Picking at the scab..

[Whatarunweareon...]

Hi all, I was in Herrenberg Germany watching the Pats Indy game on a slingbox with poor bandwidth so picture quality and tivo control problems limited my ability to analyse play by play action.

Now that I have returned to the US and have the game on a HD Tivo I was reviewing the Troy Brown offensive pass interference call. I thought pass interference was only when the ball is in the air, Troy made contact with the DB about 3 yards from the line of scrimmage and was separated from the DB before Brady threw it to Watson. In fact the DB moves laterally to disrupt Troy's route which is OK within 5 yards, but the DB initiated the contact and Troy’s response pushed the DB backwards.

I posted a regular speed video with Simms audio totally supporting the call, and a second one in slow motion.

Am I missing something on the rules about PI?

I still think we had more than enough opportunities to win the game but I think this is the decisive play of the game. Troy was fine, just bad luck it was his play.

Regular Speed:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=36-Elv4ZGzc

Slow Motion:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B05NpcKZ1XA

 

[Whatarunweareon...]

Sorry links were bad:

Regular speed:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xrjk7Rg8K7k


Slow Mo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aXBWoe3qPgE

 

[Krugman]

When I saw that play live,I thought that Brown gave the guy a good shot,must have been past the 5 yard mark ,it was hard to tell by the camera from the rear,and the only comment I recall was "oh yeah Brown's gonna get a flag for that" or something similiar.When I see this,he is clearly well within the 5 yd zone.....As much as I hate the Colts they still beat us,but crap like this can end a season for a team,the PI and roughing the passer penalties have got to change somehow,they are starting to ruin this game.

 

[Fixit]

When I saw that play live,I thought that Brown gave the guy a good shot,must have been past the 5 yard mark ,it was hard to tell by the camera from the rear,and the only comment I recall was "oh yeah Brown's gonna get a flag for that" or something similiar.When I see this,he is clearly well within the 5 yd zone.....As much as I hate the Colts they still beat us,but crap like this can end a season for a team,the PI and roughing the passer penalties have got to change somehow,they are starting to ruin this game.

Man, that call is worse than I thought it was. Troy and the defender were legally chucking each other.

 

[Oswlek]

I thought it was a good call live, but now with the benefit of slow motion, I have changed my mind. I had orignally thought that Brown just ran into a guy who had set his postion, but that was not the case. The defender clearly moves to his left just as Brown was coming near him and is mostly responsible for the contact being so forceful.

Also, I don't know if this matters, but the ball was not out yet when Brown and the defender collided. If the penalty was on the D, it would have only been a 5 yarder, not the 10 that NE was penalized. Is that a further mistake? Is there an "Illegal Contact" penalty on a WR?

 

[PATSNUTme]

When I first saw the title of the thread I felt like

.

But now that I have read the title again, I just feel like

 

[kolbitr]

Man, that call is worse than I thought it was. Troy and the defender were legally chucking each other.

Yep, and what makes it even worse is that it was called on the one person on the field I would trust to know exactly where he was, and what was legal.

A momentum-breaker. Still...it's only one play.

 

[Seymour93]

Also, I don't know if this matters, but the ball was not out yet when Brown and the defender collided. If the penalty was on the D, it would have only been a 5 yarder, not the 10 that NE was penalized. Is that a further mistake? Is there an "Illegal Contact" penalty on a WR?

For a Patriots' WR, yes there is.

That's so frustrating to watch. The NFL will get those videos scrapped from YouTube any second now. :violent:

 

[sieglo]

So what is that, now.... THREE definitely bogus PI calls against us or not made for us in that game, and counting.... Worse than Denver last year.

 

[BelichickFan]

It was 4 yards downfield. I assume that's legal just like it's legal for a DB to do the same to a WR within 5 yards.

Am I wrong ?

 

[BelichickFan]

The defender clearly moves to his left just as Brown was coming near him and is mostly responsible for the contact being so forceful.

Yeah, the defender clearly moved into Troy's path and Troy pushes him at 4 yards.

