Is it me or does the Pats defense play up (or down) to the level of the opponent?

[dannydyn]

Not sure, but it appears that our defense plays MUCH better against tougher opponents. It's as if they come onto the field with a bit of arrogance when playing inferior teams - and it comes to bite them in the ***.

Jets, Cards, Bills (yesterday's game), etc..... all appeared to have played with too much leniency.... as if with the attitude of "ah...fck it, we're playing a crappy team, no need to put 100%". Then it comes to bite them in the ***, just for them to get a wake up call late in the 4th qtr in a desperate attempt to save the game. Sometimes it works (Bills yesterday, Jets), other times it doesn't (Cards, Seahawks).

On the other hand, when they played the Broncos and Ravens, they put up a lights out performance. They showed more respect and accountability when playing better teams (Ravens game was lost due to the secondary indeed shooting itself in the foot, but also due to some shady replacement officiating, which otherwise should have been our win).

The Denver game goes to show that our defense IS capable of putting up good performance. But their attitude is what ultimate decides the outcome.

Thoughts?

 

[FirstAndGoal]

That's just a case of wishful thinking.

 

[ausbacker]

There was nothing lights out about the D's performances against the Ravens or the Broncos. The D is average at best.

 

[dannydyn]

Broncos and Ravens are great teams. A win or even a close loss is considered a good performance. OK, maybe not 'lights out', but pretty good nonetheless.

Put another way, had the Pats D played against the Hawks, Cards, and Bills yesterday, like they played against the Broncos, those games would not have been that close (or lost altogether for that matter).

 

[ausbacker]

Broncos and Ravens are great teams. A win or even a close loss is considered a good performance. OK, maybe not 'lights out', but pretty good nonetheless.

Put another way, had the Pats D played against the Hawks, Cards, and Bills yesterday, like they played against the Broncos, those games would not have been that close (or lost altogether for that matter).

I don't agree with that dannydyn. I don't agree with that at all. The Patriots average performance on D is generally mediocre. They are the beneficiaries of an all time Offense.

 

[Nehalem]

Against the cards they allowed 20 points... 7 from when the Cardinals were gifted the ball inside the 5 due to a blocked punt.

 

[Brady_to_Moss]

But their attitude is what ultimate decides the outcome.

Thoughts?

Attitude is always what ultimately decides the outcome, Danielson.

 

[RodThePat]

The defense played poorly against the Ravens. Against Denver they were pretty stout and made some plays when they had to, but aside from that game I don't remember them shutting any decent offense out. But you have a point in the sense that, looking at how bad they've played against pretty terrible offenses, one would think a team that's above-average on that side of the ball would absolutely kill us, and that hasn't necessarily been the case most of the time.

 

[upstater1]

I agree with danny.

They were loafing around out there yesterday. You could freakin' see it. Players jogging. They were flat against Arizona and flat against the Jets as well, hard as that is to believe.

This and the 2009 team are the only 2 BB teams I've seen half-arsing it.

The defense was indeed stout and fired up against the Ravens. Five of those Ravens drives were propelled by referee calls. The refs kept extending the Ravens' drives and keeping the Pats D on the field.

I don't know why players are loafing out there, but it is disturbing.

 

[Gumby]

Not sure, but it appears that our defense plays MUCH better against tougher opponents. It's as if they come onto the field with a bit of arrogance when playing inferior teams - and it comes to bite them in the ***.

Jets, Cards, Bills (yesterday's game), etc..... all appeared to have played with too much leniency.... as if with the attitude of "ah...fck it, we're playing a crappy team, no need to put 100%". Then it comes to bite them in the ***, just for them to get a wake up call late in the 4th qtr in a desperate attempt to save the game. Sometimes it works (Bills yesterday, Jets), other times it doesn't (Cards, Seahawks).

On the other hand, when they played the Broncos and Ravens, they put up a lights out performance. They showed more respect and accountability when playing better teams (Ravens game was lost due to the secondary indeed shooting itself in the foot, but also due to some shady replacement officiating, which otherwise should have been our win).

