Regular refs, replacement mistakes

[Wolfpack]

I find it pretty amusing how the people who lambasted the replacements for their incompetence, lack of knowledge of the rules, etc, etc, are giving the regular refs a complete free pass on all their gaffes.

Last night, AZ had the ball 2nd and 10 on their own 20 and Kolb was sacked back to the 14, but there was roughing the passer. The correct call is to mark it off 15 yards from the previous spot, giving AZ the ball on the 35, but what the refs actually did was mark it 15 yards from the dead ball spot, giving them the ball at the 29.

The entire football world threw conniptions when a replacement ref made that sort of mistake but when a regular ref did the same, nobody cared or even noticed - except me.

 

[ThatllMoveTheChains!!!]

To me the issue with the replacements wasn't so much the bad calls, but the fact that the bad calls seemed to be purely dependent on how much they were getting pressured by coaches, players, and fans. The other issue was that they were seemingly getting worse by the week. Using the Pats as an example: week 1 was a solidly reffed game; week 2 the first half was solid, but the wheels came off in the second half after the Arizona coach berated the refs all game long; week 3 was an abortion that could only make sense if you thought the refs were actively trying to fix the game while dispelling the notion that they were fixing the game. I don't think the regular refs are perfect or even great, but I've certainly never seen anything like the debacles we saw on SNF and MNF week 3 under them.

 

[Palm Beach Pats Fan]

Missing calls was not the main issue with the replacement refs.

The replacement officials simply could not administer the game, meaning:

1) they could not keep the game moving, with all of the random extended moments of indecision

2) they often did not know the rules, even basic football knowledge was lacking, such as spotting the ball correctly (which can in rare cases happen with "real" refs too)

3) Players took advantage of them

4) they could not keep random skirmishes from breaking out all over the field 10X a game due to missed cheap shots resulting from #3

5) to make up for #3 and #4, when the games were getting out of hand, they felt the need to call something on somebody, whether it happened or not.

6) they were usually unable to communicate their calls to coaches, players, fans, or anybody for that matter, making everyone frustrated.

So while 15-20 bad calls a game are more than the 2-5 bad calls we are used to, that doesn't tell anywhere near the whole story.

 

[Deus Irae]

The call wasn't roughing the passer. It was unnecessary roughness.

2-10-ARI 20 (6:28) (Shotgun) 4-K.Kolb sacked at ARI 14 for -6 yards (93-J.Cudjo). PENALTY on SL-93-J.Cudjo, Unnecessary Roughness, 15 yards, enforced at ARI 14.

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2012100400/2012/REG5/cardinals@rams#menu=highlights&tab=analyze&recap=fullstory&analyze=playbyplay

 

[Sicilian]

The call wasn't roughing the passer. It was unnecessary roughness.

NFL Game Center: Arizona Cardinals at St. Louis Rams - 2012 Week 5

Well this kills the need for my point (since it wasn't actually a mistake), but I'll make it anyway

I said when the deal was finally struck that we should be prepared for a few weeks of mild sloppiness from the regular officials. Preseason games in normal years are always a little more raw in the officiating department, as even the refs have to get themselves up to game speed just like the players. These first couple weeks are kind of like their warmup games now.

 

[Patsfanin Philly]

I find it pretty amusing how the people who lambasted the replacements for their incompetence, lack of knowledge of the rules, etc, etc, are giving the regular refs a complete free pass on all their gaffes.

Last night, AZ had the ball 2nd and 10 on their own 20 and Kolb was sacked back to the 14, but there was roughing the passer. The correct call is to mark it off 15 yards from the previous spot, giving AZ the ball on the 35, but what the refs actually did was mark it 15 yards from the dead ball spot, giving them the ball at the 29.

The entire football world threw conniptions when a replacement ref made that sort of mistake but when a regular ref did the same, nobody cared or even noticed - except me.

If it's the play I'm thinking of ( he WAS sacked 9 times) he was 'roughed at the three yard line and they brought it out to the 26. The previous line of scrimmage was the 11 so I think they marked it off from there making it a correct spot but it looked off until I went to the nfl.com game site....Unless it was another rtp penalty...

 

[DarrylS]

For me the replacement refs disrupted they rhythm of the game, and found that very disconcerting..

Refs always make mistakes, whether it be last night or last year. This is a very fast game, with many nuances and great room for error..

 

[Wolfpack]

The call wasn't roughing the passer. It was unnecessary roughness.



NFL Game Center: Arizona Cardinals at St. Louis Rams - 2012 Week 5

ok cool thanks for the clarification. :rocker:

 

[brdmaverick]

Or how about this one.....and I'm not saying it's a bad call, just maybe the rule needs to be tweeked.

