Pass rushing against the Bills lacked disguise

[SeymourTrophies]

Cassanova,

if it understand you, we should be blitzing more. Please describe the results of a B Spikes blitz that tackled nothing but air, and turned a routine two yard gain, into a 25 yard romp by CJ around left end.

Why or why Mr.Cass, why didn't that work? In all your posts about new schemes, you never say anything about the results of that play you prescribe.

Not a thing would work when your ends are getting blown off of their edges consistently and CJ Spiller is the guy with the ball. Spiller is electric, and we learned that in 2010 in Foxboro. Good thing he's in Buffalo where his incredible burst can only burn us in the regular season.

 

[Patjew]

I cannot understand why they don't blitz more. When the other team is either scoring or tuning the ball over on every possession, how can alot of blitzing hurt anything???

 

[BradyFTW!]

I cannot understand why they don't blitz more. When the other team is either scoring or tuning the ball over on every possession, how can alot of blitzing hurt anything???

I get why they don't blitz more against QBs who are known for excelling against blitzes. What bugs me is when they don't blitz QBs like Fitzpatrick, Russell Wilson, Kevin Kolb, etc., either. I often find myself thinking that if the opposing QB has time to complete a 7 step drop, the coverage will have already collapsed by then, so might as well sell out making sure that there isn't enough time for that. The only real reasoning that I can come up with is that blitzing would make the QBs reads even easier, which would take away INTs (the one thing that the pass defense does fairly well).

 

[JMarr]

Fantastic work.

Watching the game, it really seemed as though they were playing very vanilla, hoping to just keep the lead and make them drive down the field, and not get a quick score on a big play.

It did seem that way. Give the Bills credit. Their coaches get paid too and they have a lot of offensive talent on that team.

People need to realize that every game plan is different and specific to each week before they get so up in arms about schemes being too passive or vanilla. Also have to realize just how young and inexperience this D is, especially the secondary, so it's wise not to make things overly complex. Yet.

 

[captain stone]

Cassanova,

if it understand you, we should be blitzing more. Please describe the results of a B Spikes blitz that tackled nothing but air, and turned a routine two yard gain, into a 25 yard romp by CJ around left end.

Why or why Mr.Cass, why didn't that work? In all your posts about new schemes, you never say anything about the results of that play you prescribe.

So because Spikes doesn't get to the ball in time, the 10 other guys are excused, and we should never
attempt an out-of-ordinary rush again?

Props to FinnishFan for providing the numbers to support our beliefs that this "defense"(snicker)
is bland, unimaginitive, predictable & unproductive.

 

[ALP]

i also noticed this during the game, our defense is extremely simple....

no stunts, no deception, no misdirection

i dont get it, why not? that is the million dollar question


all the great defenses of the NFL today are that way because of two reasons 1. talent 2. misdirection, and we have little of #1 in the secondary, and none of #2 as a whole.....so why?

 

[denverpatsfan]

Great points by all. Great breakdown.

I will say that this much maligned D caused 4 turnovers. 1 of which knocked the starting RB out of the game and should have sealed the win. They also caused 2 fumbles in the SB which would have helped win that game too. I think this is the BB plan barring Ty Law walking thru that door.

 

[Finnishfan]

Great points by all. Great breakdown.

I will say that this much maligned D caused 4 turnovers. 1 of which knocked the starting RB out of the game and should have sealed the win. They also caused 2 fumbles in the SB which would have helped win that game too. I think this is the BB plan barring Ty Law walking thru that door.

Thanks for the praise.

While the turnovers are great, they are just about the only thing keeping us alive defensively. And there is one VERY important thing you need to notice about them: most of our turnovers in 2012 have been from fumbles.

Fumbles are not scheme-related turnovers, they are caused by good fundamentals. Right now, our schemes do not serve us at all.

 

[jnug]

The standard rule of thumb in the NFL is that you blitz the better QB's in the game because if you leave them time they will tear you up. You don't generally blitz the lesser QB's in the league because they will eventually err without being forced.

Flacco for example to me has made very little progress. He is with little to show for it, the same QB he was when he came into the league. Flacco made errors unforced by a d-line rush in the Pats game, just like he has from the very first game I saw him play. We just did not take advantage of them but he made them all over the place.

