Very Staggering Stat On Defense: Pats lead NFL in Forced Fumbles & Fumble Recoveries

[Joey007]

...and it's actually positive.


The Pats lead the league with 14 FF and 11 FR's.

That's insane. That's 3 more FR's than anyone else in the league. 20 turnovers so far counting the 9 INT's as well.

Bizarre considering how poor the back 4 have been playing. This goes to show how Spikes is truly playing at a pro bowl-caliber level. He just makes plays.

 

[PatsFanSince74]

re: Very Staggering Stat On Defense: Pats lead NFL in Forced Fumbles & Fumble Recoveries

...and it's actually positive.


The Pats lead the league with 14 FF and 11 FR's.

That's insane. That's 3 more FR's than anyone else in the league. 20 turnovers so far counting the 9 INT's as well.

Bizarre considering how poor the back 4 have been playing. This goes to show how Spikes is truly playing at a pro bowl-caliber level. He just makes plays.

I've been following the NFL since 1960 and consider myself a bit of a stats geek in some ways, but what the hell is an "FF?" I kind of can figure out that an FR is a "Fumble Recovery" unless it's a "Frigid Rastafarian."

 

[Bella*chick]

re: Very Staggering Stat On Defense: Pats lead NFL in Forced Fumbles & Fumble Recoveries

Forced fumble, maybe?

 

[jah]

re: Very Staggering Stat On Defense: Pats lead NFL in Forced Fumbles & Fumble Recoveries

I've been following the NFL since 1960 and consider myself a bit of a stats geek in some ways, but what the hell is an "FF?" I kind of can figure out that an FR is a "Fumble Recovery" unless it's a "Frigid Rastafarian."

Forced Fumble.

 

[Joey007]

re: Very Staggering Stat On Defense: Pats lead NFL in Forced Fumbles & Fumble Recoveries

Forced fumble, maybe?

My apoligies. Yes, FF is forced fumble and FR is fumble recoveries. I usually abbreviate them.

 

[RodThePat]

re: Very Staggering Stat On Defense: Pats lead NFL in Forced Fumbles & Fumble Recoveries

That's all great, but I'd rather have a defense that consistently makes the opponent punt the ball, than one who gets a lot of takeaways. Turnovers, especially fumble recoveries, have an inherent component of luck to them. Not saying that it means our defense is without it's merits, but I just worry that on a day where our offense isn't setting the world on fire and we, for some reason, don't get the ball when it hits the ground on defense, we end up losing the game, just like it happened in the Superbowl.

 

[PatsFanSince74]

re: Very Staggering Stat On Defense: Pats lead NFL in Forced Fumbles & Fumble Recoveries

Forced Fumble.

OK. Then, what's the big deal? "We hit our opponents hard and they fumble a lot if they don't first throw the ball to receivers with ten yards of separation on our 'secondary?'"

 

[Joey007]

re: Very Staggering Stat On Defense: Pats lead NFL in Forced Fumbles & Fumble Recoveries

That's all great, but I'd rather have a defense that consistently makes the opponent punt the ball, than one who gets a lot of takeaways. Turnovers, especially fumble recoveries, have an inherent component of luck to them. Not saying that it means our defense is without it's merits, but I just worry that on a day where our offense isn't setting the world on fire and we, for some reason, don't get the ball when it hits the ground on defense, we end up losing the game, just like it happened in the Superbowl.

I agree. These recoveries overall won't mean much when you're letting the opposing QB's run you over the rest of the day. Thankfully, we're still only midway through the season so our defensive woes can certainly be fixed.

As for luck being involved you're right. Fumble recoveries do invlolve luck. But remember forcing the fumbles does not involve luck but invlolves the defensive player getting his hands on the ball and taking it away from the ball carrier. They don't call them takeaways for no reason.

 

[ALP]

re: Very Staggering Stat On Defense: Pats lead NFL in Forced Fumbles & Fumble Recoveries

That's all great, but I'd rather have a defense that consistently makes the opponent punt the ball, than one who gets a lot of takeaways. Turnovers, especially fumble recoveries, have an inherent component of luck to them. Not saying that it means our defense is without it's merits, but I just worry that on a day where our offense isn't setting the world on fire and we, for some reason, don't get the ball when it hits the ground on defense, we end up losing the game, just like it happened in the Superbowl.

i would normally agree, but not this year w/ this team, many of those came b/c the defense was actively looking/creating them

 

[Patriots Nation NY]

re: Very Staggering Stat On Defense: Pats lead NFL in Forced Fumbles & Fumble Recoveries

That's all great, but I'd rather have a defense that consistently makes the opponent punt the ball, than one who gets a lot of takeaways. Turnovers, especially fumble recoveries, have an inherent component of luck to them. Not saying that it means our defense is without it's merits, but I just worry that on a day where our offense isn't setting the world on fire and we, for some reason, don't get the ball when it hits the ground on defense, we end up losing the game, just like it happened in the Superbowl.

uggghhh ... luck is the residue of design grasshopper..