The Denver game goes to show that our defense IS capable of putting up good performance. But their attitude is what ultimate decides the outcome.

Thoughts?

YES.......
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It is just YOU.

Bal and Den the Pats gave up 503 and 394 total yards respectively. vs pass they gave up 9.8 and 7.4 yard per pass with 71% and 70% pass completion rates respectively. Not sure how that is lights out. Bal was in fact the 2nd WORST YPP for any game this season (only Sea at 10.5 was worse).

The best pass defense they have had (stats wise - for what that is worth) were against the Cards, Titans, and StL (5.2, 6.1, and 6.8 YPP respectively). Which you can argue about whether AZ started out year as a good team and went downhill or that Tenn looks a lot better now than they did in game 1; but all 3 are below .500 after 8 to 10 games.

So they played well against the statistical bums and play poor vs good teams. Sorry, selective memory is playing tricks on you.

1. Titans - 284yds (264/20) 29-43 (67%) 6.1ypp
2. Az - 242 (140/102) 15-27 (55%) 5.2 ypp
3. Bal - 503 (382/121) 28-39 (71%) 9.8ypp
4. Buff1-438 (340-98) 22-39 (56%) 8.7 ypp
5. Den - 394 (324/70) 31-44 (70%) 7.4ypp
6. Sea- 368 (283/85) 16-27 (59%) 10.5ypp
7. Jests1- 403 (297/106) 28-41 (68%) 7.2ypp
8. StL - 326 (219/107) 23-32 (72%) 6.8ypp
10. Buff2- 481 (319/162) 27-40 (68%) 8.0 ypp

And what is worse; is that the only guys they held below 60% completion rates are the games where they played against the #2 QB (AZ) or a Rookie QB (where i think they took out one of his prime wrs due to injury during course of game). Note that if they hadn't taken out the QB vs Titans their (titans) numbers would be better too.

Probably the worst indictment is this:
7. Jests1- 403 (297/106) 28-41 (68%) 7.2ypp
If you can make Sanchize-bow look that good; YOU HAVE TO BE BAD.

 

[Raymond]

Clearly, the Pats D relaxed too much when they were up 31-17 after that score to start the third qtr. They have to learn to stay focused. I hope Talib can help in this clear area of weakness in games later in the season against any opponent.

But Fitzpatrick has thrown 17 picks to the Pats in his last 7 games. Saying the Pats were lucky to cement the win with another pick is ignoring what they've done to him for three and a half years.

 

[PATSYLICIOUS]

There was nothing lights out about the D's performances against the Ravens or the Broncos. The D is average at best.

I was gonna say.... those games were lights out performances? The fact that standards are that low around here that those games get labeled 'lights out' says alot about this defense

 

[Sicilian]

I mentioned this in the Luck thread too. It's not so much that they play great against the good teams, but that the numbers seem to be pretty even, regardless of whether they're playing a good passing offense or a bad one. Good ones get between 250-350 passing yards per game (for the most part), and bad ones get between 250-350 passing yards per game. There doesn't seem to be a proportional link between the quality of the offense and the STATS that the Pats D gives up. Take that for whatever it's worth.

 

[PATSYLICIOUS]

Besides, our best performances of the season came against Tennessee, St. Louis, and maybe AZ. 3 poor offenses.

Very confusing this idea of us stepping up to any good offense. We haven't even played elite offenses like NO, GB, this year or last I shudder to think what they would do to this defense.

 

[cstjohn17]

The D is average at best.

I would kill for average

 

[upstater1]

You guys have to at least talk about the first half of games. The Patriots D shut down the Ravens and the Broncos early and allowed the offense to jump them. They let down against the Broncos after building a commanding lead.

Don't just look at yards. Look at what they did for much of the game. As for the Ravens, I remain convinced that that was a total referee debacle, starting from the Ravens in their own end zone getting a totally bogus call to extend the drive on a third down.

