NFL admits to screwing Hobbs

[PatsSox363804]

http://www.profootballtalk.com/

In response to anitem in our Conference Championship Ten-Packregarding a key pass interference call on Patriots cornerback Ellis Hobbs thatallowed the Colts to complete an 18-point comeback and knot the game at 21, amember of PFT Planet has alerted us to a January 25, 2007 "Q&A" onJaguars.com in which Vic Ketchman writes that theNFL has acknowledged that a bad call was made.

Writes Ketchman,in response to a question that chastised him for suggesting that face-guardingis still forbidden:

"Face-guardingwas discontinued several years ago and I completely missed it. I talked toDean Blandino in the league office and he confirmed what you're saying. Blandino, by the way, was in the replay booth at the Patriots-Colts game. Ellis Hobbs should not have been flagged for pass-interference. He didn'tmake contact with the receiver and in no way did Hobbs impede Reggie Wayne'sability to catch the pass. Blandino confirmed that the incorrect call wasmade. It advanced the ball from the Patriots' 19-yard line to the one-yardline and was the big play in a touchdown drive that led to a two-pointconversion and a tie game at 21-21. Referee Bill Carollo made no referenceto face-guarding in his explanation, but CBS analyst Phil Simms did. Apparently, he, too, doesn't know the rule no longer exists. The next time youhear a TV analyst say, 'he wasn?t playing the ball,' think of the Hobbs play,then turn down the sound."

Make no mistakeabout it, it was a key call. And, to their credit, we haven't heard apublic peep from the "no class" Pats about the play.

Gee, what wouldNapolian have done if that phantom flag had been thrown on a member of theColts' defense?"


Bittersweet, to say the least.

 

[JoeSixPat]

Bittersweet, to say the least.

Yup - this team and its fans generally don't whine and moan like other team owners and fans.

We know that bad calls are part of the game. They do happen. We've benefitted from some and been hurt, and sometimes they happen at the worst times.

As fans we're also smart enough to know that we need to overcome bad calls and that we had a chance to do exactly that, but we fell short.

It's the no whining/no excuses mentality of this team and the fans that sets us apart. That makes me feel pretty good even if we did get screwed on a call.

 

[DarrylS]

Maybe BB or SP can get put on the competition committee... too bad they blew this call.. but I expect to hear little crying out of Foxboro.

 

[WestPat]

Maybe BB or SP can get put on the competition committee... too bad they blew this call.. but I expect to hear little crying out of Foxboro.

I expect no crying or whining from the Pats, they leave that rubbish to Polian and the Colts.
The fans should take the same clue from the organization, no crying or whining, bad calls happens , and teams should overcome them .

 

[Fanfrom1960]

http://www.profootballtalk.com/

In response to anitem in our Conference Championship Ten-Packregarding a key pass interference call on Patriots cornerback Ellis Hobbs thatallowed the Colts to complete an 18-point comeback and knot the game at 21, amember of PFT Planet has alerted us to a January 25, 2007 "Q&A" onJaguars.com in which Vic Ketchman writes that theNFL has acknowledged that a bad call was made.

Writes Ketchman,in response to a question that chastised him for suggesting that face-guardingis still forbidden:

"Face-guardingwas discontinued several years ago and I completely missed it. I talked toDean Blandino in the league office and he confirmed what you're saying. Blandino, by the way, was in the replay booth at the Patriots-Colts game. Ellis Hobbs should not have been flagged for pass-interference. He didn'tmake contact with the receiver and in no way did Hobbs impede Reggie Wayne'sability to catch the pass. Blandino confirmed that the incorrect call wasmade. It advanced the ball from the Patriots' 19-yard line to the one-yardline and was the big play in a touchdown drive that led to a two-pointconversion and a tie game at 21-21. Referee Bill Carollo made no referenceto face-guarding in his explanation, but CBS analyst Phil Simms did. Apparently, he, too, doesn't know the rule no longer exists. The next time youhear a TV analyst say, 'he wasn?t playing the ball,' think of the Hobbs play,then turn down the sound."

Make no mistakeabout it, it was a key call. And, to their credit, we haven't heard apublic peep from the "no class" Pats about the play.

So, it's all BS about the defender having to turn around and make a play on the ball. In other words, he can keep his back completely to the ball and it should be no call. Seemed pretty stupid to me that it ever was a rule. I guess nowadays you have to blow out a team to keep it "referee proof".

 

[indycolts685]

http://www.profootballtalk.com/

In response to anitem in our Conference Championship Ten-Packregarding a key pass interference call on Patriots cornerback Ellis Hobbs thatallowed the Colts to complete an 18-point comeback and knot the game at 21, amember of PFT Planet has alerted us to a January 25, 2007 "Q&A" onJaguars.com in which Vic Ketchman writes that theNFL has acknowledged that a bad call was made.

