What DB do you like?

[Merril Hoge's Tie Knot]

This board is on a tear over Jordan. No more obvious then when a thread is labeled "What DB do you like?", and we're talking about ends...

Not sure what your talking about. I'm literally watching him play cornerback right now.

 

[fightingirish595]

i like vacarro too but hes going to go before we pick

 

[manxman2601]

I'e been watching some safety play recently and here are some quick thoughts on some of the guys I've watched.

Eric Reid

A lesser version of Mark Barron. Excellent when the plays in front of him. Very good angles in run support - able to jump on passes in his zone but I wouldn't trust him in man coverage on nimble TE's or slot guys. As a run support safety or the last line of defense guy in cover 1 or 2, he's worth a first rounder. However, not convinced he is when it comes to the Patriots system.

Kenny Vaccaro


Really conflicted here. I know a lot of people like him a lot. He's very athletic and is one of the better cover safeties in the draft. I think he's probably the number one safety in the draft but I cannot get all that interested in him. He takes some really bad angles both in run support and pass coverage and I think he relies too much on his athleticism and less on football smarts. I would be neither happy or disappointed to get him in the first round. Just can't get behind him in the same way some do on this site and at NEPatriotsdraft.

Tony Jefferson

The best coverage safety in the draft but he's a really bad tackler - plays very soft. I thought he might be the better fit, but I'm really not interested now.

Robert Lester

Because of my Barron fixation last year, I got to watch a lot of Lester. He's about as meh! as it gets. He's just OK. Ok in pass coverage, OK in instincts, OK in run support. I doubt he will become a regular starter and I'm not that keen on the Patriots drafting him.

TJ McDonald

Has terrific length and when I watch him, I see his length and want him for the Pats. But then I see his stiffness and general weakness in coverage and don't see a safety that can necessarily improve our secondary.

Matt Elam

Biiig hitter! Love watching him play and he's shown that he can cover at the college level. Just worried that he'll be Patrick Chung at the next level basically. Wouldn't be disappointed if we drafted him because there's a lot to like and hopefully he'd become the better Patrick Chung.

John Boyett

Oregon safety, injured for the year. If he checks out medically he could be really interesting as a late round option. He's a Patrick Chung/ Harrison Smith cross and as a late round option he'd be a very good pick even if he only ever provides depth for us.


My two favourites so far:

LaMarcus Joyner

Personally I think he's got the best instincts of any draft eligible safety. The only safety I think worth taking ahead of Joyner if he declares is Vaccaro. Size limitations be damned (5'8") - Joyner would be an automatic upgrade to our secondary.

Malcolm Bronson

Only seen one game and he's now injured for the rest of the season. I absolutely loved the tape I saw. Hits like a train, gets up in run support very quickly, has excellent range in coverage and did I say hits like a train? Draft him! Even if it's only for the practice squad initially.



Edit - Draft Bronson this year in the seventh, draft Joyner and Sunseri next year and we'll never give up a deep pass again because no receiver would want to mess with those three.

 

[Luxusdk]

Vaccaro is senior, pretty sure he's there at april

 

[manxman2601]

Vaccaro is senior, pretty sure he's there at april

I meant Joyner - can see why you read it the other way.

 

[Luxusdk]

I meant Joyner - can see why you read it the other way.

Yeah ok - Im at the point with safetys and corners, that BB should give a **** about there run support, aslong they'r fast and can cover. Really like the big size corner's Seattle use. They might not be the best in run support, but they cover the backfield.
With safetys, i have it like rbs - Size ain't importent. Speed, leaping and agility. The run support safetys are out dated, a bonus skill. But aslong we have BB that won't change.
BB loves Ed Reed, look at him, he's not a great run support, but you have to account for him. Really haven't figured why BB can't see that :bricks:

 

[manxman2601]

Yeah ok - Im at the point with safetys and corners, that BB should give a **** about there run support, aslong they'r fast and can cover. Really like the big size corner's Seattle use. They might not be the best in run support, but they cover the backfield.
With safetys, i have it like rbs - Size ain't importent. Speed, leaping and agility. The run support safetys are out dated, a bonus skill. But aslong we have BB that won't change.
BB loves Ed Reed, look at him, he's not a great run support, but you have to account for him. Really haven't figured why BB can't see that :bricks:

Three things on run support:

1) BB values it very highly - above pass defense so it matters whether we like it or not

2) Without access to all-22 tape, it's mostly what we amateurs get to see of safety play

3) Which isn't a problem for me because it tells me a lot about football intelligence and instincts.

 

[reflexblue]

mike haynes......

 

[Luxusdk]

Three things on run support:

1) BB values it very highly - above pass defense so it matters whether we like it or not

2) Without access to all-22 tape, it's mostly what we amateurs get to see of safety play

3) Which isn't a problem for me because it tells me a lot about football intelligence and instincts.

But move a step back and look at it from another point of view. Either you have a front who stop the run and a backfield vs cast or you have a pass rushing front and a backfield there can support vs the run. Right now we have RUN AND RUN. This is old out dated football. Look at giants. They have a pass front have run back field basicly, they'll beat us 8/10 times.

 

[Merril Hoge's Tie Knot]

But move a step back and look at it from another point of view. Either you have a front who stop the run and a backfield vs cast or you have a pass rushing front and a backfield there can support vs the run. Right now we have RUN AND RUN. This is old out dated football. Look at giants. They have a pass front have run back field basicly, they'll beat us 8/10 times.

