Tom Brady the Least of Patriots 4th Quarter Problems

[PatsFans.com Article]

Tom Brady the Least of Patriots 4th Quarter Problems
By: Ian Logue

There's no question that the Patriots have had their share of 4th quarter issues in recent weeks, but it's tough to attribute much of it to Tom Brady....

CLICK HERE TO READ THIS STORY​

 

[Jackson 2]

Tom Brady the Least of Patriots 4th Quarter Problems
By: Ian Logue

There's no question that the Patriots have had their share of 4th quarter issues in recent weeks, but it's tough to attribute much of it to Tom Brady....

CLICK HERE TO READ THIS STORY​

Hey, Ian, you have a hell of a nerve trying to refute the increasingly prevailing idea that Brady has become a choke artist when it counts. Empirical evidence such as yours has no place in this discussion, you hopeless homer.

 

[JoeSixPat]

Hey, Ian, you have a hell of a nerve trying to refute the increasingly prevailing idea that Brady has become a choke artist when it counts. Empirical evidence such as yours has no place in this discussion, you hopeless homer.

Unfortunately, don't the stats tell a different story?

How is Brady's QB rating when going into the 4th quarter with a lead over the last few years?

If the report I heard on the radio this week is true, it's a whopping 15 - 5th worst in the League.

While I recognize this is a team sport, that's still not good.

 

[robbomango]

Unfortunately, don't the stats tell a different story?

How is Brady's QB rating when going into the 4th quarter with a lead over the last few years?

If the report I heard on the radio this week is true, it's a whopping 15 - 5th worst in the League.

While I recognize this is a team sport, that's still not good.

That 15 QBR is only for 7 games since 2009 in which we lost within the final 5 minutes. 3 of which happened in 09 his injury year, it's a rating for 5 minutes of a handful of games we lost.

That's the most heavily skewed stat I've seen in a while to bolster an argument.

 

[Jackson 2]

Unfortunately, don't the stats tell a different story?

How is Brady's QB rating when going into the 4th quarter with a lead over the last few years?

If the report I heard on the radio this week is true, it's a whopping 15 - 5th worst in the League.

While I recognize this is a team sport, that's still not good.

As is often the case, it depends on which set of statistics a person chooses to cite.

 

[Armchair Quarterback]

The fact that the offense has given the team a two score 4th quarter lead in each of the three losses tells me all I need to know on who's to blame for the 4th quarter losses.

 

[ThatllMoveTheChains!!!]

The fact that the offense has given the team a two score 4th quarter lead in each of the three losses tells me all I need to know on who's to blame for the 4th quarter losses.

Are you talking about this season? Is there something I'm missing? This is certainly not true about the Arizona or Baltimore games.

 

[Armchair Quarterback]

Are you talking about this season? Is there something I'm missing? This is certainly not true about the Arizona or Baltimore games.

It certainly is.

An 11 point 4th quarter lead vs Arizona (20-9 w/ 14 minutes to go).

A 9 point 4th quarter lead vs Baltimore (30-21 w/ 14:10 to go).

A 13 point 4th quarter lead vs Seattle (23-10 w/ 9:21 to go).

 

[ahmed]

it's the play calling. I have no clue why they seem to forget how to be even mildly aggressive with play calling in the 4th with a lead. You would think we have an awesome defense.

 

[pherein]

Its like wolves eating their wounded for lack of food in hard times, and killing the old leader. They eventually all starve to death because the leadership is gone.

3-3 and some fans just turn on the simple conclusion that the QB is the cause. When in fact its a complicated problem of defensive secondary problems, play calling, time management, dropped balls, penalties, and WR/TE. Their is a lot of things to consider, least of all Brady.

Id like to see a thread on that instead of just Brady.

One of the big discussions early in the year is how the Pats don't need a running game. Now its because the running game didn't perform in seattle the offense became one dimensional , but you were one dimensional before.

Fans are just angry, and I don't think that is understandable this time because their is so much football left.

If Brady walked off this team, you might not see a playoff for awhile, and starving to death for another. I just don't see Brady as the problem this season.

I am really more of the mind, as others, that its a team problem, and not a big one like in NO. One that can and is being fixed. But permanent and unchangeable problems, like the DS, just have to be accepted and coaches need to not put them in that situation knowing they can not handle it.

sorry to intrude on this discussion, just wanted to say that.

 

[buile]

If Brady walked off this team, you might not see a playoff for awhile, and starving to death for another.

Wow, wouldn't that be a hard way to give spoiled fans some perspective...

Looking ahead to when Brady retires, what are our chances of having another QB as good as him? What are some franchises that've had Hall-of-Famer QBs in a row?

 

[ivanvamp]

It certainly is.

An 11 point 4th quarter lead vs Arizona (20-9 w/ 14 minutes to go).