Writes Ketchman,in response to a question that chastised him for suggesting that face-guardingis still forbidden:

"Face-guardingwas discontinued several years ago and I completely missed it. I talked toDean Blandino in the league office and he confirmed what you're saying. Blandino, by the way, was in the replay booth at the Patriots-Colts game. Ellis Hobbs should not have been flagged for pass-interference. He didn'tmake contact with the receiver and in no way did Hobbs impede Reggie Wayne'sability to catch the pass. Blandino confirmed that the incorrect call wasmade. It advanced the ball from the Patriots' 19-yard line to the one-yardline and was the big play in a touchdown drive that led to a two-pointconversion and a tie game at 21-21. Referee Bill Carollo made no referenceto face-guarding in his explanation, but CBS analyst Phil Simms did. Apparently, he, too, doesn't know the rule no longer exists. The next time youhear a TV analyst say, 'he wasn?t playing the ball,' think of the Hobbs play,then turn down the sound."

Make no mistakeabout it, it was a key call. And, to their credit, we haven't heard apublic peep from the "no class" Pats about the play.

Gee, what wouldNapolian have done if that phantom flag had been thrown on a member of theColts' defense?"


Bittersweet, to say the least.

while I agree the calls were bad, the Hobbs play happened on a 2nd and 7 so there was still a chance the Colts could have scored, as far as the Caldwell play, I have no argument there, i was setting right there in that corner endzone and was thinking that could have been called PI and I went home and watched my tivo and yes it was a very bad no call..

 

[PrairiePat]

Yup - this team and its fans generally don't whine and moan like other team owners and fans.

Much as I'd love to agree, I think that's only half right - the TEAM doesn't whine too much about bad calls, but the fans are another story.

C'mon, there were about 100 threads after last year's Denver game whining about the officiating, and another 50 after the SuperBowl (which we weren't even involved in). We have a current thread here where someone tracked down an official from a game -30- years ago and pissed on his lawn , and several others talking about how the 2 PI calls/non-calls screwed us over in the Indy game.

Let's not put ourselves on a pedestal here, bad calls will always draw the ire of die-hard fans like the group on this board, that's just human nature.

 

[HEY BRO! WHAT UP?]

They screwed Caldwell too! Had the refs thrown a flag, the ball would have been placed at the one yard line and Dillon would have walked in for a touchdown. Game over.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

So, in other words, twice the refs tried to hand the game to the Colts (see 2005 Colts v. Steelers). It's just that this time the Colts were actually able to take the gift they were handed. [No, I'm not blaming them entirely for the loss, just saying that getting those calls right could have been enough to prevent the Colts from winning.]

I guess PATSNUTme's avatar really does exist. :enranged:

If this isn't enough ammo for rule changes, I don't know what will be.

 

[Isaac]

So, it's all BS about the defender having to turn around and make a play on the ball. In other words, he can keep his back completely to the ball and it should be no call. Seemed pretty stupid to me that it ever was a rule. I guess nowadays you have to blow out a team to keep it "referee proof".

Not exactly, if a defender isn't playing the ball then any contact will result in a PI flag. If he is playing the ball, then contact will be judged incidental unless it's something obvious. Hobbs played that poorly, you really are supposed to turn for the ball.

 

[vyrago]

Not exactly, if a defender isn't playing the ball then any contact will result in a PI flag. If he is playing the ball, then contact will be judged incidental unless it's something obvious. Hobbs played that poorly, you really are supposed to turn for the ball.

But there was NO contact, unless you're counting the ball hitting Hobbs in the back of the head as contact.

 

[PatsFaninAZ]

Not exactly, if a defender isn't playing the ball then any contact will result in a PI flag. If he is playing the ball, then contact will be judged incidental unless it's something obvious. Hobbs played that poorly, you really are supposed to turn for the ball.

Not for nothing, but that's simply not even close to the rule. Contact by a player not playing the ball remains incidental unless it "restricts the receiver's opportunity to make a catch."

It's true that when one player is playing the ball and the other is not, the defender loses the ordinary presumption that contact is incidental. When people talk about "faceguarding," that is generally what it means in the NFL. Faceguarding itself is not a penalty. But if you faceguard, you lose the presumption of inadvertent contact. That's all it means though -- it doesn't mean any contact is a penalty. It just means there is no presumption. The ref has to call it 50/50 whether the contact was incidental.

Bottom line, on the Hobbs play:

1) There had to be contact.

2) The contact (not the "faceguarding") had to the cause of the receiver's inability to catch the ball. (On this second issue, you have to assume that receivers can make very difficult catches.)

