Constructive defensive thread

[supafly]

I really like McCourty at safety and think he could be a league leading safety providing the Pats commit to him at the position. I like Dennard and think he can be league average at worst, if they re-sign Talib, then we could be looking at an effective tandem and I still hope that Dowling can get an extended run of fitness because I think his upside is really good. That leaves us only in desperate need of another safety as I'm yet to be convinced that Tavon Wilson is the guy.

I really like DMcC at safety too, especially considering how much the position has been a major weakness.

 

[The Brandon Five]

That Superbowl run was fluky.
game one they faced tim tebow who could barely throw
game two joe flacco lead his team to a score with ease, but the pats got breaks.

There is a game plan other teams have figured out to shred the defense when they need to.

I'm extremely interested to see how alex smith performs against the defense.

That defense gave up 19 points in the SB. That should have been enough to win. You can't blame the D for:

1. A safety on the first offensive play
2. Brady and Welker failing to connect on the same play that was a
99 yard TD in Week 1
3. Tom throwing a deep pick to a crippled tight end
4. Multiple dropped passes

Eli had one TD in the game. They allowed Bradshaw to score to get the ball back. I hardly call that "getting shredded".

 

[Big-T]

If you look at the stats, once again the top defenses in the league are the aggressive get to the QB types.

Give McCourty license to roam, play aggressive bump & run coverage with Dennard & Talib and send Mayo and/or Spikes on the blitz (both have shown some talent in forcing pressure when a blitz is actually dialed up).

All the above is of course, a stark contrast to what is usually seen by the Patriots defense. The reason they look scared when a QB drops back (IMO) is because they aren't comfortable sitting in zones and playing in a passive way.

There are some talented players on the Patriots defense so it can't be personnel issues and it doesn't necessarily have to be a coaching issue, a more aggressive scheme can hide a lot of faults...look at the yardage the Rams picked up (and points for that matter) and how uncomfortable Fitzpatrick looked on the rare occasion the Patriots sent more than 4.

 

[jmg17]

No time to read everyone's post so...

Tough to be a "statistically amazing" defense when your opponents are 2 or 3

scores down late almost always. You don't run simple draws in those

situations. You fling it, a lot and deep. Just think how better "the stats"

would be if Brady and his line controlled say, another 4 min's of ball possession

per game. It wouldn't be fair.

jus sayin'.

 

[Kontradiction]

That defense gave up 19 points in the SB. That should have been enough to win. You can't blame the D for:

1. A safety on the first offensive play
2. Brady and Welker failing to connect on the same play that was a
99 yard TD in Week 1
3. Tom throwing a deep pick to a crippled tight end
4. Multiple dropped passes

Eli had one TD in the game. They allowed Bradshaw to score to get the ball back. I hardly call that "getting shredded".

The offense certainly didn't play up to snuff, but the defense did get shredded. The drive breakdown was put up by another poster here (who it is escapes me at the moment) in another thread. Essentially, the Patriots defense had a major hand in stopping two Giants drives. And yes, Eli only threw one touchdown, but he also went 30-40 and his drives helped the Giants firmly control the T.O.P. battle, keeping the New England offense off the field.

 

[Nunchucks]

Any team that wants to beat the Patriots should throw the ball on every down. It really is that simple. The Patriots cannot stop the pass. Hit the TE in the middle, throw a fly down the sidelines, heck even throw the ball deep between the safeties.

Patriots cannot cover, the pass defense is still awful.

Why? It could be inexperience, it could be talent, it could be the scheme, it could be coaching. Maybe its all of those things. Whatever the reason, the results speak for themselves.

 

[Nunchucks]

That defense gave up 19 points in the SB. That should have been enough to win. You can't blame the D for:

1. A safety on the first offensive play
2. Brady and Welker failing to connect on the same play that was a
99 yard TD in Week 1
3. Tom throwing a deep pick to a crippled tight end
4. Multiple dropped passes

Eli had one TD in the game. They allowed Bradshaw to score to get the ball back. I hardly call that "getting shredded".

You can blame the defense for not getting the ball to the offense enough. The time of possession in that game was atrocious.

