Curran:Answers elusive for Patriots defense

[goheels22002]

It was a mistake, just as the Merriweather cut was a mistake. They weren't necessarily mistakes based upon the players themselves. They were mistakes because of what was replacing them.

I agree that Merriweather was one of the more talented and physical DBs on the Patriots when he was let go two years ago But Merriweather was released for a host of reasons: his on-field lack of discipline and unnecessary penalties, his purple Camaro, and his off-field behavior with guns and booze and unsavory characters.

All of the shenanigans continued in Chicago, and he couldn't handle being criticized by Lovey Smith. His brief tenure in DC hasn't been any better. The guy was a headache and wasn't worth the distractions he created.

 

[ThatllMoveTheChains!!!]

I agree that Merriweather was one of the more talented and physical DBs on the Patriots when he was let go two years ago But Merriweather was released for a host of reasons: his on-field lack of discipline and unnecessary penalties, his purple Camaro, and his off-field behavior with guns and booze and unsavory characters.

All of the shenanigans continued in Chicago, and he couldn't handle being criticized by Lovey Smith. Hi brief tenure in DC hasn't been any better. The guy was a headache and wasn't worth the distractions he created.

Which is truly unfortunate because if he was even moderately coachable he likely was going to be a great player. It's kinda the inverse of AHern.

 

[Deus Irae]

Sanders couldn't be that QB in the backfield because he couldn't play the position well enough to remain on the field. Sanders was one of those high floor low ceiling players whose range between his floor and ceiling kept shrinking once he was extended. He reportedly came in to camp after the lockout out of condition and he had begun to have some attitude issues with the difference in perception the team was developing about his performance having peaked or regressed. That made him something Bill won't even tolerate in a much more talented player or one with remaining upside, a potential negative leader.

Meriweather was just an uncoachable idiot. Maybe because he saw or was told how the writing on the wall reads here. He determined he would take his own approach to playing the position and trust his own instincts as opposed to doing what the coaches dictate. That will never fly here. Even Ty Law had to change his approach or preference to playing his position and play it Bill's way. And Ty was an elite talent. He had to do what Bill determined was in the best interest of the unit overall schematically and go from there. It worked (he still got to make his plays) so he was OK with it.

You don't stick with something you know isn't working at the expense of seeking out potential better alternatives in the Not For Long league where if you aren't getting better you're getting worse. Hasn't worked out better in hindsight, but the alternative was no more viable long term. As Bill says, you never know what you have until you see it perform in your system. After 3-4 seasons, Sanders and Meriweather weren't cutting it for multiple reasons, and unless you have the stones to move on you will never get it where it needs to be. It's the same risk reward calculation coaches find themselves facing annually which is why most teams turn nearly their entire roster over every 4-5 seasons.

You don't cut Sanders and Meriweather and replace them with the likes of Brown and Ihedigbo. Belichick completely screwed the pooch with that defensive backfield last year. And, yes, sometimes you do stick with something that isn't working at the expense of seeking out potential better alternatives. Sometimes the devil you know is better than the devil you don't.

 

[TruthSeeker]

I agree with Tom Curran. Patricia and Belichick respond to questions about
the Patriots' leaky pass defense using doubletalk.

All you have to do is watch a game from the stands to see wide receivers open everywhere.

It's rather like complaining that water is wet. Yes, it is, but that's the nature of water - or the Patriots coaching staff.

 

[NYCPatsFan]

I agree with Tom Curran. Patricia and Belichick respond to questions about
the Patriots' leaky pass defense using doubletalk.

All you have to do is watch a game from the stands to see wide receivers open everywhere.

Man...that is revealing!

I have not been to a Pats game in three years and so can't comment but hope you were exaggerating a bit.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

You don't cut Sanders and Meriweather and replace them with the likes of Brown and Ihedigbo. Belichick completely screwed the pooch with that defensive backfield last year. And, yes, sometimes you do stick with something that isn't working at the expense of seeking out potential better alternatives. Sometimes the devil you know is better than the devil you don't.

I know, we might have gotten to a superbowl had we not moved on to those lesser talents... Sometimes it's a coin flip, but having flipped it at least then you know.

 

[NYCPatsFan]

You don't cut Sanders and Meriweather and replace them with the likes of Brown and Ihedigbo. Belichick completely screwed the pooch with that defensive backfield last year. And, yes, sometimes you do stick with something that isn't working at the expense of seeking out potential better alternatives. Sometimes the devil you know is better than the devil you don't.

I don't deny that BB did a lacklustre job in the D but puzzled at the way you frame things with none of us knowing what happens in the practices/meetings/team strategy.

What if at that time BB saw something relatively better in Brown and Ihedigbo and decided to take a chance? If the devil you know isn't working and the other devils show more promise, why not roll the dice? After all, BB did give a sixth routh back-up QB some chances a decade back, right?

And do you really think that BB or any coach for the matter have the luxury of waiting around for potential better alternatives? Maybe there are other coaches who might sink a season sticking to players who don't want to change but BB doesn't seem one of them.

 

[Deus Irae]

I know, we might have gotten to a superbowl had we not moved on to those lesser talents... Sometimes it's a coin flip, but having flipped it at least then you know.

That's your response? I thought you were trying to be serious with your posts. My mistake.

 

[Deus Irae]

I don't deny that BB did a lacklustre job in the D but puzzled at the way you frame things with none of us knowing what happens in the practices/meetings/team strategy.

I don't know what's puzzling you here. Just to use an example, and I'm not saying these are accurate numbers, but I'm using high ones to avoid getting sidetracked: when you replace a 100 with a 95, you have downgraded. In the case at hand, anyone arguing Sergio Brown was an upgrade over Meriweather or Sanders should immediately check themselves in for an MRI, because there's something wrong with them.