Seems pretty clear to everyone that saw a replay, including the league, that 1 did not exist. If there was some contact, I think no. 2 is close.

 

[Fanfrom1960]

Not for nothing, but that's simply not even close to the rule. Contact by a player not playing the ball remains incidental unless it "restricts the receiver's opportunity to make a catch."

It's true that when one player is playing the ball and the other is not, the defender loses the ordinary presumption that contact is incidental. When people talk about "faceguarding," that is generally what it means in the NFL. Faceguarding itself is not a penalty. But if you faceguard, you lose the presumption of inadvertent contact. That's all it means though -- it doesn't mean any contact is a penalty. It just means there is no presumption. The ref has to call it 50/50 whether the contact was incidental.

Bottom line, on the Hobbs play:

1) There had to be contact.

2) The contact (not the "faceguarding") had to the cause of the receiver's inability to catch the ball. (On this second issue, you have to assume that receivers can make very difficult catches.)

Seems pretty clear to everyone that saw a replay, including the league, that 1 did not exist. If there was some contact, I think no. 2 is close.

It seems like the bigger picture is that the rules have become so bizarre, petty and arcane that ticky tack calls are being made all the time and will continue. Is this Polian's legacy, or what? Let'em f'in play. Bring back Night Train Lane.

Edit, this is one place where I like the NBA better. In huge games like this, you have to practically take a guy's head off under the basket to get a call, especially late in games. And, David Stern is a great commish and the NFL needs someone with his gumption.

 

[indycolts685]

They screwed Caldwell too! Had the refs thrown a flag, the ball would have been placed at the one yard line and Dillon would have walked in for a touchdown. Game over.

Game would have been far from over, there was 7:42 left in the game and the score would have been 35-28 if the pats get a td, while I agree it was a bad no call the game was far from over they way the colts were moving the ball, what surprises me most is Caldwell didn't get upset at all, he didn't even argue the call

 

[Dragda]

while I agree the calls were bad, the Hobbs play happened on a 2nd and 7 so there was still a chance the Colts could have scored, as far as the Caldwell play, I have no argument there, i was setting right there in that corner endzone and was thinking that could have been called PI and I went home and watched my tivo and yes it was a very bad no call..

Colts players are allowed to tackle and hump the legs of receivers as long as they are playing the Pats. But it is illegal for a Pats DB to look at a Colts player if he is in the endzone. It makes perfect sense to me

Bottom line is that if you can't stop the run in a playoff game when you really need to, you won't win. The Colts were able to stop the run. We weren't. No excuses, the Colts beat us. Like others have said, bad calls happen.

 

[psychoPat]

Until now i've been able to handle the loss pretty well ... starting at the moment
of the game-ending interception.

This, though, is devastating.
Especially coming after the zebra fiasco in Denver to end last season.

Because the officiating in the playoffs up until Sunday had been minimalist ...
and therefore good ...
i swallowed my ire at the this call, and other non-calls ...
and bought the familiar old "faceguarding" story.

So now i have to think that the league didn't so much clean up its officiating act
... as, mask its intent and activities better
- to avoid another firestorm of criticism and contempt like after the 2006 playoffs.

Y'all are right, that it is some compensation to know that the team we love doesn't stoop
to Polian-esque *****ing and moaning ...
but just swallows our medicine.

IndyColts685, maybe that is why Caldwell played it straight.

But i am beginning to wonder
how much of "directed outcomes"
my passion for pro football can continue to stomach.

 

[Dragda]

Edit, this is one place where I like the NBA better. In huge games like this, you have to practically take a guy's head off under the basket to get a call, especially late in games. And, David Stern is a great commish and the NFL needs someone with his gumption.

I can't agree with this at all. I stopped watching the NBA because of the officiating. They don't call the game the same for all players. I saw superstars get calls all the time with no contact while the marginal player gets hacked an no-call. Traveling calls are another issue. In the NCAA everyone gets called for traveling. Not so in the NBA.

I do agree with your point that once in the playoffs, it had better be a serious/obvious infraction the warrant a flag. We aren't seeing this at all times. We enjoyed this in SB36, however.

 

[shmessy]

Remember the Chicago game when the Bears CB faceguarded Chad Jackson and there was no call - because there was no contact.

That was a more flagrant face guard and goes to show that face guarding without contact is no penalty.

 

[feelthepain]

Well it's not like the Pats haven't had their share of bad calls go their way in three SB winning post seasons!

 

[Fixit]

Well it's not like the Pats haven't had their share of bad calls go their way in three SB winning post seasons!

No more than the Dolphins have had in their three SB winni---

Wait.

Never mind.