And you thought our Defense was bad....

[BrickPat]

Sorry, I was wrong they had less than 6 years experience..

How much experience did that Seattle late round CB have again...I forget.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

If Patrick Hill had caught that pass late deep in our Territory...the Jets probably would have scored a go ahead TD...that drop was Huge.

And if <fill in the blank Ne WR> had caught the ball or Gostkowski hadn't developed the yipps.... See, there is more than one way to play that game. Hill didn't catch that ball because that's who he is. Same deal with that WR Baltimore kicked to the curb after the AFCC game last year. I'm a lot more disappointed in the offense and ST at this juncture than I am with a secondary that is what it is. Got to the SB last season with a defense that was less talented overall and worse statistically.

 

[IllegalContact]

How much experience did that Seattle late round CB have again...I forget.

the seatlle starting secondary has 10 total years......2 each for sherman and browner

I think the difference there is that their secondary brings certain physical qualities that you don't see with the pats. makes you think that even if they don't have the technique, they can bring it in some manner to make a big play. they are very rough around the edges, but they are beasts

 

[signbabybrady]

yeah....but the 'sucks as bad or worse' argument doesn't work either

my issue is the appearance of the possibility for improvement and with the secondary, I don't see the bodies that would suggest that this is a bunch that simply needs time

I see no reason why this should be anyones attitude? There is no defending how bad they have been but there is plenty of reason to think it will and should get better as the year goes on. It would be a huge stretch to say it will be good this year but two simple things and this can be a better secondary 1) Health, Chung and Gregory need to get healthy (I know these guys aren't great but they are better then Ebner and the depth when healthy is needed) 2) rookies, no reason to think Dennard and Wilson cant improve as the year goes on.


I know its hard to look past the trends of the last few years and more importantly the trend of the first half of the year but this is a young secondary with 2 of its Vets hurt and there is no reason to give up on the idea of improvement from the unit. Dont get me wrong they likely wont be shutting anyone out anytime soon but they certainly can improve. Really all I need from them is for them to continue to turn the ball over and for them to tighten up a little in the 4th quarter, ok maybe more than a little, but I am not expecting huge improvements but they better improve.

 

[FirstAndGoal]

Yes, Chung and Gregory have been lights out this year....wait until they come back... it will be all rainbows and unicorns.

Wait, is that a rainbow coming out of Wilfork's ass now??????? Wow, can't wait to see the unicorns....

 

[Rob0729]

yeah....just like the cromartie drop on the gronk target in the 4th quarter 3 and out

We can go back and forth all day. If McCourty didn't run the ball out of the end zone before the two minute warning. If Dowling didn't hold Keller on what would have been an incompletion anyway on a third down the Jets' first TD drive. If Greene didn't recover his own fumble on the Jets' 48, the Pats might have score on the next drive.

There are plenty of individual plays for either team that could have changed the outcome of the game. You can probably say this for about 60-70% of the games each weekend.

 

[BrickPat]

the seatlle starting secondary has 10 total years......2 each for sherman and browner

I think the difference there is that their secondary brings certain physical qualities that you don't see with the pats. makes you think that even if they don't have the technique, they can bring it in some manner to make a big play. they are very rough around the edges, but they are beasts

The broader point I (feebly) attempted to make was, does every secondary corps ranked above the Pats have vastly more experience? I don't think it's just a matter of that, skill and/or coaching factors just as heavily into the equation, no?

 

[IllegalContact]

We can go back and forth all day. If McCourty didn't run the ball out of the end zone before the two minute warning. If Dowling didn't hold Keller on what would have been an incompletion anyway on a third down the Jets' first TD drive. If Greene didn't recover his own fumble on the Jets' 48, the Pats might have score on the next drive.

There are plenty of individual plays for either team that could have changed the outcome of the game. You can probably say this for about 60-70% of the games each weekend.

understood........but you're the one who started with single plays or replacement refs as being the difference between 3-4 and 7-0

the pats deserve to be exactly where they are........just because they could be 7-0 does not mean they should be.

that said, they have literally been in the drivers seat in every game. the fact that they are 4-3 is simply because they have not played as well as they could. the possible reasons are between coaching and execution......a combination of the 2.

 

[IllegalContact]

The broader point I (feebly) attempted to make was, does every secondary corps ranked above the Pats have vastly more experience? I don't think it's just a matter of that, skill and/or coaching factors just as heavily into the equation, no?

it would be a completely different mindset if we had a bunch of guys retire over the last 2 years.

they are 6 years into using more picks on the secondary than any other position....there is a consistent changing of the names, but the result is the same.....or worse

there is no reason to believe that this bunch is going anywhere because of where previous picks (meriweather, wheatley, butler) have wound up as well as where soe are heading (chung, dowling)

I do think for the most part that the type of player they are pursuing is not long for this league. none of them have any outstanding physical characteristics....some have some speed, but it has not translated.

maybe they're looking for hte wrong thing.

 

[Rob0729]

understood........but you're the one who started with single plays or replacement refs as being the difference between 3-4 and 7-0

the pats deserve to be exactly where they are........just because they could be 7-0 does not mean they should be.

that said, they have literally been in the drivers seat in every game. the fact that they are 4-3 is simply because they have not played as well as they could. the possible reasons are between coaching and execution......a combination of the 2.

