Sea Bass in line to See Cash?

[RobertWeathers]

Do you really think Volmer's agent is likely to negotiate for RT money?

What I think is irrelevent. The Patriots are not going to play Vollmer LT money to play RT. Period.

If that is his agent's negotiating strategy the Pats will move on.

I would also assume that other NFL teams will not pay Vollmer LT $$ when he's only played the position out of need and he also has an injury history.

 

[patsfaninpa]

Less than half of his contract will be guaranteed. Why are we worried about injuries? We'd keep him for a year or two even if he did get hurt. If he has a serious injury you cut him. Geez.

 

[borg]

What I think is irrelevent. The Patriots are not going to play Vollmer LT money to pay RT. Period.

If that is his agent's negotiating strategy the Pats will move on.

I would also assume that other NFL teams will not pay Vollmer LT $$ when he's only played the position out of need and he also has an injury history.

A couple of points to remember going forward...

-In 2013, a salary floor gets instituted....basically teams must layout 89% of salary cap in cash each year going forward. Teams have to spend......talent be damned.
-Because the salary cap has increased significantly over the past few years and GMs have figured out how to avoid cap hell, teams have done a better job locking up talent earlier avoiding loss in Free Agency. Fewer premium FAs hit the market these days. Even when a middling FA does hit the market......Mark Anderson comes to mind......look what desperate teams are willing to spend for certain levels of talent.
-And check out some of the playoff caliber teams with O line/sack issues. Chicago and GB come to mind. There window is currently open....but for how long.

I just think Volmer sits in a very comfortable seat right now and if he can get through the rest of the year upright, the market will come to him.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Less than half of his contract will be guaranteed. Why are we worried about injuries? We'd keep him for a year or two even if he did get hurt. If he has a serious injury you cut him. Geez.

He has an injury history. If he didn't it wouldn't be an issue.

Also on a team's cost to value ratio when a player is being paid big $$ and isn't performing is a killer. Now you need to pay another player to occupy the roster spot and pay him.

Cutting him and accelorating the cap hit can really hurt a team.

 

[RobertWeathers]

A couple of points to remember going forward...

-In 2013, a salary floor gets instituted....basically teams must layout 89% of salary cap in cash each year going forward. Teams have to spend......talent be damned.
-Because the salary cap has increased significantly over the past few years and GMs have figured out how to avoid cap hell, teams have done a better job locking up talent earlier avoiding loss in Free Agency. Fewer premium FAs hit the market these days. Even when a middling FA does hit the market......Mark Anderson comes to mind......look what desperate teams are willing to spend for certain levels of talent.
-And check out some of the playoff caliber teams with O line/sack issues. Chicago and GB come to mind. There window is currently open....but for how long.

I just think Volmer sits in a very comfortable seat right now and if he can get through the rest of the year upright, the market will come to him.

You make good points, Borg not sure using Anderson helps your argument as he played DE, registered 10 sacks and played well in the playoffs. The Bills signed him to do just that- which means not change his position. I don't think there is a precident of a team signing a player to play LT when he has played RT.

You are speculating that a team or two will pay Vollmer big money to play LT when he has barely played it for the Pats. if the Pats thought he was a LT they would play him there and not Soldor. Of course, you may be right and other teams may disagree with the Pats.

I also don't think the Pats will overpay him just so the can meet the CBA guidelines but thats my opinion which is meaningless.

 

[patriot.de]

Volmer possesses big time leverage.

1) His replacement is Marcus Cannon.....need I say more.
2) He's Pro Bowl good and likely seen as a LT candidate for multiple LT needy teams
3) He's a Patriot ....(A) Dante trained which has value (B) Addition by subtraction.....help the buyer/hurt the Patriots.

4) He's German. Germans are loyal to death

 

[RodThePat]

Volmer possesses big time leverage.

1) His replacement is Marcus Cannon.....need I say more.
2) He's Pro Bowl good and likely seen as a LT candidate for multiple LT needy teams
3) He's a Patriot ....(A) Dante trained which has value (B) Addition by subtraction.....help the buyer/hurt the Patriots.