It is easy to say "blitz more" but if your opponent is already making enough errors for you to generate turnovers, why leave yourself exposed to other aspects of the opponent's offensive playbook?

Even stunts while maybe looking harmless can expose you in ways that BB may simply not be willing to accept. In today's NFL, it is pick your poison. You are not going to stop everything. Maybe BB will be more confident as the year comes to a close but it is just to easy for us to notice what appears not to be working without acknowledging that the alternatives could be much worse.

As I have said before the one place where I think BB is open for criticism is in his drafting and in his personnel selections for defense. He has always liked a particular type of defender and it used to work really good for him. Still does for the most part. He just needs to modify his approach a bit in my view so that he ends up with a bit more physical skill out there on the field at any one time......maybe if we had one more guy that you describe that way at every level of the D and maybe two in the secondary....this defense would be fine. Maybe Talib is one of the guys in the secondary.

 

[Metaphors]

Couple of points that don't necessarily all fit in this thread but don't want to start a new one:

- I don't believe you are going to see the Pats defense show all their cards in a regular season game unless the division is in doubt. Would any of you be satisfied if the Pats rolled into the playoffs but got bounced by a QB (Schaub, Flacco, Goober, Roethlisberger, Luck) who had a bunch of tape on their blitz schemes? We've gotten glimpses of each of the LBs blitzing, usually to some degree of success. You can be sure that Belichick has filed that away for future use when needed. I'm more curious to see if we see the DBs get an occasional run at the QB as a prep for the playoffs. Belichick preaches "one game at a time" but no coach has a better feel for the "long view" than him (sometimes to a fault).

- People just have to realize that the Bills offense is a bad matchup for the Pats. They have a variety of weapons and they use them all. Their downfall is that they crank out more turnovers than my mom at Thanksgiving. Fitzgerald has the skills to do well until his sphincter tightens...and it inevitably does. I'm not going climb out on a ledge just because the Bills offense seems to have a comfort zone against the Pats defense.

- It also is getting a little old hearing about the Pats secondary issues like the same DBs have been on the field all year. If I had told you that Dennard would be the #1 CB, McCourty would be a safety, Wilson would be the lead safety, Ebner would be a dime back and Cole would be on the field outside of the kicking game...you would ask me when the preseason was over. But all of those situations have occurred in meaningful games that were still in doubt. Is it really that surprising the secondary is a weak spot? Lets see if the Pats can field the same depth chart for more than 2 weeks in a row before final judgements are pronounced.

- Circling back around to the OP, a disguised scheme requires experienced players to pull off. The Pats have a number of rookies and short-timers playing key roles week-to-week. Give Jones and Hightower a little more time to develop. You can see both getting more responsibility over time (not necessarily with glowing results). Lets see if the secondary can settle into a top 4 of Dennard/Talib/McCourty/Gregory with Chung/Wilson/Arrington/Cole filling niche roles as matchups dictate. If the depth chart can settle down for a while (in games and in practice) I think the chances of seeing some more exotic looks go way up.

 

[The_Riddler]

That's what makes the Steelers defense so good, it's not the corners, no, their corners are quite ordinary to be honest and always have been. Every OLB they draft becomes a Pro Bowler because of **** Lebeau and yes, "The Scheme".

I believe **** Lebeau could take our current defense and make it top 10 defense in this league with the great young talent we have.

BB likes to promote these young, inexperienced, paper-hole punchers from the office, drop a head set on them, instill in them some of his football philosophies and Wam!, we have an Assistant/Future Coodinator.

It's not working, look at Wade Phillips in Houston, takes one of the worst defenses in football and now look. It's time for BB to swallow his pride and get a real, proven, defensive coordinator in here. We have too much young talent on defense to not have it utilized correctly in a better scheme.

 

[Cassanova792]

That's what makes the Steelers defense so good, it's not the corners, no, their corners are quite ordinary to be honest and always have been. Every OLB they draft becomes a Pro Bowler because of **** Lebeau and yes, "The Scheme".

I believe **** Lebeau could take our current defense and make it top 10 defense in this league with the great young talent we have.