A 9 point 4th quarter lead vs Baltimore (30-21 w/ 14:10 to go).

A 13 point 4th quarter lead vs Seattle (23-10 w/ 9:21 to go).

Um....the Patriots lost to Arizona 20-18. How could they have held a 20-9 lead if they only ended up scoring 18? The only lead the Pats had that entire game was 9-6 when they got a FG to open up the 3rd quarter. It was Arizona that led 20-9, and the Pats came back, scoring a TD with 2:06 left to make it 20-18, and couldn't convert the 2-point conversion, unfortunately. They then got the ball back on the fumble, and Gostkowski missed the game-winning FG at the end.

 

[Brady'sButtBoy]

"In New England's three losses (2012), Brady is 6-for-17 for 65 yards in the fourth quarter and the score within seven points."

That caught my eye. And for the folks here who say the sampling is skewed in his disfavor, they ought to read the whole article in question by Lunblad. He compares present TB with pre-2008 SB TB, the results are concerning; to me anyway. It's hard to read this piece and say nothing has changed.

Have Tom Brady and the New England Patriots lost their fourth-quarter magic? - ESPN Boston

 

[Rob0729]

Brady isn't the biggest problem, but he isn't the Pats' lest problem when it comes to 4th quarter meltdowns. Brady has made his fair share of bad throws and decisions in the fourth.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Its like wolves eating their wounded for lack of food in hard times, and killing the old leader. They eventually all starve to death because the leadership is gone.

3-3 and some fans just turn on the simple conclusion that the QB is the cause. When in fact its a complicated problem of defensive secondary problems, play calling, time management, dropped balls, penalties, and WR/TE. Their is a lot of things to consider, least of all Brady.

Id like to see a thread on that instead of just Brady.

One of the big discussions early in the year is how the Pats don't need a running game. Now its because the running game didn't perform in seattle the offense became one dimensional , but you were one dimensional before.

Fans are just angry, and I don't think that is understandable this time because their is so much football left.

If Brady walked off this team, you might not see a playoff for awhile, and starving to death for another. I just don't see Brady as the problem this season.

I am really more of the mind, as others, that its a team problem, and not a big one like in NO. One that can and is being fixed. But permanent and unchangeable problems, like the DS, just have to be accepted and coaches need to not put them in that situation knowing they can not handle it.

sorry to intrude on this discussion, just wanted to say that.

There's the old insightful pherein we all came to know and appreciate. If I were board savvy enough to bother with a signature, that would be it. The essence of this board these days in a nutshell.

Reiss has a good piece up I was going to devote it's own thread to but I think it makes sense to include it here. This is a game plan team. It can be, like it's HC, stubborn to a fault when it comes to having the courage of it's convictions. Fans shriek when a plan seems to stall momentarily and the idiot OC or the QB appear unable or unwilling to immediately adjust on the fly. There is a reason they are reluctant to. They have practiced all week to do something based on their assessment of what an opponent is seemingly weaker at defending against. Last week Josh determined prior to Wednesday that Seattle's tendancy to play 7 or 8 in the box would make running the ball a non starter. So he focused the game plan on passing the ball.

Now as Mike notes, the plan could have worked but for a couple of gaffs that resulted in landing in position to need to move the ball on the ground. Trouble is when the need arose the team was simply not prepared to rise to that challenge. And based on what SF was able to accomplish in the absence of a viable passing game, perhaps the determination that Seattle was impossible to run on was incorrect on it's face. More veteran units or those conditioned for adaptability might have been able to shift gears. This one isn't. Aside from Woodhead who has been in the system for 3 years, we are fielding essentially a rookie RB tandem. Running behind an OL that has turned over all but 2 positions in the last off season. Even the passing game has it's limitations between the relative newness of the TE component which is also battling injury to it's most system experienced duo. And the integration of a viable outside WR is a work in progress. All of those circumstances limit the ability of the offense to reach back and reconfigure on the fly. Which in a way is what they do when they go no huddle.

And basically it's the same deal on defense...squared.

Execution matters, but it's never going to be perfect. Wasn't even back in the day. But the relative youth and inexperience of vast chunks of this particular version of the NEP makes it a team dependent on the best possible coaching and game planning. Last season that somehow supported it all the way to the 20th and final week of the season. May yet do that again this season, but it hasn't looked as dialed in out of the gate as it's going to need to be. And these recent editions are challenged to overcome their own mis steps, and ill equipped to have to overcome coaching gaffs as well. And why that is the case also traces back not to the QB but to the guy who has final say in all football ops. A guy who spent an inordinate amount of time, effort and money amassing TE depth this offseason and essentially struck out not only there but elsewhere in securing viable experienced alternative depth at a number of positions on both sides of the ball.