Look at the contracts some of the crappy teams in the league are throwing at FAs. There's huge money out there that has to be spent either on their own players or FAs.

It wasn't too long ago that the Pats were very tight handing out large contracts. Now everyone gets one. Just shows you how much money is available throughout the league. Volmer is GETTING PAID......by who??? TBD

Very cute to talk about Cannon as if he's assuredly horrible. Dude had a bad preseason, but so did Solder. Who's to say he can't play?

On your other points, do you really think somebody is going to hand him top-10 tackle money to protect the blindside, when they haven't really seen him do much of that as a pro? Tell me three teams that are on the verge of contending that don't already have a solid vet or a promising young player at LT. I honestly don't believe the market for him is all that big.

 

[Snake Eyes]

Very cute to talk about Cannon as if he's assuredly horrible. Dude had a bad preseason, but so did Solder. Who's to say he can't play?

On your other points, do you really think somebody is going to hand him top-10 tackle money to protect the blindside, when they haven't really seen him do much of that as a pro? Tell me three teams that are on the verge of contending that don't already have a solid vet or a promising young player at LT. I honestly don't believe the market for him is all that big.

Has Cannon done anything to show that he can play?

 

[Big-T]

If the worst case scenario happens and they can't reach a deal he could always be franchise tagged anyway.

 

[ATippett56]

~31m in free cap space

I'd like to know where you got that number.

Current cap space, NFLPA version | ProFootballTalk

Patriots $6.4 million

The New England Patriots will approximately have $19.85 million in cap space for the 2013 NFL Season plus an additional $6.4 million rolled over from the 2012 NFL Season, based upon 2012 NFL salary cap allocations to date.

 

[Big-T]

I'd like to know where you got that number.

Current cap space, NFLPA version | ProFootballTalk



The New England Patriots will approximately have $19.85 million in cap space for the 2013 NFL Season plus an additional $6.4 million rolled over from the 2012 NFL Season, based upon 2012 NFL salary cap allocations to date.

ESPN predict a 120.9m cap next season.
Jason at NY Jets cap has the Patriots $9,376,940 under the cap to roll forwards to next season.
He also has the Patriots currently at 99.1m for next season currently

= $31,176,940 free.

 

[ATippett56]

ESPN predict a 120.9m cap next season.

I have read the salary cap for the 2013 NFL Season will be $121.1 million so there is a minor difference.

Jason at NY Jets cap has the Patriots $9,376,940 under the cap to roll forwards to next season.

That number is incorrect compared to the NFLPA salary cap calculations for the 2012 NFL Season.

Current cap space, NFLPA version | ProFootballTalk

He also has the Patriots currently at 99.1m for next season currently.

You also forgot to add the $4 million plus dollars in dead money cap hits.

New England Patriots Salary Cap 2013

 

[NewFeep]

When healthy he's arguably a top 5 RT. I love the guy and love his game. I hope he's stays healthy and plays for us for a long time. Thanks for the great effort Sebastian and keep it up!!

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

4) He's German. Germans are loyal to death

Yah!
Herr Vollmer ist sehr gut and sehr gross!
Aber er ist immer kranken
Ich mag Herr Vollmer
Tag!

 

[borg]

You make good points, Borg not sure using Anderson helps your argument as he played DE, registered 10 sacks and played well in the playoffs. The Bills signed him to do just that- which means not change his position. I don't think there is a precident of a team signing a player to play LT when he has played RT.

You are speculating that a team or two will pay Vollmer big money to play LT when he has barely played it for the Pats. if the Pats thought he was a LT they would play him there and not Soldor. Of course, you may be right and other teams may disagree with the Pats.

I also don't think the Pats will overpay him just so the can meet the CBA guidelines but thats my opinion which is meaningless.

