PatsFans.com Menu
PatsFans.com - The Hub For New England Patriots Fans

Bedard: Forget the Bills game...The Season Starts Now


Status
Not open for further replies.
Last year's defensive talent sucked yet, with coaching, it was able to come in at #15 in scoring and held playoff opponents to 10,20 and 21 points.

This year's defensive talent is better than last year's defensive talent and, before today, was #12 in scoring.

People here, both homer and Chicken Little, struggle with separating terrible play from terrible results.

You are obviously ignoring the fact we were second to last in every other statistical category except defensive rushing yards per game and as you noted scoring. Maybe this has to do with the fact we have a very talented front 7, which perhaps helps save a few points off the board. Also having the #1 offense probably helps your defense a little doesnt it?

So by holding Tim Tebow and the Broncos offense to 10 points is a suprise to you? He can do everything BUT pass as a QB. Hardly an indicator of talent performance in our secondary.

Holding the Ravens and Giants to 20 and 21 points is moderately successful considering it's only a .4-1.4 difference on their points per game season average like you stated. :/
 
You are obviously ignoring the fact we were second to last in every other statistical category except defensive rushing yards per game and as you noted scoring. Maybe this has to do with the fact we have a very talented front 7, which perhaps helps save a few points off the board. Also having the #1 offense probably helps your defense a little doesnt it?

I'm not ignoring anything. You, however, are overrating the front seven. This team's linebackers are poor in coverage, and the DL/OLB group of pass rushers is very inconsistent. What the front seven usually does well is defend against the run. Today, they didn't even get that done.

So by holding Tim Tebow and the Broncos offense to 10 points is a suprise to you? He can do everything BUT pass as a QB. Hardly an indicator of talent performance in our secondary.

You act as if the Broncos somehow made it to the second round of the playoffs last year without scoring a single point all season. Denver put up 23 against the Patriots in their first meeting last year, put up 29 against the Steelers in overtime, put up 35 against the Vikings and put up 38 against the Raiders. It was an up and down team, offensively, with Tebow at the helm, but it was also a team that went 8-3 against non-Patriots teams.

Holding the Ravens and Giants to 20 and 21 points is moderately successful considering it's only a .4-1.4 difference on their points per game season average like you stated. :/

Yes, having that lousy defense holding opponents to 10, 20 and 21 points in the playoffs is a good thing. That's kind of the point. Despite having crap for talent (Sergio Brown, etc....), that team found a way to be middle of the pack in points scored against and found a way to limit opponents in the playoffs. That's excellent coaching.

Here's the reality check:

  • Chung has never been good against the pass, is undersized for a big hitter, and gets hurt a lot
  • Gregory isn't starting talent, and this was discussed prior to the season
  • McCourty is a very inconsistent corner and is just learning the safety position
  • Dowling lost essentially all of his rookie season to injury, didn't look 100% coming back, and IR'd again
  • Dennard is a rookie CB who was at the bottom of the depth chart to start the season
  • Arrington is/was a UDFA CB4 who's been forced into a CB2 role. This has been discussed numerous times
  • Sterling Moore is a UDFA player who's a back of the roster, at best, player
  • Cole is a special teams player who's getting forced into action
  • Wilson is a rookie who is lousy in deep space and needs a whole lot of work if he's ever going to make it

As has been pointed out time and again, it's not as if DBs wash out in New England and then go on to greatness elsewhere.
 
Last edited:
You are obviously ignoring the fact we were second to last in every other statistical category except defensive rushing yards per game and as you noted scoring. Maybe this has to do with the fact we have a very talented front 7, which perhaps helps save a few points off the board. Also having the #1 offense probably helps your defense a little doesnt it?

So by holding Tim Tebow and the Broncos offense to 10 points is a suprise to you? He can do everything BUT pass as a QB. Hardly an indicator of talent performance in our secondary.

Holding the Ravens and Giants to 20 and 21 points is moderately successful considering it's only a .4-1.4 difference on their points per game season average like you stated. :/

In terms of rushing defense,you make it sound like they dominate everyone up front.....so far Spiller and Ray Rice have had their way with the front 7 and there are more big boys coming up soon like Gore and more notably the scary Foster/Tate combo

Those upcoming runners next month will show us just how good of a run stopping unit this team has going into the post season.
 