 

[Hudson Pats Fan]

Well my first point would be, Why are they playing out of position? If that's not coaching, nothing is. And the other point as to why coaching is a problem is that the secondary hasn't improved for at least a couple of years, if anything, it's regressed. The ultimate responsibility for that is the coaches and particularly BB. Having said that, I'm actually hopeful moving forwards. I really like McCourty at safety and think he could be a league leading safety providing the Pats commit to him at the position. I like Dennard and think he can be league average at worst, if they re-sign Talib, then we could be looking at an effective tandem and I still hope that Dowling can get an extended run of fitness because I think his upside is really good. That leaves us only in desperate need of another safety as I'm yet to be convinced that Tavon Wilson is the guy.

Right now I'd like to see the following in the defensive backfield:

FS: McCourty
SS: Chung (if he can get over the injury bug that'd be nice)
CB: Dennard
CB: Talib
Nickle: Arrington

Note: Gregory to the bench since he needs to learn how to tackle again IMO and McCourty is better at that spot than he is.

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

Any team that wants to beat the Patriots should throw the ball on every down. It really is that simple. The Patriots cannot stop the pass. Hit the TE in the middle, throw a fly down the sidelines, heck even throw the ball deep between the safeties.

Patriots cannot cover, the pass defense is still awful.

Why? It could be inexperience, it could be talent, it could be the scheme, it could be coaching. Maybe its all of those things. Whatever the reason, the results speak for themselves.

I agree,I also have no idea of why the opposing team doesn't sit their RB the whole game or use them as blockers.

The Pats have little pass rush,the linebackers can't cover the slot and the cornerbacks and safeties can't cover or tackle consistently.

If I were HC and facing NE,my QB is going to have a sore arm on Monday morning because my game plan is throwing 40-60 times that game,it almost guarantees even a decent offense 30 points minimum,you waste a down ANYTIME you decide to run the ball against the Patriots.

I would throw all day long to my TE going down the middle and to my #2 receiver all day as well because the Pats will focus on shutting down the #1 receiver with Talib and a safety leaving the #2 WR one on one with a very green,very raw rookie Dennard or the scrub Arrington.

Sadly,this is realistic when playing up against this defense

 

[RayClay]

I agree,I also have no idea of why the opposing team doesn't sit their RB the whole game or use them as blockers.

The Pats have little pass rush,the linebackers can't cover the slot and the cornerbacks and safeties can't cover or tackle consistently.

If I were HC and facing NE,my QB is going to have a sore arm on Monday morning because my game plan is throwing 40-60 times that game,it almost guarantees even a decent offense 30 points minimum,you waste a down ANYTIME you decide to run the ball against the Patriots.

I would throw all day long to my TE going down the middle and to my #2 receiver all day as well because the Pats will focus on shutting down the #1 receiver with Talib and a safety leaving the other WR with a very green,very raw rookie Dennard or the scrub Arrington.

Sadly,this is realistic when playing up against this defense

Would have been nice if Buffalo sat down Jackson and Spiller. Hopefully, teams in the future will take your advice, it will help our pass rush immensely.

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

Would have been nice if Buffalo sat down Jackson and Spiller. Hopefully, teams in the future will take your advice, it will help our pass rush immensely.

It would not have mattered if Spiller and Jackson didn't play a down.....the receivers simply would have tossed 150 yards a piece in the air.

I have no idea of why you think Stevie Johnson and co. would have been stopped if Buffalo abandoned the run,even without using great RBs

Your more naive than I think

Use Spiller and Jackson in to block an already anemic pass rush and you can't stop Fitz from having even longer to pass to Chandler down the middle or the WRs

Are you that crazy to believe the secondary would control the game?,a secondary that is so bad simply can't slow down the pass even if they know its coming.

Sorry,but I disagree...I don't care if you have OJ Simpson and Walter Payton behind you,against the 2012 Pats its throw,throw,throw until the clock says Zero,zero,zero

This secondary cant stop an offense that relies mainly on the pass .....it's been proven time and time again,I have no idea what games you watch.

