Game thoughts - No So Jacked & Pumped Edition

[Rob0729]

Here we go:

1. I think a large share of the loss goes on Brady. He was just off from the last drive in the first half on. Poor clock management on that drive (I blame him for not taking the time out which made Belichick have to run down the field to make), some poor decisions, some poor throws, seemed rattled at times, etc. It wasn't all on him, but he deserves a good piece of the blame pie.
2. Chandler Jones needs to work on being more consistent (lobbying more for holding calls would help), but he is showing signs of being an elite DE. He is stout vs. the run and can rush the passer. The most amazing thing about his five sacks of the season, three of them have been strip sacks.
3. Glad to see Arrington finally benched. Everyone was blaming McCourty this season, but Arrington was clearly the weakest link in the secondary. Obviously, the secondary has some issues (to put it mildly), but I think Dennard can be much better with some more experience. He did show flashes yesterday. And the Edwards' TD there was not much more he could have done. Even elite CBs get burnt on plays with coverage like that. Granted he did get burnt several other times.
4. I am concerned a bit about the youth and inexperience on this team. I think a reason the Pats don't have a killer instinct at the end of games is in part because they decided to go so young. Wilfork can only do so much leadership on defense. Younger guys on offense seem to struggle down the end.
5. Other than the end of the game, I was impressed by the o-line. They kept Brady pretty clean considering this is a defense known to get to the QB. Again, the end of the game goes to the last bullet point.
6. Was it just me or did Slater injure himself celebrating a special team's stop? Looks like one of his teammates may have taken out his ankle to "congratulate" him. If that is the case and he is out for a significant time, that has to go down as one of the stupidest injuries since.... well, Edelman who may have broken his hand spiking the football during a TD celebration.
7. Troy Brown may be right. Spikes just may be the best run stuffing LB in the league.
8. I still think this team is a legitimate Super Bowl contender and other than the secondary are more mental and correctable errors. I also think the secondary can be fixed over time. Don't forget it was Dennard second game in the NFL and thrust into the starting role without preparation for it (taking back up reps at nickel and dime in practice). Wilson is also learning on the job. McCourty isn't nearly as bad as people make him out to be. Chung is inconsistent, but has the capability of being good.

 

[IllegalContact]

regarding number 3, my fear is for the rookie DB's and that they are going to follow the same path as all the other recent DB's in that their first year is going to be their best year given that the patricia/boyer/flores combo is going to destroy them.

 

[JackBauer]

It seemed to me on the deep ball McCourty gave up that he was in terrific position -- just couldn't make the play.

More often than not, seems to be the story of his career so far beyond his rookie season.

 

[SeymourTrophies]

Ultimately, losing in Seattle is not the end of the world. They have a good to great defense, and that stadium is tough for everyone. Brady made some errors I have never seen him make before. If Brady's going to cost us a game (he normally has two bad games a year), an away game to an out of conference team is the one to cost us. Big picture, this isn't the end of the world because of all of the tiebreaker implications. The AFC is wide open and the teams we thought were unbeatable (Texans, 49ers, Ravens) all suffered big losses either in the standings or in key players. Just make it to the playoffs and see what happens.

It just sucks that our front seven (six yesterday) is as solid as it is because our secondary is going the other way dramatically. I'm going to harp on the James Sanders cut internally for a while because a guy, even a mediocre guy, who knows how things are supposed to look and how to play center field would be really useful with all of the inexperience with the personnel. I've seen a lot of guys passing off receivers to the safety only for the safety to be way late to arrive.

 

[TruthSeeker]

Here we go:

1. I think a large share of the loss goes on Brady. He was just off from the last drive in the first half on. Poor clock management on that drive (I blame him for not taking the time out which made Belichick have to run down the field to make), some poor decisions, some poor throws, seemed rattled at times, etc. It wasn't all on him, but he deserves a good piece of the blame pie.
2. Chandler Jones needs to work on being more consistent (lobbying more for holding calls would help), but he is showing signs of being an elite DE. He is stout vs. the run and can rush the passer. The most amazing thing about his five sacks of the season, three of them have been strip sacks.
3. Glad to see Arrington finally benched. Everyone was blaming McCourty this season, but Arrington was clearly the weakest link in the secondary. Obviously, the secondary has some issues (to put it mildly), but I think Dennard can be much better with some more experience. He did show flashes yesterday. And the Edwards' TD there was not much more he could have done. Even elite CBs get burnt on plays with coverage like that. Granted he did get burnt several other times.
4. I am concerned a bit about the youth and inexperience on this team. I think a reason the Pats don't have a killer instinct at the end of games is in part because they decided to go so young. Wilfork can only do so much leadership on defense. Younger guys on offense seem to struggle down the end.
5. Other than the end of the game, I was impressed by the o-line. They kept Brady pretty clean considering this is a defense known to get to the QB. Again, the end of the game goes to the last bullet point.
6. Was it just me or did Slater injure himself celebrating a special team's stop? Looks like one of his teammates may have taken out his ankle to "congratulate" him. If that is the case and he is out for a significant time, that has to go down as one of the stupidest injuries since.... well, Edelman who may have broken his hand spiking the football during a TD celebration.
7. Troy Brown may be right. Spikes just may be the best run stuffing LB in the league.
8. I still think this team is a legitimate Super Bowl contender and other than the secondary are more mental and correctable errors. I also think the secondary can be fixed over time. Don't forget it was Dennard second game in the NFL and thrust into the starting role without preparation for it (taking back up reps at nickel and dime in practice). Wilson is also learning on the job. McCourty isn't nearly as bad as people make him out to be. Chung is inconsistent, but has the capability of being good.