-Anderson banked a very nice contract based primarily on his strong 2011 second half.....much like TBC after his Patriot return.... My point using Anderson and now TBC....it only takes flashes to get paid when the timing is right. Vollmer has a much stronger history....all pro in 2010/high regards so far in 2012/8 game starter so far this year. Vollmer is legit....far from being just a flash.

-I found an article stating, as of Feb 2012, that the average contract for a starting RT in the NFL was $5.1 mill. This number includes any starting RT on a rookie contract that suppresses the average. With Vollmer being labelled as one of if not the best RT in the NFL, he will certainly earn substantially more than league average. Whether a team values him as a LT, we'll see, but he should be able to demand the highest RT coin. When the best at any position hits the market, they get paid.

-As far as reaching the 89% salary floor starting in 2013, no doubt that will never be an issue in NE. But it will alter the spending habits of many teams. Imagine being an owner with a horrendous, talentless roster....and still be required to pay up to the minimum....approx $110 mill that gets you a couple of wins. Good players will make big bucks from bad teams.

-Vollmer will have earned $3.1 mill over the 4 years of his rookie contract. $4+mill/year less than his RT position average. Will he take a hometown discount to stay in NE? Brady no longer takes one for the team. Neither did Mankins nor Welker....yet they all got top 5 money after pressing management. This is Vollmers chance to cash in. If you had a gimpy back that could shut you down for the rest of your career, wouldn't you try to maximize possibly your only opportunity to hit it big?

-With the early signings of Gronk and AHern, one has to wonder why SeaBass hasn't seen similar love. It could be as simple as injury fear.....or it could be due to a player/agent with much higher expectations than NE. This should get interesting....and I have to believe the futures of Vollmer and Welker are somehow linked. Time will tell

 

[RobertWeathers]

-Anderson banked a very nice contract based primarily on his strong 2011 second half.....much like TBC after his Patriot return.... My point using Anderson and now TBC....it only takes flashes to get paid when the timing is right. Vollmer has a much stronger history....all pro in 2010/high regards so far in 2012/8 game starter so far this year. Vollmer is legit....far from being just a flash.

Completely agree. if SB stays healthy he is in line for good payday.

--I found an article stating, as of Feb 2012, that the average contract for a starting RT in the NFL was $5.1 mill. This number includes any starting RT on a rookie contract that suppresses the average. With Vollmer being labelled as one of if not the best RT in the NFL, he will certainly earn substantially more than league average. Whether a team values him as a LT, we'll see, but he should be able to demand the highest RT coin. When the best at any position hits the market, they get paid.

The most recent big RT signing was Eric Winston for 4/$22m w $8.4m signing bonus. If Vollmer stays healthy the rest of the year, he has every chance of making that here or somewhere else.

--As far as reaching the 89% salary floor starting in 2013, no doubt that will never be an issue in NE. But it will alter the spending habits of many teams. Imagine being an owner with a horrendous, talentless roster....and still be required to pay up to the minimum....approx $110 mill that gets you a couple of wins. Good players will make big bucks from bad teams.

Even the bad/small market teams are profitable- thus the reason why they are required to pay up to 89% floor.

--Vollmer will have earned $3.1 mill over the 4 years of his rookie contract. $4+mill/year less than his RT position average. Will he take a hometown discount to stay in NE? Brady no longer takes one for the team. Neither did Mankins nor Welker....yet they all got top 5 money after pressing management. This is Vollmers chance to cash in. If you had a gimpy back that could shut you down for the rest of your career, wouldn't you try to maximize possibly your only opportunity to hit it big?

He shouldn't take a home town discount. He should go after every penny. But he can't expect to get LT money playing RT for the Pats. If he wants LT money then he won't be here.

--With the early signings of Gronk and AHern, one has to wonder why SeaBass hasn't seen similar love. It could be as simple as injury fear.....or it could be due to a player/agent with much higher expectations than NE. This should get interesting....and I have to believe the futures of Vollmer and Welker are somehow linked. Time will tell

He hasn't been healthy. He was a 2nd team ProBowler. Hes a solid player. The team loves him. They want him here- for the right contract of course.