I'm not ignoring anything. You, however, are overrating the front seven. This team's linebackers are poor in coverage, and the DL/OLB group of pass rushers is very inconsistent. What the front seven usually does well is defend against the run. Today, they didn't even get that done.



You act as if the Broncos somehow made it to the second round of the playoffs last year without scoring a single point all season. Denver put up 23 against the Patriots in their first meeting last year, put up 29 against the Steelers in overtime, put up 35 against the Vikings and put up 38 against the Raiders. It was an up and down team, offensively, with Tebow at the helm, but it was also a team that went 8-3 against non-Patriots teams.



Yes, having that lousy defense holding opponents to 10, 20 and 21 points in the playoffs is a good thing. That's kind of the point. Despite having crap for talent (Sergio Brown, etc....), that team found a way to be middle of the pack in points scored against.

That's excellent coaching.


As for the linebackers you are absolutely right! They are poor in coverage (mainly Spikes) yet we still drop them into coverage, they are inconsistent on the 4 man rush, yet we hardly blitz. How can you NOT blame coaching and scheme?

As far as the broncos you are nitpicking scores, i can show you far more games where Tim Tebow was just horrendous yet lucky then games where he played average enough to win. He did have a good game against the Steelers though. Tim Tebow we all know is hardly an aerial threat that you are making him out to be he was just fortunate enough to be on a talented Broncos team.

We can go on all night about whether it is coaching or talent. It is probably both, honestly I could care less as long as its fixed. They brought in Talib to bring in some talent, great, but how bout we try something new from our coaches like blitzing instead of dropping our talented but slow LB's into coverage eh? It's pretty obvious we have a very vanilla easy to read defense, which does nothing to help our porous secondary if the QB has all day to read and throw.
 
Last edited:
As for the linebackers you are absolutely right! They are poor in coverage (mainly Spikes) yet we still drop them into coverage, they are inconsistent on the 4 man rush, yet we hardly blitz. How can you NOT blame coaching and scheme?

As far as the broncos you are nitpicking scores, i can show you far more games where Tim Tebow was just horrendous yet lucky then games where he played average enough to win. He did have a good game against the Steelers though. Tim Tebow we all know is hardly an aerial threat that you are making him out to be he was just fortunate enough to be on a talented Broncos team.

We can go on all night about whether it is coaching or talent. It is probably both, honestly I could care less as long as its fixed. They brought in Talib to bring in some talent, great, but how bout we try something new from our coaches like blitzing instead of dropping our talented but slow LB's into coverage eh? It's pretty obvious we have a very vanilla easy to read defense, which does nothing to help our porous secondary if the QB has all day to read and throw.

We still drop them into coverage? So what, you want us in quarters every game?

We have to drop LBs in coverage
 
We still drop them into coverage? So what, you want us in quarters every game?

We have to drop LBs in coverage

Obviously not, Mayo should be the only one dropping into coverage and Hightower occasionally. Spikes and Hightower for the most part should just strictly go after the QB and focus on stopping the run. Spikes has no business dropping into coverage, EVER, he is far too slow to cover and is a liability. Hightower, on the other hand can do both. He has the speed to cover but i think he can be very very good at going after the QB (just check his film when he was in college). The problem is our current scheme doesn't utilize to our LB'ers strengths.
 
Last edited:
In terms of rushing defense,you make it sound like they dominate everyone up front.....so far Spiller and Ray Rice have had their way with the front 7 and there are more big boys coming up soon like Gore and more notably the scary Foster/Tate combo

Those upcoming runners next month will show us just how good of a run stopping unit this team has going into the post season.

Cmon giving up 101 yards to Ray Rice and 150 yards or so to the Bills talented RB duo is nothing to be ashamed about especially if you are constantly dropping the LB'ers to help our much maligned secondary.
 
Last edited:
Obviously not, Mayo should be the only one dropping into coverage and Hightower occasionally. Spikes and Hightower for the most part should mostly go after the QB. Spikes is too slow to cover and Hightower is very good at going after the QB.