Rob,

I agree with a lot of your comments, and respect your views. I just wish I could be as upbeat as you. BUT, the first few words of your last comments "I still think this team is a legitimate Super Bowl contender", I couldn't disagree with you more. This team is far from a SB contender. They can not win games UNLESS they are way ahead, and even then they have to hold on for dear life. They CAN NOT win close games. The games they won were basically blow outs, by a combined average score of 39-21. The games they lost were a combined average score of 24-25. To be a SB contender, you HAVE to win AT LEAST 1 of those 3 games. I hate to say it, but this defense is terrible, though mostly the secondary. BUT, when was the last time this D came up with a sack when they needed it, especially late in the game when teams were driving for the win ? Tom Brady, maybe the greatest of all time, but he is no longer clutch. Yeah it sucked to give up the winning points late in the game, but they still had time to drive down field for the winning field goal, and they didn't get it done. Combined with not getting points at the end of the first half, and throwing an INT in the end zone, unacceptable. When is the last time the Pats came back to win a CLOSE game ?

The Pats schedule is going to be tough, with games against the rest of the NFC West (already 0-2 against them), the AFC East will be no cake walk, the Dolphins and Jets are now playing good football. I'd be thrilled with an AFC East title, and I'm not expecting anything else after (probable first round loss). I hope I'm extremely wrong, and I see some of my quotes come back to haunt me after a Super Bowl win, but I just don't see it.

 

[Rob0729]

Rob,

I agree with a lot of your comments, and respect your views. I just wish I could be as upbeat as you. BUT, the first few words of your last comments "I still think this team is a legitimate Super Bowl contender", I couldn't disagree with you more. This team is far from a SB contender. They can not win games UNLESS they are way ahead, and even then they have to hold on for dear life. They CAN NOT win close games. The games they won were basically blow outs, by a combined average score of 39-21. The games they lost were a combined average score of 24-25. To be a SB contender, you HAVE to win AT LEAST 1 of those 3 games. I hate to say it, but this defense is terrible, though mostly the secondary. BUT, when was the last time this D came up with a sack when they needed it, especially last in the game when teams were driving for the win ? Tom Brady, maybe the greatest of all time, but he is no longer clutch. Yeah it sucked to give up the winning points late in the game, but they still had time to drive down field for the winning field goal, and they didn't get it done. Combined with not getting points at the end of the first half, and throwing an INT in the end zone, unacceptable. When is the last time the Pats came back to win a CLOSE game ?

The Pats schedule is going to be tough, with games against the rest of the NFC West (already 0-2 against them), the AFC East will be no cake walk, the Dolphins and Jets are now playing good football. I'd be thrilled with an AFC East title, and I'm not expecting anything else after (probable first round loss). I hope I'm extremely wrong, and I see some of my quotes come back to haunt me after a Super Bowl win, but I just don't see it.

You are talking about three games sample. Let's see how the season goes.

Also, I don't know if I buy the gotta win close games to be a contender argument. If the Pats 3 wins were close game wins and the losses were by 7 or more points a game, people would be complaining that this team isn't a contender because they can't win anything but close games.

This team is still a Super Bowl contender because every team has flaws especially in the AFC and the Pats are talented enough especially on offense to beat anyone. This is a young team and I think this team will be much better in December and January than it is now.

BTW, people were saying a lot of same thing around this time last year when the Pats lost back to back games vs. the Steelers and the Giants (can't beat good teams, can't beat a good QB, etc.).