Making Brady clearly the least of the Patriots 4th quarter or any quarter for that matter problems.

This should serve as a lesson to those who harp on the need to get younger, faster, etc. Be careful what you wish for because it's seldom the panacea you assume. Which is probably why BB fought you for the longest time. He's finally embraced your call andsix weeks in you're going to have to live with the process. As is he.

Bill Belichick's New England Patriots are happy to live and die with their game-plan offense - ESPN Boston

 

[everlong]

This is the over-reaction flavor of the week analysis.

<Insert QB Name Here> didn't play well and his team lost.

The last few weeks Aaron Rodgers was taking hits but they blew out the Texans so he's a god again. Peyton Manning was coming under first but they beat up the pathetic Chargers in the second half so he's the old Peyton. Brady will likely hang 30+ on the Jets and this story will die on the vine.

Its a QB driven league and Brady is a ridiculous 127-38 and I'd bet he didn't play well in all of those 38 losses. The biggest difference is the defense back prior to 09 would hold a 9 (Ravens) point or 13 (Hawks) point lead and we wouldn't be having this discussion. With the exception of Rodgers you insert any other QB and this team is lucky to sniff 8-8. Brady also gets less of these opportunities since when he's on they simply roll. Everybody is on the Eli bandwagon right now. He'll suck for an entire game and then do well against the prevent defense. I'm not saying he's not a top ten QB but you switch defenses last year and that game is a slaughter.

For those of us who lived through guys like Hugh Millen just wait. It's not always going to be like it's been the last (nearly) twenty years with Tom and Drew. Eventually we'll be the team with a Sanchez or a Quinn and then people will realize what it's like to watch a bag of crap week after week.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

This is the over-reaction flavor of the week analysis.

<Insert QB Name Here> didn't play well and his team lost.

The last few weeks Aaron Rodgers was taking hits but they blew out the Texans so he's a god again. Peyton Manning was coming under first but they beat up the pathetic Chargers in the second half so he's the old Peyton. Brady will likely hang 30+ on the Jets and this story will die on the vine.

Its a QB driven league and Brady is a ridiculous 127-38 and I'd bet he didn't play well in all of those 38 losses. The biggest difference is the defense back prior to 09 would hold a 9 (Ravens) point or 13 (Hawks) point lead and we wouldn't be having this discussion. With the exception of Rodgers you insert any other QB and this team is lucky to sniff 8-8. Brady also gets less of these opportunities since when he's on they simply roll. Everybody is on the Eli bandwagon right now. He'll suck for an entire game and then do well against the prevent defense. I'm not saying he's not a top ten QB but you switch defenses last year and that game is a slaughter.

For those of us who lived through guys like Hugh Millen just wait. It's not always going to be like it's been the last (nearly) twenty years with Tom and Drew. Eventually we'll be the team with a Sanchez or a Quinn and then people will realize what it's like to watch a bag of crap week after week.

It's largely media driven. You know, that collection of elitist kneejerks who live to paint fans as ill informed and irrational. Two games have essentially made Eli a cause celeb among mediots. Had to love how out of the gate again this season he was giving his old out of touch, throwback field gereral turned genius coach angina. Eli has historically engineered half of his teams come from behind wins...at least in the regular season. Rodgers looked like crap until this week, ditto Brees. Peyton couldn't throw a runner out at first from a mound. But somehow they got the benefit of the doubt, built in or otherwise. I swear on some level where Tom is concerned this all traces back to being who Tom is, the guy multiple teams passed on multiple times who shocked everyone on his road to Canton. They keep waiting for Cinderella to lose her shoe and turn back into the the scruffy little cleaning lady her step mother made her out to be. Once that happens they can get back to mocking the system genius whose genius status never sat too well with them, either.

 

[goheels22002]

This is a game plan team. It can be, like it's HC, stubborn to a fault when it comes to having the courage of it's convictions. Fans shriek when a plan seems to stall momentarily and the idiot OC or the QB appear unable or unwilling to immediately adjust on the fly. There is a reason they are reluctant to. They have practiced all week to do something based on their assessment of what an opponent is seemingly weaker at defending against. Last week Josh determined prior to Wednesday that Seattle's tendancy to play 7 or 8 in the box would make running the ball a non starter. So he focused the game plan on passing the ball.

Now as Mike notes, the plan could have worked but for a couple of gaffs that resulted in landing in position to need to move the ball on the ground. Trouble is when the need arose the team was simply not prepared to rise to that challenge. And based on what SF was able to accomplish in the absence of a viable passing game, perhaps the determination that Seattle was impossible to run on was incorrect on it's face. More veteran units or those conditioned for adaptability might have been able to shift gears. This one isn't. Aside from Woodhead who has been in the system for 3 years, we are fielding essentially a rookie RB tandem. Running behind an OL that has turned over all but 2 positions in the last off season. Even the passing game has it's limitations between the relative newness of the TE component which is also battling injury to it's most system experienced duo. And the integration of a viable outside WR is a work in progress. Which in a way is what they do when they go no huddle.

