Wes Welker...I'm confused

[Pats_AZ]

Ok, serious question for you all. So I keep reading WELKER is being phased out, not in starting lineup etc. I will admit during the off season I haven't followed the boards or any other NFL/Patriots news. So with that said...why are we phasing him out? Why is there all this talk about him being replaced by Edelman? Are we certain we are letting him go after this season? From my perspective, he is still better than Edelman and still a top tier slot receiver so I'm curious what's going on. I hope it's not because of last years SB performance...is it? Again, not asking to be inflammatory, I just don't know and I'm wondering what's going on. I still think he can be productive for a few more years easy. Thanks for the info in advance.

J

 

[BradyManny]

There's a ton of factors in the Welker thing and why he wasn't getting the same reps to start the year, and the problem is everyone wants to boil it down to one easily identifiable thing.

Such factors include:
- Aaron Hernandez, and his ability to play multiple positions, including the slot
- Julian Edelman, showing improved ability and potential in training camp
- The Patriots desire to run their base offense out of a versatile 2-tight end set
- The Patriots desire to field a lineup made of as versatile-as-possible skill position players
- The resulting desire that the two wide receivers in that 2TE set should be more than just slot receivers
- Wes Welker's future as a Patriot, and the Patriots need to understand their long-term options there
- Wes Welker missing time in training camp, for personal reasons and/or being banged up

To name a few.

 

[DarrylS]

Not sure that there is a lot of validity to any of this, but it makes great fodder for the mediots on the airwaves... from Felger to Toucher and Rich.

This morning heard D & C, rant and rave about all of this.. thank god there are choices..

The reality is that poor Wes is being paid 9+ million this year as he is franchised, after turning down 16 million for two years..

We all love Wes, but he is now 31 and will be 32 before the next training camp, it comes down to how much do we want to pay this guy at his age..

Don't fall in love with the veterans...

 

[PatsDeb]

The phasing out of Welker experiment ended, at least temporarily, with the injuries to Hernandez and Edelman. Now that Welker has proven that he hasn't lost a step and he has proven that in fact, he IS very important to making the Pat's O go, I hope the experiment stays "ended."

 

[NYCPatsFan]

Not sure that there is a lot of validity to any of this, but it makes great fodder for the mediots on the airwaves... from Felger to Toucher and Rich.

This morning heard D & C, rant and rave about all of this.. thank god there are choices..

The reality is that poor Wes is being paid 9+ million this year as he is franchised, after turning down 16 million for two years..

We all love Wes, but he is now 31 and will be 32 before the next training camp, it comes down to how much do we want to pay this guy at his age..

Don't fall in love with the veterans...

Well, couldn't 'poor Wes' also have held out like how many other high performing players did?

Many admire/love him because he acted fair and peformed his best to the contract that he signed for without complainig inspite of his importance to the team and the records he set. Period.

I know, that is what all fans expect players to do what we usually do in our regular work: you sign a contract and so honor it instead of complaining after one year that you are underpaid.

But then, reality is, there is no way of comparing or imposing the average Joe's life, risk/reward, work ethics and expectations with these high profile guys raking in millions. It is laughable for us ordinary folks when Ty Law makes a stupid comment that he has to put food on the table, but it clearly reveals that the rich performers have a completely different manner in which they view how they should be measured/compensated. Doubt if we can grasp or understand their thinking and mentality when it comes to getting paid.

Glad that I am not working in the FO to treat this as pure business decision and keeping emotions aside.

 

[NYCPatsFan]

The phasing out of Welker experiment ended, at least temporarily, with the injuries to Hernandez and Edelman. Now that Welker has proven that he hasn't lost a step and he has proven that in fact, he IS very important to making the Pat's O go, I hope the experiment stays "ended."

Will be interesting to see what happen when AH and JE return.

Will BB stick it up to WW's face? Wish BB also joked about WW's comment in his PC when asked about it; BB's cryptic and dour reaction makes me fear that he's pissed off. Hope I am wrong.

 

[dannydyn]

I can't see them phasing him out, or else why bother with a franchise tag? If you don't want the guy, let him loose...

 

[PatsDeb]

Will be interesting to see what happen when AH and JE return.

Will BB stick it up to WW's face? Wish BB also joked about WW's comment in his PC when asked about it; BB's cryptic and dour reaction makes me fear that he's pissed off. Hope I am wrong.

Agreed. I didn't see the press conference, but I winced when I heard Welker's comment, thinking, "Why'd you do that, Wes?"