Fortunately,Brady puts up lots of points often,thus the team is 6-3 because of that.

 

[RayClay]

It would not have mattered if Spiller and Jackson didn't play a down.....the receivers simply would have tossed 150 yards a piece in the air.

I have no idea of why you think Stevie Johnson and co. would have been stopped if Buffalo abandoned the run,even without using great RBs

Your more naive than I think

Use Spiller and Jackson in to block an already anemic pass rush and you can't stop Fitz from having even longer to pass to Chandler down the middle or the WRs

Are you that crazy to believe the secondary would control the game?,a secondary that is so bad simply can't slow down the pass even if they know its coming.

Sorry,but I disagree...I don't care if you have OJ Simpson and Walter Payton behind you,against the 2012 Pats its throw,throw,throw until the clock says Zero,zero,zero

This secondary cant stop an offense that relies mainly on the pass .....it's been proven time and time again,I have no idea what games you watch.

Fortunately,Brady puts up lots of points often,thus the team is 6-3 because of that.

Really. Did you watch the game? Spiller averaged 7.8 yards a carry and that understated the impact he had on us. He was a danger to score any time he had the ball and it was obvious how he slowed down Jones as he tried to maintain contain. Jackson was ripping us right up the middle and Fitzpatrick cut loose when we didn't account for him.

I'm glad you took the time to offer a constructive way for us to improve, instead of just a knee jerk reaction to pile on the obvious.

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

Really. Did you watch the game? Spiller averaged 7.8 yards a carry and that understated the impact he had on us. He was a danger to score any time he had the ball and it was obvious how he slowed down Jones as he tried to maintain contain. Jackson was ripping us right up the middle and Fitzpatrick cut loose when we didn't account for him.

I'm glad you took the time to offer a constructive way for us to improve, instead of just a knee jerk reaction to pile on the obvious.

If its obvious to you then there is no argument here.

Look....the team is what it is

This isn't a fairy tale movie or some fantasy game,this is reality,the defense is a sieve and even if Talib helps out it will remain a sieve until Belichick decides to put some proven SOLID veteran FA talent back there to help out with the young guys and maybe get lucky for once and pick up a stud DB in next years draft,Gregory is a scrub and is not a vet the team needs to turn it around,it needs a playmaker at DB to start and are going to have to open the pocketbook to do so


The improvement of this secondary begins with the offseason,you,I and all fans simply have to accept the crud we have on defense and hope that the offense can score tons of points a game to advance deep into the playoffs.

 

[RayClay]

If its obvious to you then there is no argument here.

Look....the team is what it is

This isn't a fairy tale movie or some fantasy game,this is reality,the defense is a sieve and even if Talib helps out it will remain a sieve until Belichick decides to put some proven SOLID veteran FA talent back there to help out with the young guys and maybe get lucky for once and pick up a stud DB in next years draft,Gregory is a scrub and is not a vet the team needs to turn it around,it needs a playmaker at DB to start and are going to have to open the pocketbook to do so


The improvement of this secondary begins with the offseason,you,I and all fans simply have to accept the crud we have on defense and hope that the offense can score tons of points a game to advance deep into the playoffs.

So you've given up on the season. Well good luck to you. This is the constructive thread, not the "we're doomed" thread. There are lots of those.

 

[jnug]

I really am finding it hard to believe that folks think an offense can just sit back and throw 100% of the time and get away with it even against the anemic Pats pass defense.

In the first place, if as a defense you are 100% confident that the opponent will not run, you take you run stoppers off the field and go to a defense totally committed to stopping pass completions.

THE ugliest problem, the most eye catching and unappealing aspect of this year's D is the secondary followed by maybe a tie between the ineptness of the LB's as a group in pass coverage and the d-line's inability to mount a consistently heavy pass rush. But that is all stuff that is easy to see.