And basically it's the same deal on defense...squared.

Bill Belichick's New England Patriots are happy to live and die with their game-plan offense - ESPN Boston

So how long do we wait for this offense to be able "to reach back and reconfigure on the fly?" Week 8? Week 12? Next year?

Two weeks ago everybody was gushing over the Bedard story about the insane hurry up offense and how Brady could engineer drives using one-word play calls. This week the Patriots are too young, too inexperienced, and still trying to integrate their WR to "reconfigure on the fly?" Which is it?

If the Patriots blow the Jets out with lots of hurry up, we'll be spewing about how the team has these young fast smart guys who can run the Oregon offense at the NFL level.

Sorry, but the inability to sustain game winning drives in the 4th quarter is killing this 3-3 team. The play calling in the three 4th quarter losses has been atrocious at the same time the DBs are getting strafed for big gains and committing penalties. Frankly this team could easily be 2-4 if the Broncos had played up to their potential (now, that's a team in a genuine transition.)

This inability to sustain drives late in the game is on the coaching staff which is calling plays in the 4th quarter in a timid fashion instead of going for the jugular. Last week on the penultimate drive before the game winning TD it was Ridley right, Ridley left and a two-yard incompletion to Branch. No play action, no Gronk over the middle (he was relegated to being a blocker), no stacked receivers and TEs to challenge the Seattle defenders who were equally tired at the end of that game.

McDaniels, Brady and Belichick need to think about how to get back to putting their foot on the neck of the team they are beating and stop screwing around with letting the defense dictate their play calling. You are right about the run against the Nickel and pass against the eight in the box. That basically gives the defense the keys to the car.

The Patriots need to get aggressive in the 2nd half and more unpredictable. Brady has a big role in that.

 

[Armchair Quarterback]

Um....the Patriots lost to Arizona 20-18. How could they have held a 20-9 lead if they only ended up scoring 18? The only lead the Pats had that entire game was 9-6 when they got a FG to open up the 3rd quarter. It was Arizona that led 20-9, and the Pats came back, scoring a TD with 2:06 left to make it 20-18, and couldn't convert the 2-point conversion, unfortunately. They then got the ball back on the fumble, and Gostkowski missed the game-winning FG at the end.

You're right. I was obviously looking at the wrong column in the box score.

Brady and the offense did outscore Arizona in the fourth (9-7) and put them in position to win with a relatively easy 42 yard field goal that Gostkowski shanked.

 

[ThatllMoveTheChains!!!]

It certainly is.

An 11 point 4th quarter lead vs Arizona (20-9 w/ 14 minutes to go).

A 9 point 4th quarter lead vs Baltimore (30-21 w/ 14:10 to go).

A 13 point 4th quarter lead vs Seattle (23-10 w/ 9:21 to go).

Well that teaches me to add a game after glancing at the boxscores to double check the one I was "sure" about... okay it probably won't.

Its like wolves eating their wounded for lack of food in hard times, and killing the old leader. They eventually all starve to death because the leadership is gone.

3-3 and some fans just turn on the simple conclusion that the QB is the cause. When in fact its a complicated problem of defensive secondary problems, play calling, time management, dropped balls, penalties, and WR/TE. Their is a lot of things to consider, least of all Brady.

Id like to see a thread on that instead of just Brady.

One of the big discussions early in the year is how the Pats don't need a running game. Now its because the running game didn't perform in seattle the offense became one dimensional , but you were one dimensional before.

Fans are just angry, and I don't think that is understandable this time because their is so much football left.

If Brady walked off this team, you might not see a playoff for awhile, and starving to death for another. I just don't see Brady as the problem this season.

I am really more of the mind, as others, that its a team problem, and not a big one like in NO. One that can and is being fixed. But permanent and unchangeable problems, like the DS, just have to be accepted and coaches need to not put them in that situation knowing they can not handle it.

sorry to intrude on this discussion, just wanted to say that.

I think there have been plenty of threads discussing the other woes the Patriots have had, but they don't seem to lead to the vile filled run ons like the Brady ones.

If BB leaves at the same time as TB a drought is probable, but I'd be shocked if that happens with BB at the helm. Times will likely not be as good as current, but I'd expect them to field a competitive team year in and out.

Wow, wouldn't that be a hard way to give spoiled fans some perspective...

Looking ahead to when Brady retires, what are our chances of having another QB as good as him? What are some franchises that've had Hall-of-Famer QBs in a row?

0% we should enjoy these times, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't look into if TB is part of the offense's 4th Qtr struggles.