Interesting. Send your complains to:

Bill Belichick's Trash Can
New England Patriots
One Patriot Place
Foxborough, MA 02035

 

[Pats-Phan]

Two guys I'll be keeping an eye on:

Xavier Rhodes CB Florida State 6'2'' 215 lbs. projected late 1st to mid 2nd.
Ideal size. His speed isn't great but it is sufficient. Plays press coverage at FSU so is already familiar the technique. Tape of him turning and looking for the ball, hopefully that doesnt take him off our board. some injury concerns i havent looked much into.

Dee Milliner CB Bama 6'1'' 200lbs projected early 1st but it's early and he could drop down to late 1st depending on combine / pro day / etc. Has the Saban connection, I'd be interested to hear what Nick thought about Milliner vs Kirkpatrick.

Both guys have the size to play at the NFl level which is a requirement for a 1st round selection. I like the idea of McCourty / Wilson safety tandem. We need some elite speed at one safety spot. Big physical corners of Dowling and Milliner / Rhodes and Dennard in the slot. Sounds like an improvement over what we have now.

 

[mayoclinic]

Two guys I'll be keeping an eye on:

Xavier Rhodes CB Florida State 6'2'' 215 lbs. projected late 1st to mid 2nd.
Ideal size. His speed isn't great but it is sufficient. Plays press coverage at FSU so is already familiar the technique. Tape of him turning and looking for the ball, hopefully that doesnt take him off our board. some injury concerns i havent looked much into.

Dee Milliner CB Bama 6'1'' 200lbs projected early 1st but it's early and he could drop down to late 1st depending on combine / pro day / etc. Has the Saban connection, I'd be interested to hear what Nick thought about Milliner vs Kirkpatrick.

Both guys have the size to play at the NFl level which is a requirement for a 1st round selection. I like the idea of McCourty / Wilson safety tandem. We need some elite speed at one safety spot. Big physical corners of Dowling and Milliner / Rhodes and Dennard in the slot. Sounds like an improvement over what we have now.

Rhodes seems kind of stiff to me, not so sure how he'll do as a CB in the pros.

Milliner looks like the real deal, but very doubtful that he will drop out of the top 20. Right now he and Jonathan Banks look like the top 2 CBs in the 2013 draft. I'd be happy with either if we were to take a CB.

 

[manxman2601]

Rhodes seems kind of stiff to me, not so sure how he'll do as a CB in the pros.

Milliner looks like the real deal, but very doubtful that he will drop out of the top 20. Right now he and Jonathan Banks look like the top 2 CBs in the 2013 draft. I'd be happy with either if we were to take a CB.

Doesn't seem like a great CB class at the top - Milliner, Banks then who pretty much describes it.

 

[mackenzie45220]

Doesn't seem like a great CB class at the top - Milliner, Banks then who pretty much describes it.

Aaron Hester and Sheldon Price are two of the most underrated corners I have ever seen (I will continue to refer you to them vs. A.J. Jenkins in the Kraft Fight Hunger Bowl), but, to me, Banks>Milliner.

 

[Avenger]

Bradley McDougald, S, Kansas
plays both FS and SS, played WR his first two years, solid frame at 6-1 209. Weiss said he was as good as anybody on the team, seams like a Belichick player offense/defense/special teams. I wouldn't mind spending a late round pick on him.

 

[ATippett56]

Aaron Hester and Sheldon Price are two of the most underrated corners I have ever seen (I will continue to refer you to them vs. A.J. Jenkins in the Kraft Fight Hunger Bowl), but, to me, Banks>Milliner.

What's your scouting report on cornerback Jordan Poyer from Oregon State?

 

[mayoclinic]

To me, Banks>Milliner.

I agree, but Milliner is still pretty darn good . He's a top 20 player, and I think he 's better than Dre Kirkpatrick was.

Here's a nice read:

Alabama football — Shutdown corner: Crimson Tide's Dee Milliner taking play to another level | The Montgomery Advertiser | montgomeryadvertiser.com

 

[mayoclinic]

Here's an interesting sounding FCS safety prospect:

al.com: Birmingham : Alabama State safety Kejuan Riley looking for interceptions in Magic City Classic

I don't know anything about him, but his size and apparent ball skills makes it seem like it's worth taking a look at him.

 

[Avenger]

watching some Tryrann Mathieu tape from last year, if he can put it together this kid can be electric at the next level. If we walk out of the draft next year TJ McDonald and Mathieu I think our secondary issues would be a thing of the past. Wilson and McDonald to shore up the back end, with McCourty and Dennard on the outside and Mathieu as the slot corner would make a world of difference. McDonald in the 1st round, Mathieu in the 7th.

 

[Merril Hoge's Tie Knot]

watching some Tryrann Mathieu tape from last year, if he can put it together this kid can be electric at the next level. If we walk out of the draft next year TJ McDonald and Mathieu I think our secondary issues would be a thing of the past. Wilson and McDonald to shore up the back end, with McCourty and Dennard on the outside and Mathieu as the slot corner would make a world of difference. McDonald in the 1st round, Mathieu in the 7th.

I'm with you on Mathieu (kinda) but I don't know what you see in McDonald. I can't find much I like about him and I watch USC all the time.

He just not good enough. He doesn't recognize plays quick enough, doesn't play the ball well, and he isn't physical.

Pauline wrote this the other day and I agree with him.

Sliders

Tim McDonald/S/USC: McDonald entered the year with first-round grades after opting to return for his senior season, yet has played uninspired in 2012. His instincts have been marginal and he always seems a half step late arriving to the play. At the top of his game, McDonald enforces the action in centerfield, yet he's not met expectations this season.

Ezekiel Ansah rises, Tim McDonald falls, more notes - Tony Pauline - SI.com