Browns vs. Ravens last Thursday Night. A FOURTH DOWN pass falls incomplete in the back of the endzone ending the Browns last hope of a comeback.....but wait...flag on the play. this flag was for a personal foul that happened AFTER the play. Since happened AFTER the play it had zero affect on the actual outcome of that play. More importantly, since this happened after the play you would think it would think the Ravens would simply be marched 15 yards back on their ensuing possession.

Again, I'm not saying the refs got it wrong, it just FEELS wrong. I think it's because of the rule and not the refs.

 

[ThatllMoveTheChains!!!]

Or how about this one.....and I'm not saying it's a bad call, just maybe the rule needs to be tweeked.

Browns vs. Ravens last Thursday Night. A FOURTH DOWN pass falls incomplete in the back of the endzone ending the Browns last hope of a comeback.....but wait...flag on the play. this flag was for a personal foul that happened AFTER the play. Since happened AFTER the play it had zero affect on the actual outcome of that play. More importantly, since this happened after the play you would think it would think the Ravens would simply be marched 15 yards back on their ensuing possession.

Again, I'm not saying the refs got it wrong, it just FEELS wrong. I think it's because of the rule and not the refs.

Generally after the whistle personal fouls are pretty egregious... Maybe the Ravens should worry more about winning the football game than playing thug on the field. I have no problem with a rule that hurts a team in a very real way as it prevents games getting out of hand.

 

[Kontradiction]

You must have gotten your ass handed to you on a silver platter by someone here if you're still stuck on this topic...

 

[PatsDeb]

Missing calls was not the main issue with the replacement refs.

The replacement officials simply could not administer the game, meaning:

1) they could not keep the game moving, with all of the random extended moments of indecision

2) they often did not know the rules, even basic football knowledge was lacking, such as spotting the ball correctly (which can in rare cases happen with "real" refs too)

3) Players took advantage of them

4) they could not keep random skirmishes from breaking out all over the field 10X a game due to missed cheap shots resulting from #3

5) to make up for #3 and #4, when the games were getting out of hand, they felt the need to call something on somebody, whether it happened or not.

6) they were usually unable to communicate their calls to coaches, players, fans, or anybody for that matter, making everyone frustrated.

So while 15-20 bad calls a game are more than the 2-5 bad calls we are used to, that doesn't tell anywhere near the whole story.

Agree with this analysis.

 

[Palm Beach Pats Fan]

Or how about this one.....and I'm not saying it's a bad call, just maybe the rule needs to be tweeked.

Browns vs. Ravens last Thursday Night. A FOURTH DOWN pass falls incomplete in the back of the endzone ending the Browns last hope of a comeback.....but wait...flag on the play. this flag was for a personal foul that happened AFTER the play. Since happened AFTER the play it had zero affect on the actual outcome of that play. More importantly, since this happened after the play you would think it would think the Ravens would simply be marched 15 yards back on their ensuing possession.

Again, I'm not saying the refs got it wrong, it just FEELS wrong. I think it's because of the rule and not the refs.

If you don't want to be penalized, then don't commit a penalty. The timing does not matter a bit, unless it is a play where there is a change of possession (INT, fumble recovery, punt) and then it matters-- then you have to determine who had possession of the ball when the penalty occurred.

In your example, the defense never took possession of the ball before the penalty, so the personal foul penalty that seemingly had no effect on the play killed the D, properly, and I don't see any reason why the punishment would "feel wrong" to anyone.

 

[jcdavey]

I find it pretty amusing how the people who lambasted the replacements for their incompetence, lack of knowledge of the rules, etc, etc, are giving the regular refs a complete free pass on all their gaffes.

Last night, AZ had the ball 2nd and 10 on their own 20 and Kolb was sacked back to the 14, but there was roughing the passer. The correct call is to mark it off 15 yards from the previous spot, giving AZ the ball on the 35, but what the refs actually did was mark it 15 yards from the dead ball spot, giving them the ball at the 29.

The entire football world threw conniptions when a replacement ref made that sort of mistake but when a regular ref did the same, nobody cared or even noticed - except me.

people will remember that all refs are bags of ****......

it will just take some, a little longer

 

[Pujo]

people will remember that all refs are bags of ****......

They are? And all along I thought that they were just people with a job, who sometimes make mistakes like anyone else. I even thought that was the case for the replacements, though they made even more mistakes. I didn't realize it actually made them bad people, my mistake.

Woah, I just admitted to a mistake, I hope you don't think of me as a bag of ***** now.