 

[FirstAndGoal]

It's about match ups and whether someone can take advantage of them.

The Patriots offense is flexible enough to create all kinds of match up problems and if someone wants to stop something, the Pats can counter...they have the weapons.

On defense, it's a matter of weapons on the other team. If they have a lousy passing game and can't take advantage of the Pats secondary, they might only pass for 300 vs 400 yards.

Yesterday's run defense is the worst I've seen it but it's not a pattern so I say ... good job Bills. The middle of the field was wide open though and Fitz and his TE could do damage. Some other teams might not have that advantage. Maybe we play a different type of defense and the other team can't get it together.

I wouldn't expect a different game with the Colts...lots of passing yards, 35-31 type game where you're glad there aren't 61 minutes in a game.


In any case, the pass defense sucks and unless this new guy has a positive effect on the passing defense, I can't see a repeat of last year.

I'm also equally concerned about the sputtering of our offense in the 4th quarter.

 

[jnug]

I can't really find a place to commend this defense with the exception I guess of take aways where they actually could have more than they have. But they rank 29th in the league against the pass and 9th against the run, deep enough into the season for those rankings to be at least something worth considering. You would think that a team ranked 29th against the pass would be encouraging so much passing that their run yards against would be low enough to get them something like a top 5 ranking there. But being ranked 9th against the run suggests that teams are enjoying some success running the ball as well and in fact that is exactly how these games look when you watch them. Their success stopping the run is only marginal while you cannot call what they do against the pass any sort of success.

Talib should help against the pass especially but I don't think they are doing all that good a job against the run either when you consider that it is a defense with a bias toward stopping the run first.

Looking for teams this far into the season with similar records of relative defensive "accomplishment" we have the lowly Redskins at 30th against the pass and 8th against the run, compiling a 2 and 6 record along the way. The Dolphins are at 28th and 6th, compiling a 4 and 5 record along the way. Sort of tells you how dependent the Pats are on their outstanding offense and at least being able to generate some turnovers on defense.

By the way, while it has become a passing league, just as it has been in the past, if you cannot stop the run at all, you get crushed in this league. Hence, more support for the idea that BB is in something of a box as it stands, forced to bias his defense toward run stopping even if it is even more vulnerable to the pass for it. He simply cannot allow teams to run all over him. Clearly he refuses to allow teams to run enough and control so much clock that his true strength, his offense and his terrific QB are left sitting on the sidelines stewing.

As I have mentioned in other threads I agree with what BB is doing here. Regardless of how much of a passing league this has become, the number of QB's in it that can take full advantage of that are few and far between. On balance, encouraging passing even when his pass defense is weak forces more mistakes out of the opponent's offense, making the yards against more palatable since they don't necessarily result in points against and as mentioned earlier does not allow teams to run wild and control clock as they would if they were running like crazy on the Pats.

Its not the coaching folks its the talent. As much as we can thank our lucky stars for our QB, ya' better light a few candles for the defensive coaching as well. I have a few complaints about the defenses called in particular game situations but I cannot say that they are categorically wrong given the defensive talent level.

Now as for JM and his play calling.....please Bill tell this guy that enough is enough already. This offense thrives off the no huddle but the no huddle is not trickery...it forces execution under extreme circumstances. JM needs to cut out the trickery bull. It does not help anything and only serves to waste drives and opportunities.

 

[dannydyn]

You guys have to at least talk about the first half of games. The Patriots D shut down the Ravens and the Broncos early and allowed the offense to jump them. They let down against the Broncos after building a commanding lead.

Don't just look at yards. Look at what they did for much of the game. As for the Ravens, I remain convinced that that was a total referee debacle, starting from the Ravens in their own end zone getting a totally bogus call to extend the drive on a third down.

This^^^^^^^^^

 

[nekromantique]

Against the cards they allowed 20 points... 7 from when the Cardinals were gifted the ball inside the 5 due to a blocked punt.

they also allowed only a field goal after an interception by the cards placed them in pats territory already.

the defense played very well against the cardinals,