Uhuh.

And you know exactly which play the Bills would run? Let's say they line up with Spiller and/or Jackson wide. Pats go dime/nickel.

Then bring them both in the backfield and run.

What now?

Either way you lose if you react by pulling LB from coverage just to stop the pass. They'll run right over you
 
Our defense is one of the best and most opportunistic in takeaways in the league, same as last year. We have a very formidable front 7, yet somehow we are one of the worst defenses in the league. This tells me we have talent, scheme is the issue and a coach like Wade can absolutely turn this defense around, more so than Patricia.

This defense can force turnovers (spikes is a God dam monster), the young secondary plus Talib has me excited. I'm starting to wonder if otg is that crazy after all. Dennard can clearly make plays (push out), also missed a tackle or two...McCourty struggled a bit and mayo got killed a few times against the run. They made big plays though. Spikes is a beast and simply ran over the qb while wrapping up his shoulders...flag? Lol. Mayo call looked worse than it was, but reasonable. McCourty had a huge pick at the end.
 
Cmon giving up 101 yards to Ray Rice and 150 yards or so to the Bills talented RB duo is nothing to be ashamed about especially if you are constantly dropping the LB'ers to help our much maligned secondary.

Gotta stop guys like Ray Rice and Arian Foster if you are going to advance in the playoffs......this is my point because the Pats may face both when they get there.
 
Gotta stop guys like Ray Rice and Arian Foster if you are going to advance in the playoffs......this is my point because the Pats may face both when they get there.

True but i am more worried about <insert ANY Quarterback's name here> than Ray Rice or Arian Foster. Our secondary cant stop no body.
 
Kareem Jackson was pretty terrible until this year...guys can be coached up


Posted from Patsfans.com App for Android

I'm pretty sure he's not the only one playing in the secondary. I get your point that guys can be coached up, but that secondary is pretty talented. Wade has more to play with in that respect.
 
Uhuh.

And you know exactly which play the Bills would run? Let's say they line up with Spiller and/or Jackson wide. Pats go dime/nickel.

Then bring them both in the backfield and run.

What now?

Either way you lose if you react by pulling LB from coverage just to stop the pass. They'll run right over you

How would you lose when Spikes and Hightower are not dropping into coverage like i said but are instead focused on:
A. Going after the QB
B. Stopping the Run
 
The Pats this year will go as far or not as Tom Brady's broad shoulders can carry them. That is why JM should just get outta' the way and stop trying to prove how innovative he is to us. Sure they should use no huddle when they can or at least when they should. But, is JM finally done with this bull or will it not end until we get to see him try a double reverse flea flicker?
 
True but i am more worried about <insert ANY Quarterback's name here> than Ray Rice or Arian Foster. Our secondary cant stop no body.

If Talib comes as advertised it may free up one of the Safeties to double up on the other side where the scrub CB is and help on obvious passing downs.

Talib's performance will either help a lot or just a little,but he WILL help these other cruds out just by being on the field,I am sure some QBs who have faced Talib before,will respect his talents and not always challenge him like the other duds we have out there.

If I am a HC,OC or QB and am facing the Pats,I have no idea why any team in the league would not pass all day long and forget the run.....in fact it befuddles me why opposing QBs don't pass 40 times or more when it's well known that Patricia is not a fan of the blitz so pressure is not that much of a concern.
 
Last edited:
As for the linebackers you are absolutely right! They are poor in coverage (mainly Spikes) yet we still drop them into coverage, they are inconsistent on the 4 man rush, yet we hardly blitz. How can you NOT blame coaching and scheme?

Doc Holiday already touched on part of this. I'll point out the other part, and it's something that's been pointed out seemingly a million times.

Bill Belichick believes that the worst thing you can do is give up the 50+ yard TD. As a result, he schemes to stop the 50+ yard TD. When you've got the kind of poor pass defending talent this team has, that means you will generally need to keep as many people in coverage as is possible. Now, you may not like that style, but it got the team to the Super Bowl last season, so I'll take it.