I stated it was a close game that came down to the last play and some questionable refs calls in response to saying that the Pats have only one playoff caliber team and lost. I was stating it was a game that went down to the wire that could have gone either way. It wasn't like the Pats were totally outclassed by the Ravens. The poster implied that the Pats have shown they cannot compete with the playoff caliber teams. That was a game that could have gone either way. I think on a neutral field, the Pats would have won that game but we will never know.

I also never said the Pats could have been 7-0.

 

[IllegalContact]

I stated it was a close game that came down to the last play and some questionable refs calls in response to saying that the Pats have only one playoff caliber team and lost. I was stating it was a game that went down to the wire that could have gone either way. It wasn't like the Pats were totally outclassed by the Ravens. The poster implied that the Pats have shown they cannot compete with the playoff caliber teams. That was a game that could have gone either way. I think on a neutral field, the Pats would have won that game but we will never know.

I also never said the Pats could have been 7-0.

maybe not here, but I do believe you said they could be just as easily 7-0 or 3-4

right now, they are killing themselves........typicaly, you'd say you can't expected that kind of trend continue, but the similarity between the endings is so big, that there appears to be a more substantial underlying problem.

typically you can see one major problem that can be worked on. 2 weeks in a row now the pats have literally failed in every aspect (offense, defense, special teams) late in the game. that's a huge problem.......one that Iwould pin on the coaching, because all the players can't be that bad

 

[MoLewisrocks]

it would be a completely different mindset if we had a bunch of guys retire over the last 2 years.

they are 6 years into using more picks on the secondary than any other position....there is a consistent changing of the names, but the result is the same.....or worse

there is no reason to believe that this bunch is going anywhere because of where previous picks (meriweather, wheatley, butler) have wound up as well as where soe are heading (chung, dowling)

I do think for the most part that the type of player they are pursuing is not long for this league. none of them have any outstanding physical characteristics....some have some speed, but it has not translated.

maybe they're looking for hte wrong thing.

Rodney left in 2009 and he was the key cog in a secondary that was never wildly talented once Law departed but still managed to hold it's own even as the front 7 began to lose their edge to age. If you had Rodney Harrison circa 2003 back there today those kids would look a whole lot better because they wouldn't have to spend so much time and effort trying to think and process information on their own, Rodney would do the bulk of the thinking for them and they could just play. Ask Eugene Wilson... Bill has tried to get smart and he's tried to get tough in the draft and FA and none of them was actually talented or bright enough to play his own positon effectively enough to lead the unit. Maybe if they were more talented they wouldn't need quite as much leadership. But then they'd likely be so expensive as to limit what he was attempting to rebuild elsewhere. The JETS have Revis and Cromartie...and look what that's gotten them. Want to trade places?

 

[IllegalContact]

Rodney left in 2009 and he was the key cog in a secondary that was never wildly talented once Law departed but still managed to hold it's own even as the front 7 began to lose their edge to age. If you had Rodney Harrison circa 2003 back there today those kids would look a whole lot better because they wouldn't have to spend so much time and effort trying to think and process information on their own, Rodney would do the bulk of the thinking for them and they could just play. Ask Eugene Wilson... Bill has tried to get smart and he's tried to get tough in the draft and FA and none of them was actually talented or bright enough to play his own positon effectively enough to lead the unit. Maybe if they were more talented they wouldn't need quite as much leadership. But then they'd likely be so expensive as to limit what he was attempting to rebuild elsewhere. The JETS have Revis and Cromartie...and look what that's gotten them. Want to trade places?

I think an effective 3-4 scheme is needed also.......what the pats run now only allows a maximum of 7 in coaverage. having an extra LB makes a huge difference out there

 

[crypto]

Sanchez's second half performance against the New England Patriots defense:

16 comp/20 atts 190 yards 1 TD

That is simply pathetic!

what about the part where the pats held him to zero touchdowns and only six points on his last three drives of the game, one of which i believe started near midfield, one of which started inside our 20, and one of which ended in a game-winning forced fumble

 

[DocHoliday]

We need a Brian Dawkins type guy.

 

[ralmat55]

I think an effective 3-4 scheme is needed also.......what the pats run now only allows a maximum of 7 in coaverage. having an extra LB makes a huge difference out there

Since Ninkovich is usually one of the DEs. Even in a 4-3, there's nothing to stop them from dropping him into coverage.

The fact that they have this kind of flexibility is one reason why it's so maddening to watch them straight rush 4 all the time. What's to stop them from dropping both Ninkovich and Jones leaving the OTs blocking air while Mayo and Spikes or Hightower rush up the middle. Let's see how many opposition interior lines can block Wilfork, Cunningham, Mayo and Hightower without keeping a back in to block or conceding that their QB is going to be hit hard by a large body.

 

[ATippett56]

The lack of padded practices, per the CBA, may be impeding the development of many defenses including ours..

That does not explain the improvement in the New England Patriots rush defense.

 

[PatsFan2]

I think an effective 3-4 scheme is needed also.......what the pats run now only allows a maximum of 7 in coaverage. having an extra LB makes a huge difference out there

And which LB is great in coverage again? i would rather the Big Nickel.

 

[Kontradiction]

And which LB is great in coverage again? i would rather the Big Nickel.

Mayo and Hightower are pretty solid.

 

[ATippett56]

what about the part where the pats held him to zero touchdowns and only six points on his last three drives of the game, one of which i believe started near midfield, one of which started inside our 20, and one of which ended in a game-winning forced fumble

How about the New England Patriots defense doing their job in the fourth quarter and not allowing the opposition back in the game? I guess you missed the fourth quarter of the New England Patriots - Seattle Seahawks game?