 

[ThatllMoveTheChains!!!]

There's a ton of factors in the Welker thing and why he wasn't getting the same reps to start the year, and the problem is everyone wants to boil it down to one easily identifiable thing.

Such factors include:
- Aaron Hernandez, and his ability to play multiple positions, including the slot
- Julian Edelman, showing improved ability and potential in training camp
- The Patriots desire to run their base offense out of a versatile 2-tight end set
- The Patriots desire to field a lineup made of as versatile-as-possible skill position players
- The resulting desire that the two wide receivers in that 2TE set should be more than just slot receivers
- Wes Welker's future as a Patriot, and the Patriots need to understand their long-term options there
- Wes Welker missing time in training camp, for personal reasons and/or being banged up

To name a few.

Not to mention the media and even a lot of fans are desperate to create a villain out of the situation. The "OMG the Pats are benching WW out of spite" story definitely served that up. I'm just happy that the media has tired of the Pats because I could only imagine how much play it would've gotten a few years ago.

 

[Deus Irae]

Ok, serious question for you all. So I keep reading WELKER is being phased out, not in starting lineup etc. I will admit during the off season I haven't followed the boards or any other NFL/Patriots news. So with that said...why are we phasing him out? Why is there all this talk about him being replaced by Edelman? Are we certain we are letting him go after this season? From my perspective, he is still better than Edelman and still a top tier slot receiver so I'm curious what's going on. I hope it's not because of last years SB performance...is it? Again, not asking to be inflammatory, I just don't know and I'm wondering what's going on. I still think he can be productive for a few more years easy. Thanks for the info in advance.

J

McDaniels/Belichick screwed up. Whether they felt their logic was sound isn't really relevant, IMO. They made a mistake. The mistake has been remedied, unfortunately due to injuries. Hopefully, Edelman and Hernandez will return and be blended into the current system rather than the team trying to force the change on the offense yet again.

 

[goheels22002]

This reminds me of the old saying that only Dean Smith could hold Michael Jordan under 15 points per game. During his college career, MJ played on a team with tons of talent and the objective was to wear down opponents by coming at them from every imaginable angle.

The Patriots are the same offensively. Welker was such a central focus of this offense, particularly before Gronk and Hernandez arrived, and when the running game was anemic before BJGE took over for Maroney.

Now there are so many weapons that cameo performances work effectively (Vereen for a TD and Woodhead on 3rd and 17). Welker's pre-eminent role should diminish to keep defenses guessing and to preserve him for later in the season.

He's still the best safety valve in the passing game, so he'll get his receptions as the primary target and as a checkdown option. It doesn't make sense to me that there is a plot to write him out of the script unless his popping off with the media turns into fodder for opposing teams.

 

[mgteich]

Agreed.

We have the best offense in the nfl without Hernandez and Edelman. Belichick and Josh will work out how to improve the offense when they come back.

Fells and Branch average 50% of the offensive reps each. Gronkowski, Lloyd and Welker play essentially 100% of the time. If Hernandez plays all the 2 TE/2 WR sets (replacing Fells) and Edelman plays all the 1 TE / 3 WR sets (replacing Branch), then we should be fine. I would expect that we be running 2 TE sets much more often than 1 TE sets with Hernandez back.

I see NO reason to see Edelman on the field as one of our TWO wide receivers. To have Edelman on the field as one of our 2 WR's diminishes our offensive capability.

2013 should make little difference in how much we play either Welker or Edelman. Neither is signed for 2013. If anything, Salas should get a few reps to help him develop.

McDaniels/Belichick screwed up. Whether they felt their logic was sound isn't really relevant, IMO. They made a mistake. The mistake has been remedied, unfortunately due to injuries. Hopefully, Edelman and Hernandez will return and be blended into the current system rather than the team trying to force the change on the offense yet again.

 

[Brady_to_Moss]

The pats need to keep wes after seeing him this year and how he can still produce

 

[nashvillepatsfan]

McDaniels/Belichick screwed up. Whether they felt their logic was sound isn't really relevant, IMO.

Why do you feel they screwed up? Do you have a link to a story, or some sort of behind the scenes knowledge that makes you believe they screwed up? I mean, something credible, not gossip.

edit. Im not starting a p*ssing contest with ya about it. Im seriously wondering if you've heard something, because all i've heard for the past month, has been based on speculation.