As far as the broncos you are nitpicking scores, i can show you far more games where Tim Tebow was just horrendous yet lucky then games where he played average enough to win. He did have a good game against the Steelers though. Tim Tebow we all know is hardly an aerial threat that you are making him out to be he was just fortunate enough to be on a talented Broncos team.

I'm not nitpicking scores, at all. You were denigrating the Broncos in order to minimize what the Patriots did in that playoff game. I simply showed your argument to be a poor one by pointing out what you were ignoring.

We can go on all night about whether it is coaching or talent. It is probably both, honestly I could care less as long as its fixed. They brought in Talib to bring in some talent, great, but how bout we try something new from our coaches like blitzing instead of dropping our talented but slow LB's into coverage eh? It's pretty obvious we have a very vanilla easy to read defense, which does nothing to help our porous secondary if the QB has all day to read and throw.

We could go on all night, and I'm sure that the coaching isn't perfect, since nothing is, but the bottom line is that it's a talent problem and not a coaching issue, and all the clamoring for "more blitzing!" isn't going to change that. The reality is that the great defense of the early 2000s disappeared with the defensive talent of the early 2000s. The poor defensive drafting and very spotty defensive free agent acquisitions, from 2007-2009, put the defense into a significant decline, and the team has taken a long time to rebuild a former strength. The team is currently about 1 DE, 1 pass defending LB, multiple DBs, some experience/seasoning, and maybe a return to the 3-4 base away from being a top tier defense. Hopefully, Talib will help with one of the DB spots.

The team has gone to 5 Super Bowls in 10 years, so let's stop with the "Scheme can't win!" and "these coaches suck!" crap, since it obviously can win, and the coaching has pretty obviously been high end during this run. Let's just stay focused on the real problem, which has been talent acquisition on the defensive side of the ball.
 
Last edited:
We could go on all night, and I'm sure that the coaching isn't perfect, since nothing is, but the bottom line is that it's a talent problem and not a coaching issue, and all the clamoring for "more blitzing!" isn't going to change that. The reality is that the great defense of the early 2000s disappeared with the defensive talent of the early 2000s. The poor defensive drafting and very spotty defensive free agent acquisitions, from 2007-2009, put the defense into a significant decline, and the team has taken a long time to rebuild a former strength. The team is currently about 1 DE, 1 pass defending LB, multiple DBs, some experience/seasoning, and maybe a return to the 3-4 base away from being a top tier defense. Hopefully, Talib will help with one of the DB spots.

How is that any different than the needs of the 2010 defense?

Except for the fact that we just used a 1st round pick on a DE and LB. And 2 2nd round picks on our secondary which is quite possibly worse.

That is why people continue to be upset about the defense and blaming coaching.
 
Satisfying to see a sharp football observer like Bedard calling out the continued poor secondary coaching. As he noted before, Belichick will hopefully just go ahead and do the secondary's job for them the rest of the way, in which case we'll likely see improvement again, like last year.

In the offseason, Belichick, a great coach who has overseen great coaching this decade, will likely make some overdue changes.
 
FINALLY, THANK YOU!

Mike Reiss is also calling out the Patriots defensive coaching, play calling and scheme. We need more writers to push this, hopefully just maybe BB will take notice and change things defensively a bit or hopefully in our case, a lot!

Bottom line is: Patricia needs to get demoted back to LB coach or fired entirely,

Has BB demoted or fired any coordinators ever?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.


Thursday Patriots Notebook 4/25: News and Notes
Patriots Kraft ‘Involved’ In Decision Making?  Zolak Says That’s Not the Case
MORSE: Final First Round Patriots Mock Draft
Slow Starts: Stark Contrast as Patriots Ponder Which Top QB To Draft
Wednesday Patriots Notebook 4/24: News and Notes
Tuesday Patriots Notebook 4/23: News and Notes
MORSE: Final 7 Round Patriots Mock Draft, Matthew Slater News
Bruschi’s Proudest Moment: Former LB Speaks to MusketFire’s Marshall in Recent Interview
Monday Patriots Notebook 4/22: News and Notes
Patriots News 4-21, Kraft-Belichick, A.J. Brown Trade?
Back
Top