What if at that time BB saw something relatively better in Brown and Ihedigbo and decided to take a chance? If the devil you know isn't working and the other devils show more promise, why not roll the dice? After all, BB did give a sixth routh back-up QB some chances a decade back, right?

He screwed up. Seeing something is one thing. Seeing something that's not there is another.

And do you really think that BB or any coach for the matter have the luxury of waiting around for potential better alternatives? Maybe there are other coaches who might sink a season sticking to players who don't want to change but BB doesn't seem one of them.

Of course they wait around. It happens all the time, on every team, in every sport. We see it on this team every year. You don't see them cutting every non-All Pro, do you?

 

[NYCPatsFan]

I don't know what's puzzling you here. Just to use an example, and I'm not saying these are accurate numbers, but I'm using high ones to avoid getting sidetracked: when you replace a 100 with a 95, you have downgraded. In the case at hand, anyone arguing Sergio Brown was an upgrade over Meriweather or Sanders should immediately check themselves in for an MRI, because there's something wrong with them.



He screwed up. Seeing something is one thing. Seeing something that's not there is another.



Of course they wait around. It happens all the time, on every team, in every sport. We see it on this team every year. You don't see them cutting every non-All Pro, do you?

Am I right that you have no inside knowledge of the Pats and what you opine is based on what public information?

If yes, what's puzzling me is this: neither you nor I or I guess any of the fans on our site have inside track as to what is going on in the practices, how the coaches view the players and where they fit in the schemes; and yet you make a statement that you don't cut XYZ and replace them with ABC. (note that I am not disagreeing that BB did a less than steller job on the D side for the last few years.)

To borrow your example: you as a fan assign a value of 100 and 95 and so says ergo, 95 < 100 and so it is wrong to substitute. I am pointing out that BB and the coaches probably have a different scale/valuation that could have assigned different ranks in various categories that might have led them to choose one over the other.

So, don't know how you think I shouldn't be puzzled.

Agree on the second post.

Third one - I don't deny that all coaches will be on the lookout for the persons who can contribute more to a team and have to wait if need be with what they currently have. But to extend that argument and claim that poorly performing players (again by the coaches scale/ranking, not the rank you or I give them) should not be cut is a poor one. Let me know if I misunderstood your stance.

Thanks!

 

[TheComeback]

You don't cut Sanders and Meriweather and replace them with the likes of Brown and Ihedigbo. Belichick completely screwed the pooch with that defensive backfield last year. And, yes, sometimes you do stick with something that isn't working at the expense of seeking out potential better alternatives. Sometimes the devil you know is better than the devil you don't.

Cutting Meriweather wasn't a mistake. The guy sucked and he had major attitude problems. This team is better off without him. He got benched in favor of a 3rd round rookie for the Bears, and he can't stay on the field for the Redskins. Our pass defense sucked with him and it sucks without him. I don't see any loss there.

 

[Deus Irae]

Am I right that you have no inside knowledge of the Pats and what you opine is based on what public information?

If yes, what's puzzling me is this: neither you nor I or I guess any of the fans on our site have inside track as to what is going on in the practices, how the coaches view the players and where they fit in the schemes; and yet you make a statement that you don't cut XYZ and replace them with ABC. (note that I am not disagreeing that BB did a less than steller job on the D side for the last few years.)

Practices during training camp are open to the public, there are media reports, and the exhibition games are televised. I do occasionally get other information, but it's only occasionally.

To borrow your example: you as a fan assign a value of 100 and 95 and so says ergo, 95 < 100 and so it is wrong to substitute. I am pointing out that BB and the coaches probably have a different scale/valuation that could have assigned different ranks in various categories that might have led them to choose one over the other.

So, don't know how you think I shouldn't be puzzled.

BB and the coaches were wrong. And it was an easy call that didn't need hindsight to demonstrate the error. They may have seen it differently, but that doesn't magically make them correct, as we've seen time and again. That's why I think you shouldn't be puzzled.

Third one - I don't deny that all coaches will be on the lookout for the persons who can contribute more to a team and have to wait if need be with what they currently have. But to extend that argument and claim that poorly performing players (again by the coaches scale/ranking, not the rank you or I give them) should not be cut is a poor one. Let me know if I misunderstood your stance.

Thanks!

Unless your player has put you in an untenable position or is an absolute bottom of the roster kind of player, you don't cut players without having adequate replacements, or at least a good likelihood of getting those adequate replacements. It's bad in sports, just as it's bad in business, to fire someone if you're not going to be able to replace him/her adequately. It's one thing to cut a player during free agency, when you'll have a lot of players to choose from in order to replace him (even then the success rate is spotty). It's another to do it during/after training camp, where the options are more limited.

 

[TheBostonStraggler]

Cutting Meriweather wasn't a mistake. The guy sucked and he had major attitude problems. This team is better off without him. He got benched in favor of a 3rd round rookie for the Bears, and he can't stay on the field for the Redskins. Our pass defense sucked with him and it sucks without him. I don't see any loss there.

I completely agree. The proof with BM is evident in his post Patriot career. Further, the Patriot way is to rid themselves of problem players like BM. Personally I am in favor of this policy and going with the guy who buys into the Patriot way even if there is a talent drop off. However, it is fair to say that BB and staff fell down on having Plan B in place for BM. Glaringly so with Sanders.

Of course even with that rag tag DB bunch, we made it to the SB. BB gets a lot of slack (deservedly so) for some questionable personnel decisions because of his ability to get wins with non nondescript players.