 

[patfanken]

Don't get yourself in a an uproar Borgy, Sea Bass will be paid....and very well next season, and most likely by the Pats. I wouldn't be surprised if it gets done quickly like we saw with the Gronk and Herandez signings before he hits FA. Personally I'd look for something in the 4-6 year range in the 6-8MM/yr range with lots of injury protections for the Pats long term and about $8MM up front

If you are right and he's "only" made $3.1MM in total to date for 4 years, an $8MM one time payout would look awfully good Plus $6+/yr in new cash annually. I think the key deal is Brady's. Once his deal is worked out then, Volmer, Welker, etc will resolve themselves quickly one way or the other. But quite frankly if the choice is between Vomer and Welker, one or the other, then there is no choice. You'd HAVE to go with Volmer. Hopefully it won't come to that,

 

[mayoclinic]

Don't get yourself in a an uproar Borgy, Sea Bass will be paid....and very well next season, and most likely by the Pats. I wouldn't be surprised if it gets done quickly like we saw with the Gronk and Herandez signings before he hits FA. Personally I'd look for something in the 4-6 year range in the 6-8MM/yr range with lots of injury protections for the Pats long term and about $8MM up front

If he's "only" made $4MM in total to date for 4 years, an $8MM one time payout would look awfully good Plus $6+/yr in new cash annually. I think the key deal is Brady's. Once his deal is worked out then, Volmer, Welker, etc will resolve themselves quickly one way or the other. But quite frankly if the choice is between Vomer and Welker, one or the other, then there is no choice. You'd HAVE to go with Volmer. Hopefully it won't come to that,

I'm with you, Ken. I'm pretty sure Seabass will great paid, and probably more than RT money, assuming that his back holds up. If there are ongoing health questions that's another matter altogether, but he's playing at a Pro Bowl level again this season. That would make 2 Pro Bowl/All Pro seasons out of 4, plus the swing tackle versatility. He and Solder are one of the best young pair of bookend tackles in the league, and I don't think the Pats would let that go to waste. I'm also guessing that they would probably structure a long term deal in 2 parts, with an option clause to protect them in case he wears down over time, as well as with the injury issues that you discussed. If it were a 6 year deal, I'd expect something like a 3+3 or 4+2 kind of structure with an option bonus that would kick in if he continues to play at a high level.

 

[RodThePat]

Has Cannon done anything to show that he can play?

He held his own when called upon last season and was a very good player in college. But sure, let's dismiss that based on 40 preseason snaps in which the entire OL looked like dog****, including Solder who's having a Pro-Bowl type season.

 

[jason423]

On the 89% floor- remember that the league breaks it up into 4 year buckets not year by year spending. If teams don't see players worth paying in 2013 they won't screw up their cap. Better to waits until 2015 or 2016 and front load deals with bonus money. Remember all bonuses are cash payments in that year even if the cap doesn't account for it that way. The financial penalties are also not killer for failing to comply. Whatever the shortfall the team pays to the players under contract those years. It's probably better to pay older guys than screw your cap by overpaying a Mario Williams or pierre garçon just to reach the threshold.

I'm not really sure on the pats cap number as that pft number threw me for a loop. There may be some behind the scenes moves going on such as a grievance by a player but it may also just be the database. The day of the report was around a flurry of activity by the patriots. Sometimes they fail to take players off rosters until they clear waivers. In theory they could have had a 56 or 57 man roster that day. That is what happened with the bills earlier in the year when pft was way off based on the numbers they received. I'll try to get it worked out at some point.

My guess is Vollmer will get an incentive laden deal. They will tie the salary into games active as well as if he plays left or right tackle with salaries escalating if he plays the left side. That said I do think left tackle salaries will begin to drop soon. With teams featuring so many rushers the blindside has become less important. It's. Ether to invest in both sides than just the left.

Sorry for any bad spelling or anything else but I'm typing on my phone as wwe await the return of power in nj.