BB likes to promote these young, inexperienced, paper-hole punchers from the office, drop a head set on them, instill in them some of his football philosophies and Wam!, we have an Assistant/Future Coodinator.

It's not working, look at Wade Phillips in Houston, takes one of the worst defenses in football and now look. It's time for BB to swallow his pride and get a real, proven, defensive coordinator in here. We have too much young talent on defense to not have it utilized correctly in a better scheme.

I have stated this too in regards to Lebeau and the Steelers uncanny consistency with their defense.

 

[jnug]

BB drafts how he likes to play and develop defenses. I don't think you will see a change in the kind of DC BB brings in here until he stops being so stubborn about how he drafts defensive talent. He does not have to make a 180* turn but he does have to change some.

Talib may signal that BB finally is capitulating on his stance with regard to defensive players, especially DB's. I really hope so.

 

[Marqui]

I think even Rex Ryan could take this group of players and make it a top 10 defense.

 

[RoughingthePasser]

awesome breakdown- i was actually glad to see this thread title posted

we are too predictable lining up-especially for the Buffalo game-Fitzpatrick and his line were a step ahead and that wont get us to the big game....

we have the potential...we're young and need better/more coaching on D.

maybe a little more attention from BB

 

[RoughingthePasser]

I love the Steelers defense...always moving....incredible crew that came to mind after reading the OP's mention of predictability/stances etc......
we have the potential....better COACHING and PREPARATION

 

[TheComeback]

They don't run disguise defenses because they don't trust the players to execute them. It's that simple.

The Patriots ran disguises all the time during the Super Bowl years. They are in the scheme. It amazes me how much criticism coaches get from armchair scouts who never see them in practice and never sit on meetings.

If you're going to attack anything, attack Belichick and the front office for consistently failing to find good players in the secondary.

 

[Sciz]

I think even Rex Ryan could take this group of players and make it a top 10 defense.

Yeah, if you care about yards. Rex's defenses are quite a bit better at preventing teams from moving the ball, but they're no better than Belichick's defenses at preventing points.

(From week 1, 2009 to now)
Yards
Patriots: 368.5 yards per game
Jets: 295.3 yards per game

Points
Patriots: 20.0 points per game
Jets: 19.8 points per game

So Rex is allowing 70 fewer yards per game, but just .2 points per game fewer. Rex isn't a better defensive coach than Belichick. He's a coach with a different defensive philosophy that looks better to the naive people that look at yards.

Can we stop with "Rex would do better" now?

 

[The_Riddler]

They don't run disguise defenses because they don't trust the players to execute them. It's that simple.

The Patriots ran disguises all the time during the Super Bowl years. They are in the scheme. It amazes me how much criticism coaches get from armchair scouts who never see them in practice and never sit on meetings.

If you're going to attack anything, attack Belichick and the front office for consistently failing to find good players in the secondary.

You can't be serious ! Have you even looked at the Houston Texans starting defense ? Kareem Jackson was "pedestrian" at best before Wade Phillips arrived. Glover Quin and Daniel Manning are the starting safeties, um ya, I'll say it for you, WHO ? Jonathan Joseph is the only legit player in that Back Four, yet Wade Phillips has schemed that secondary into a tough, physical, ball hawking group.

Our defensive coaches are in over their heads, there's no other way to put it.

 

[Marqui]

Yeah, if you care about yards. Rex's defenses are quite a bit better at preventing teams from moving the ball, but they're no better than Belichick's defenses at preventing points.

(From week 1, 2009 to now)
Yards
Patriots: 368.5 yards per game
Jets: 295.3 yards per game

Points
Patriots: 20.0 points per game
Jets: 19.8 points per game

So Rex is allowing 70 fewer yards per game, but just .2 points per game fewer. Rex isn't a better defensive coach than Belichick. He's a coach with a different defensive philosophy that looks better to the naive people that look at yards.

Can we stop with "Rex would do better" now?

Points per game is kind of a fraudulent way to evaluate defense. It doesn't factor in how the team's offense/specials teams contributed to keeping points off the board. How about comparing 3rd down defense in that same time-frame?