Sitting just underneath all of that is a D that DOES keep its big run stoppers on the field a very high % of the time and still can only manage 9th in the league against the rush. 9th suggests they are not good enough at run stopping to discourage teams from running on them. Its primary run stopping effort is stopping the run at the point of attack. However whenever the back can bounce it out and escape they usually can find a pretty soft edge .They have enough run stoppers out there to stop the mean average NFL team from running them ragged but take those guys off the field and you will not only have UGLY defense but lost games piling up all over the place because TB and the offense will spend even more time on the bench stewing than it does now. It is still true even in the pass happy NFL that if you let the opponent shred you on the ground you are done....toast...not even talking about last minute losses but big fat ugly losses, games that are over the wrong way by the end of the 3rd quarter.

The premise for this defense is keeping teams from shredding them on the ground because that is actually true death in the NFL. It banks on the fact that even with all the rules changes giving us this pass happy league there are likely not more than five or six QB's and maybe four total offenses good enough to turn that strategy on its ear.

As many have posted here, I look forward especially to seeing what the 49er's do with this defense if the 49ers have their offense still intact by that game. I very much suspect that once the 9ers' get going the Pats will be forced to drop a safety down in the box to stop that running attack. For one that means Talib probably has to be able to take somebody all over the field cause we sure do not have a DB that can take somebody....anybody all over the field now.

Shaub and Houston present a slightly different version of the same problem. They don't have as good a running attack but a better QB. Shaub throws a nice ball...works his progressions pretty well and has a pretty good release.

I see the Houston game coming down to the usual last few minutes of the game and the usual story line of "can the Pats offense stay up by more than one score so that a defensive lapse on the last drive of the game does not amount to a loss. That is the best I see from the Houston game.

9er's could very easily be s different story as they have the better running attack and a stifling defense that may be able to wreck havoc on the Pats especially if Gronk is not Gronk and if Hernandez is not here. Thankfully both games are at home in Foxboro.

 

[Nunchucks]

Really. Did you watch the game? Spiller averaged 7.8 yards a carry and that understated the impact he had on us. He was a danger to score any time he had the ball and it was obvious how he slowed down Jones as he tried to maintain contain. Jackson was ripping us right up the middle and Fitzpatrick cut loose when we didn't account for him.

I'm glad you took the time to offer a constructive way for us to improve, instead of just a knee jerk reaction to pile on the obvious.

Better 7.9 yards a carry than what would happen if they threw the ball.

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

So you've given up on the season. Well good luck to you. This is the constructive thread, not the "we're doomed" thread. There are lots of those.

I haven't given up on anything

As long as Brady has no bad games in the playoffs and puts up 30 points or more,the Pats will always have a good chance to win any game.

Put the clamps on Brady and force him to have a bad day and the party is over,this defense is not suited to win games on their own when Brady is off.

This isn't even arguable

 

[Ring 6]

"I don't see how coaching has much to do with it" How do you explain every corner back not watching the ball while it's in the air?
.

I would begin explaining it by pointing out it is not an accurate statement.

 

[Ring 6]

I haven't given up on anything

As long as Brady has no bad games in the playoffs and puts up 30 points or more,the Pats will always have a good chance to win any game.

Put the clamps on Brady and force him to have a bad day and the party is over,this defense is not suited to win games on their own when Brady is off.

This isn't even arguable

Well, since no other team is suited to win when you take away their best pieces, I guess this isn't such a relevant worry.

 

[Ring 6]

It would not have mattered if Spiller and Jackson didn't play a down.....the receivers simply would have tossed 150 yards a piece in the air.

I have no idea of why you think Stevie Johnson and co. would have been stopped if Buffalo abandoned the run,even without using great RBs

Your more naive than I think

Use Spiller and Jackson in to block an already anemic pass rush and you can't stop Fitz from having even longer to pass to Chandler down the middle or the WRs

Are you that crazy to believe the secondary would control the game?,a secondary that is so bad simply can't slow down the pass even if they know its coming.

Sorry,but I disagree...I don't care if you have OJ Simpson and Walter Payton behind you,against the 2012 Pats its throw,throw,throw until the clock says Zero,zero,zero

This secondary cant stop an offense that relies mainly on the pass .....it's been proven time and time again,I have no idea what games you watch.

Fortunately,Brady puts up lots of points often,thus the team is 6-3 because of that.

I vote for you to be hired as the coach of our biggest competition.