 

[sly24]

re: Very Staggering Stat On Defense: Pats lead NFL in Forced Fumbles & Fumble Recoveries

More importantly, Jones leads all rookies with 6.0 sacks (12th in the league). He's also got 3 forced fumbles and that's good for 2nd in the league. He also has only 1 less tackle than JJ Watt. Ninko is tied for first in the league with 4 forced fumbles. If the secondary could learn to play shutdown man-to-man, this defense could be SCARY!

 

[Joey007]

re: Very Staggering Stat On Defense: Pats lead NFL in Forced Fumbles & Fumble Recoveries

OK. Then, what's the big deal? "We hit our opponents hard and they fumble a lot if they don't first throw the ball to receivers with ten yards of separation on our 'secondary?'"

Again this is really about the front 7's performance taking the ball away since most of the fumbles forced were no thanks to the secondary. My point I was trying to make wasn't really much to do with the secondary, but more about guys like Mayo, Spikes, Jones, Wilfork, and Ninkovich who have been making plays.

 

[Ring 6]

re: Very Staggering Stat On Defense: Pats lead NFL in Forced Fumbles & Fumble Recoveries

That's all great, but I'd rather have a defense that consistently makes the opponent punt the ball, than one who gets a lot of takeaways. Turnovers, especially fumble recoveries, have an inherent component of luck to them. Not saying that it means our defense is without it's merits, but I just worry that on a day where our offense isn't setting the world on fire and we, for some reason, don't get the ball when it hits the ground on defense, we end up losing the game, just like it happened in the Superbowl.

You can say the same thing about a defense that is good on 3rd down and doesn't take the ball away.
Ultimately 'good' vs 'average' on 3rd down is about 1 conversion a game.
Example:
49ers are 3rd best in 3rd down conversions at 32% (34/107) in 8 games and the Rams are 17th at 40% (41/103) in 8 games. The Rams are mediocre at 3rd down D by allowing less than 1 more conversion a game.
By contrast we are 24th at 43/101 for 43%, but we have 20 takeaways, vs 9 for the Rams and 12 for the 9ers.
Therefore, the Rams have allowed 2 fewer conversions than us, but our additional 11 takeaways means we get off the field better, and the 49ers allowed 9 fewer conversions but our 8 additional takeaways makes it virtually even.
Perception and reality often conflict.

 

[Joey007]

re: Very Staggering Stat On Defense: Pats lead NFL in Forced Fumbles & Fumble Recoveries

More importantly, Jones leads all rookies with 6.0 sacks (12th in the league). He's also got 3 forced fumbles and that's good for 2nd in the league. He also has only 1 less tackle than JJ Watt. Ninko is tied for first in the league with 4 forced fumbles. If the secondary could learn to play shutdown man-to-man, this defense could be SCARY!

Easier said than done for sure.

 

[ausbacker]

re: Very Staggering Stat On Defense: Pats lead NFL in Forced Fumbles & Fumble Recoveries

Easier said than done for sure.

The secondary only needs to improve to mediocre for the D to become a good unit. That says volumes about the performance of the secondary and/or the DB coaching.

 

[Joey007]

re: Very Staggering Stat On Defense: Pats lead NFL in Forced Fumbles & Fumble Recoveries

The secondary only needs to improve to mediocre for the D to become a good unit. That says volumes about the performance of the secondary and/or the DB coaching.

If they can at least turn into playing near middle-of-the-pack, that's still a possibility.

But he's talking shut-down. We're not the 49ers here.

 

[supafly]

re: Very Staggering Stat On Defense: Pats lead NFL in Forced Fumbles & Fumble Recoveries

The secondary only needs to improve to mediocre for the D to become a good unit. That says volumes about the performance of the secondary and/or the DB coaching.

With McCourty showing solid play at safety (our version of FS) and Dennard taking his place just fine, that already bodes well for an improved secondary down the stretch in my opinion.

Cole seems to have earned more reps as a slot CB too, which is just another bonus.

The weak links are Chung and Arrington, so it will all depend on how/when Belichick incorporates them back into the lineup. When that happens, we will likely see a step or two down again in my opinion.

I think the others have proven to be just as capable, if not more at this point.

 

[supafly]

re: Very Staggering Stat On Defense: Pats lead NFL in Forced Fumbles & Fumble Recoveries

If they can at least turn into playing near middle-of-the-pack, that's still a possibility.

But he's talking shut-down. We're not the 49ers here.

No, and that's a fair point, but we don't have to be either.

 

[Joey007]

re: Very Staggering Stat On Defense: Pats lead NFL in Forced Fumbles & Fumble Recoveries

No, and that's a fair point, but we don't have to be either.

Didn't say we had to. I was just saying we have no where near a top tier secondary on our roster, but that is okay.

 

[supafly]

re: Very Staggering Stat On Defense: Pats lead NFL in Forced Fumbles & Fumble Recoveries

Didn't say we had to. I was just saying we have no where near a top tier secondary on our roster, but that is okay.

Sure because in the same vein, the 49ers are not the NEP on offense either.

Like you said, there's no way that they will even be considered "shutdown," but something in the middle would be just fine for the majority of the games.

I expected a point or two shaved off the defensive average coming into the season, and sadly that has not happened as of yet.