Kind of fitting that three downfield contact calls decided the game.

 

[BelichickFan]

Am I the only one who feels better after seeing this ?

Yeah, we got bent over and screwed. Fine. That sucks. But the sh!t in the punchbowl for me from this game for me that I don't want to think about has been that, although we wouldn't have been in the game without Troy, his penalty was the key "mistake" we made that cost us the game. That first down and the game is pretty much over.

I feel MUCH better knowing that it wasn't a mistake by Troy but by the officials. If Troy had a legit penalty, I would still love him but that play would always kind of hang there in my memory. Now I can just roll my eyes and the PolianOfficials.

 

[Oswlek]

Yeah, the defender clearly moved into Troy's path and Troy pushes him at 4 yards.

Kind of fitting that three downfield contact calls decided the game.

Oddly enough, two of which went against the WRs.

 

[BelichickFan]

Oddly enough, two of which went against the WRs.

Which other was against a WR ?

When I said 3 I was thinking of :

- this call against Troy
- the PI against Hobbs in the end zone
- the non PI against Indy against Caldwell in the end zone.

 

[Oswlek]

Which other was against a WR ?

When I said 3 I was thinking of :

- this call against Troy
- the PI against Hobbs in the end zone
- the non PI against Indy against Caldwell in the end zone.

Against the WR as in, it wasn't the defense that was flagged. With all of Polian's *****ing, if I had told you that three pass interference plays would alter the complexion of the game, how many of those would you think went against NE's defense?

 

[BelichickFan]

Against the WR as in, it wasn't the defense that was flagged. With all of Polian's *****ing, if I had told you that three pass interference plays would alter the complexion of the game, how many of those would you think went against NE's defense?

Gotcha. Yeah, it's ironic that his ***** ass *****ing gets him to the SB and we have to watch him win it. The horror

 

[letekro]

What game were you guys watching?

We couldn't stop them in the second half. Period. We didn't deserve to win.

 

[Seymour93]

What game were you guys watching?

We couldn't stop them in the second half. Period. We didn't deserve to win.

That's not the point. I don't think anyone is saying the refs cost us the game. No, it was the collapse of the defense and the fact we didn't make the plays when we had chances to close out the game. What I think people are getting at, is the refs certainly didn't help our cause. Actually they accelerated our downfall.

 

[MTaylorJ1]

What game were you guys watching?

We couldn't stop them in the second half. Period. We didn't deserve to win.

If it were only that simple. If even one of those 3 gets called properly then the story isn't "we couldn't stop them in the 2nd half". That's how much a seemingly insignificant call can change an outcome.

To review:

1.) If Brown isn't called for O.P.I. the Patriots have 1st and 10 at the Colts 19. Where at that point they had shown NO ability to stop us, and momentum is moving in our direction like a tidal wave. Worst case here...we kick a FG, The colts at this point, probably don't get the ball back until the 2:00 warning DOWN 24-3. The drive they had to kick THEIR field goal took 3 minutes.

2.) Hobbs ISN'T called for P.I. on 2nd and 7. Even if you argue that the Colts eventually score. Chances are it takes them another 2 or 3 plays to do so, since they likely won't throw to the end zone on 3rd and 7. Which would take another minute off the clock. The difference here? The Patriots get the ball back with 2:22 up 3 at the end of the game.

3.) Hayden IS called for P.I. in the end zone. Worst Case. Patriots score...on the first play. Instead of eating up another 2 minutes to do so. Even at the very worst, this game goes to OT. More than likely when the Patriots get the ball back up 7 in the end, they don't throw at all, and the Colts have to drive the length of the field knowing they need a TD to TIE.


At some point, when a tired, banged up team, on the road, has made the majority of the plays, its almost too much to ask them to keep making extra plays to overcome bad calls.

 

[BelichickFan]

What game were you guys watching?

We couldn't stop them in the second half. Period. We didn't deserve to win.

Without that phantom call it's almost certainly 24-3 or 28-3 at halftime. Game over.