the Patriots HOF or we should do away with hot dog vendors. Or a less annoyoing analody, an equal amount of position coaches and HCs should be inducted in the HOF or we should get rid of position coaches.

You've had a lot of good takes over the years, and you've had a lot of takes where we've disagreed vehemently. This take of yours, however, may be the worst you've ever posted. It's ridiculous on so many levels that I wouldn't even know where to begin dealing with it in a manner acceptable to this forum.

That being the case, I'll just put this thread on ignore rather than ending up coming back and feeling a need to comment further.
 
Re: Belichick comments on inconsistent criteria for HOF induction & specifically kick

You've had a lot of good takes over the years, and you've had a lot of takes where we've disagreed vehemently. This take of yours, however, may be the worst you've ever posted. It's ridiculous on so many levels that I wouldn't even know where to begin dealing with it in a manner acceptable to this forum.

That being the case, I'll just put this thread on ignore rather than ending up coming back and feeling a need to comment further.
Andy Johnson is the master of Strawman fallacies among many other logical fallacies. This is yet another one.
 
Re: Belichick comments on inconsistent criteria for HOF induction & specifically kick

So then lets put Bo Jackson and countless others in the HOF too then?
I think Bo Jackson is the greatest athlete I've ever seen but he didn't last long enough to warrant HOF consideration.
 
Re: Belichick comments on inconsistent criteria for HOF induction & specifically kick

I take it you never saw G Sayers play.... :rolleyes:


I was thinking the same thing. After Jim Brown Sayers was the best.

I don't agree with Namath though, who was also brought up in this thread. He might be the best example of what's wrong with the writers making the choices.
 
Re: Belichick comments on inconsistent criteria for HOF induction & specifically kick

I was thinking the same thing. After Jim Brown Sayers was the best.



Yup, Sayers was the 2nd best RB i have seen after the Best FB player I have seen J Brown.


I don't agree with Namath though, who was also brought up in this thread. He might be the best example of what's wrong with the writers making the choices.


Joe really got in the HOF on the basis of SB 3 and what it meant to the history of the game. I don't view him as being a real HOF QB.
 
Re: Belichick comments on inconsistent criteria for HOF induction & specifically kick

Namath didn't get in on his talents, bit what he did for the AFC merits HOF, he really made the conference relevant.
 
Re: Belichick comments on inconsistent criteria for HOF induction & specifically kick

Namath didn't get in on his talents, bit what he did for the AFC merits HOF, he really made the conference relevant.

He may get credit for that but the AFL won the SB the following year also, so it would have happened anyway.
 
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Re: Belichick comments on inconsistent criteria for HOF induction & specifically kick

He was somebody that you had to game plan around, the Bills dominated the AFC for half a decade, and he was a vital player for them, made seven pro bowls. Arguably he is the best ST player ever, certainly the best non kicker/non returner

Dude, seriously? You don't game plan around a special team coverage guy.
 
Re: Belichick comments on inconsistent criteria for HOF induction & specifically kick

The fact that someone always makes sure to vote no so that no one is unanimous has always bothered me. I'm a page or two late, but I think that unwritten rule articulates just how asinine the HOF selection process is.
 
Re: Belichick comments on inconsistent criteria for HOF induction & specifically kick

A football roster is made up of 3 equally important teams.

Offense, Defense and Special teams.

If offensive players and defensive players are eligible for the HOF, then why not special teams?

Im not advocating for gunners and up-backs......but a great kicker or a punter can be the difference between a win and a loss just as much as anyone when the game is on the line.
 
Re: Belichick comments on inconsistent criteria for HOF induction & specifically kick

A football roster is made up of 3 equally important teams.

Offense, Defense and Special teams.

If offensive players and defensive players are eligible for the HOF, then why not special teams?

Im not advocating for gunners and up-backs......but a great kicker or a punter can be the difference between a win and a loss just as much as anyone when the game is on the line.

Equally important? Not even close. Important? Yes, equally? No way.

BTW, if a punter who kicks 5 times a game can be HOF worthy why wouldn't the Tasker or Slater kind of guy who participates in 25 plays a game be?
 
Re: Belichick comments on inconsistent criteria for HOF induction & specifically kick

Dude, seriously? You don't game plan around a special team coverage guy.

Parcells disagrees
 
Re: Belichick comments on inconsistent criteria for HOF induction & specifically kick

Parcells disagrees

Please show me an example of Bill Parcells stating that he built a game plan around another teams kick coverer.
 
Re: Belichick comments on inconsistent criteria for HOF induction & specifically kick

Equally important? Not even close. Important? Yes, equally? No way.

BTW, if a punter who kicks 5 times a game can be HOF worthy why wouldn't the Tasker or Slater kind of guy who participates in 25 plays a game be?

BB would disagree with you.

Tasker is a little different than Slater. I have no argument about Tasker. A little premature to compare Tasker to Slater.
 
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