Until the Pats prove they are not a contender which very few teams have shown at this point in the season. I have faith in Belichick and Brady pulling this team together. They did last year with some of the same concerns.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

In the last decade, being a Super Bowl contender has been a lot more about getting hot/lucky at the right time than it has been about anything else.

Hell, if you want proof, just look at the JEST.

 

[FalconHeavy]

regarding number 3, my fear is for the rookie DB's and that they are going to follow the same path as all the other recent DB's in that their first year is going to be their best year given that the patricia/boyer/flores combo is going to destroy them.

I'm really afraid of this scenario. They have no more excuses left.

 

[Rob0729]

In the last decade, being a Super Bowl contender has been a lot more about getting hot/lucky at the right time than it has been about anything else.

Hell, if you want proof, just look at the JEST.

Yeah, I think three of the last five Super Bowl winners were either Wild Card teams or 3rd or 4th seeds. The Giants were 9-7 last year (4th seed), the Packers were a Wild Card team in 2010 with a 10-6 record (and 8-6 after 14 games), and the Giants were a Wild Card in 2007.

 

[SVN]

Right now they are not a mentally strong team even though brady claims so. Pats of the past would never piss away leads in the 4th Q. They will never run 3 times and punt to burn the clock -will instead go for the 1st down. They choked down the stretch .This is like the 2008 team so far. Not good in crunch times at least on offense. I cant blame the defense- maybe the drafting and developing of the secondary yes. But they are poor -eveyrone knows that. Brady has all these wordly players and cant run a 4 min offense in 3 games this yr to finish a game off against the same defense he was shredding all game. Maybe yesterday he was bit concussed after the hit so they just called running plays but still...

 

[Rob0729]

One note I forgot:

In hindsight, Wilson met his perfect match up with the Pats. He sucks as a short and intermediate passer, but his long ball is a thing of beauty. He is on the money on passes over 20 yards. That killed the Pats down field. Luckily this week, Sanchez is a bad deep ball passer.

 

[aluminum seats]

--I might be wrong, but I think it's tough for rookies to lobby for calls too much. By next year, Jones might be able to exert himself more that way (or even later this year.)

--Dennard has shown flashes. I think we just have to be patient and give Boyer the time he needs to destroy him.

 

[TruthSeeker]

It's a shame, but the Pats don't have that Rodney Harrison or Tedy Bruschi or Willie McGinest to punch offenses in the mouth. Coming out of college, Chung had that reputation, but he has only shown it once in a while. I think Hightower and Jones can be our Bruschi and McGinest, but we need that Rodney Harrison out there smacking people in the mouth, getting fined, and causing fear. Mayo is a tackling machine, but I don't think people fear him, Spikes is a killer, but more in the Johnson/Cox mold. We need defenders that will scare people, cause havoc, and we sure don't have that in our secondary, QB's love facing our secondary. Also, the Pats need to blitz more, you can't only depend on a rookie to get all of your sacks. I believe Rodney Harrison is the only player to have 30+ INTs and 30+ sacks. Send in the safety blitz. The defense is just too passive, no attack mode.

 

[chris_in_sunnyvale]

One note I forgot:

In hindsight, Wilson met his perfect match up with the Pats. He sucks as a short and intermediate passer, but his long ball is a thing of beauty. He is on the money on passes over 20 yards. That killed the Pats down field. Luckily this week, Sanchez is a bad deep ball passer.

I didn't catch the game until I saw the condensed replay late last night on gamerewind. This point stuck out. The only time Wilson could move the team downfield was when he hit those deep lobs. The rest of the time he was very ineffective. Very frustrating, considering BB is all about "bend but don't break" and they broke *twice* in the fourth quarter on long bombs, including the game winner.

On a tangent: IMO, all rookie QBs should be forced to prove they can throw the out pattern consistently. Defenders should clog the middle and the CBs on the outside should cheat towards the inside, daring the QB to squeeze one between the defender and the sideline. I'm not sure Wilson would have hit on many of those.

Regards,
Chris

 

[Boomer B]

I think that Belichick - as coach and as GM - has to be better.

1. The whole world knew after last year that the Pats needed a deep threat to open up those shorter routes for Welker and the TE's. We got Lloyd who has been good but he is a possesion receiver with great hands, not a deep threat. Opposing secondary's do not have to respect the deep ball. Branch can't gain seperation and Belichick should have found someone who can open things up downfield for his spot.

2. The secondary has been horrible for years. Gregory has been a career back up but is a starter with us. Wilson wasn't even on some teams draft boards but he's playing a big role with us. I hope he pans out but with Bill's history in drafting DBs lately who knows what will happen. Chung isn't starter quality. Our starting corners wouldn't be starting on most other teams. This is on Bill. Either bring in free agents who have proven themselves or change what you are looking for in DBs when drafting. It' been going on for far to long.