 

[PP2]

Why do you feel they screwed up? Do you have a link to a story, or some sort of behind the scenes knowledge that makes you believe they screwed up? I mean, something credible, not gossip.

edit. Im not starting a p*ssing contest with ya about it. Im seriously wondering if you've heard something, because all i've heard for the past month, has been based on speculation.

I think it's pretty obvious that they were trying to phase him out with an eye towards '13 and freeing up $9m. They have a history of waiving players who allegedly were still in their prime or just past it, especially those with large cap-unfriendly salaries. Some parts of me also think there has to be some kind of pissing contest between BB and Welker because we all know Welker is very strong-minded and speaks his mind sometimes (e.g., "foot soldier" & "stick it in his face") and it's not hard to imagine there might be a little tension going on.

Even though we've locked up Hernandez and Gronk for the long run, there is still the RB corp to lock up after next season (Ridley, et al).

I believe the issue as far as a contract isn't really the amount, but the number of years Welker's agent as well as he, believes he has left in the tank.

Hopefully something works out, but if BB pulls a Kosar and we lose Welker at the end of this season, this in my mind, will go down as the stupidest blunder in BB's lengthy and storied career, without a doubt.

 

[dizi24]

I think it's pretty obvious that they were trying to phase him out with an eye towards '13 and freeing up $9m.

I really think this is absolute BS. You really think Bellichick would take one of his best offensive players out because he wanted to get ready for next year? I'm sure he has plans for next year and the years beyond that, but for a guy who refuses to talk about anything but getting ready for the next game, you'd have to be crazy to think Bill was taking out players that he thought would help them win the next game just to get them more ready for next year.

This whole "phasing out" thing is stupid. Bellichick didn't play him because he thought Edelman gave them a better chance of winning that week. It's so annoying thinking Bellichick, with an aging hall of fame quarterback, would sit a player to get ready for next year in weeks one and two.

Can we stop this stupid "phasing out" nonsense as a means to get ready for next year. If Belichick didn't want 9 million on his books this year, he wouldn't have franchised him. And if he didn't want him on the team next year, he wouldn't have offered him a two year contract.

 

[RelocatedPatFan]

The tough think for me about WW is that he "gets" the route tree better than any WR TB's ever played with (including Branch). As much as it is possible, it's like having 2 bodies and 1 mind (though they do have the occassional miscue).

Also, Wes can make some incredible catches look routine (down by the feet) and there was one last week that I swear he could only have seen the ball a fraction of a second, but nailed the catch. Granted TB threw it perfectly, but not every receiver can make that quick a catch (the pass was thrown outside to the right before the first down marker, but WW got the 1st down).

And pound for pound there aren't many people tougher than Wes, though age could be a factor for that going forward.

 

[PATSYLICIOUS]

We were all confused my homey. Anything that leads to Edelman getting more offensive snaps than Wes Welker is confusing - you hit the nail on the head with that term.

People can talk about packages, slot, outside all they want, but honestly there was no excuse for that. All we can hope for at this point is that it's OVER.

 

[PP2]

I really think this is absolute BS. You really think Bellichick would take one of his best offensive players out because he wanted to get ready for next year? I'm sure he has plans for next year and the years beyond that, but for a guy who refuses to talk about anything but getting ready for the next game, you'd have to be crazy to think Bill was taking out players that he thought would help them win the next game just to get them more ready for next year.

This whole "phasing out" thing is stupid. Bellichick didn't play him because he thought Edelman gave them a better chance of winning that week. It's so annoying thinking Bellichick, with an aging hall of fame quarterback, would sit a player to get ready for next year in weeks one and two.

Can we stop this stupid "phasing out" nonsense as a means to get ready for next year. If Belichick didn't want 9 million on his books this year, he wouldn't have franchised him. And if he didn't want him on the team next year, he wouldn't have offered him a two year contract.

I'm not interested in what you think constitutes "common sense." The fact is Welker did not start in game 1 and only came on strong when Hernandez got injured. As far as we know, Welker did not have any injuries, lingering or otherwise hidden, otherwise the number of snaps he was in wouldn't have spiked when Hernandez went out.

 

[dizi24]

I'm not interested in what you think constitutes "common sense." The fact is Welker did not start in game 1 and only came on strong when Hernandez got injured. As far as we know, Welker did not have any injuries, lingering or otherwise hidden, otherwise the number of snaps he was in wouldn't have spiked when Hernandez went out.

No one is disputing that Welker was not playing much early on. What is being disputed is this ridiculous notion that Belichick did so to make the team less reliant so we can transition to an offense without Welker next year. It keeps getting repeated and it's absurd.