3. If Patricia wants to be vanilla then override him and call some blitzes. If it's yourself who wants to be vanilla then bring in an experienced D coordinator and let them change things up.

4. For the life of me I don't understand why they don't try some play action in the red zone. We've had a good running game this year and we have 2 of the best TEs in the league, yet we come out in 3 wide and tip the D that we will be passing. Same as on the drives to close out games. Do some friggin play action on 1st or 2nd down. The D is playing to stop the run, Gronk and Hernandez should be having a feast on play action. Tell McDaniels this needs to be part of the game plan now.

Now this probably came across as a negative post but I still believe Bill is the best in the business and we are lucky to have him, but it's frustrating as hell to see the secondary year after year be one of the worst in the league, yet it isn't addressed. It's frustrating that we still can't find one receiver that can stretch a D.

 

[Rob0729]

I think that Belichick - as coach and as GM - has to be better.

1. The whole world knew after last year that the Pats needed a deep threat to open up those shorter routes for Welker and the TE's. We got Lloyd who has been good but he is a possesion receiver with great hands, not a deep threat. Opposing secondary's do not have to respect the deep ball. Branch can't gain seperation and Belichick should have found someone who can open things up downfield for his spot.

The Pats are the #1 offense in the league. Lloyd fulfills what the Pats really needed which was not as much the deep threat, but an outside threat. Seriously, the Pats are both #1 in yards and points and you are saying that Belichick failed to build a good offense and are easily shutdown because they have no deep threat?

In fact, you can argue that the only time the Pats are easily stopable is when the Pats play conservative late in games protecting a lead where opposing teams wouldn't be worried about the deep threat anyway.

 

[Boomer B]

The Pats are the #1 offense in the league. Lloyd fulfills what the Pats really needed which was not as much the deep threat, but an outside threat. Seriously, the Pats are both #1 in yards and points and you are saying that Belichick failed to build a good offense and are easily shutdown because they have no deep threat?

In fact, you can argue that the only time the Pats are easily stopable is when the Pats play conservative late in games protecting a lead where opposing teams wouldn't be worried about the deep threat anyway.

No where in my post did I say Belichick failed to build a good offense. They are a very good offense, the numbers speak for themselves. What I am talking about is Branch's spot on the outside. He doesn't gain any seperation anymore. That spot would be much better used for a WR who has speed and can stretch the D. Doesn't have to be a superstar, just someone the opposing D has to respect and leave a safety back in coverage to protect against the deep ball.

 

[aluminum seats]

No where in my post did I say Belichick failed to build a good offense. They are a very good offense, the numbers speak for themselves. What I am talking about is Branch's spot on the outside. He doesn't gain any seperation anymore. That spot would be much better used for a WR who has speed and can stretch the D. Doesn't have to be a superstar, just someone the opposing D has to respect and leave a safety back in coverage to protect against the deep ball.

I wonder if the issue isn't more Brady than the receiver. Lloyd's rep was/is that, although not a burner, he was a guy who would pretty much get whatever came his way. So if Brady could just throw the deep ball NEAR the guy, there's your deep threat.

 

[Patriot Missile]

I'm usually pretty positive but this loss took a lot out of the sails. I'm starting to think every time we are up by 2, 3 or 6 on the opposing team that they will find a way to score. Buffaloitis.

You can easily say Brady blew it withe the red zone interceptions. Kind of unfair considering how efficient and successful he has been over the years but the truth nonetheless. We are so spoiled by him its not even funny and when he fails like he did Sunday it sticks out like a sore thumb. Enjoy him while he is here everybody because he will be gone someday and there will be somebody else making the most innacurate throws that you'll need a straight jacket.


I used to think the front seven made the secondary or vise versa. Not ours. Id take our front 7 over almost any team in the league. Their gonna be great as long as they stay healthy and together
I hats to assign blame cuz I don't know if the scheme sucks or the personal. I'm not sure a few of these guys are very good but cant deny that the philosophy is not sinking in or being taught right.

If the problem continues id like to see bb just utilize the front 7 by just turning them loose up front. Destroy the run and take the qbs head off. It will be more exciting then patiently awaiting a painful execution on the final drive.

 

[mgteich]

We are tied for the 3rd best record in the AFC. We have the easiest schedule (or close). Of course, we are a Super Bowl contender.

Rob,

I agree with a lot of your comments, and respect your views. I just wish I could be as upbeat as you. BUT, the first few words of your last comments "I still think this team is a legitimate Super Bowl contender", I couldn't disagree with you more. This team is far from a SB contender.