BB/SP drafts for pats

[everlong]

To be a good team year in and year out in the salary cap era you need to have very good drafts. The Pats have never had a complete miss year under BB/SP but we've had years where we only hit at the top. I think this is a really pivotal year where they really need to hit every where. The 2002 and 2003 draft classes were extremely good setting up the super bowls in 03 and 04. I think the 06 class was a major hit at least so far, still early. If we can have an impact draft two years in a row like 02/03 I think it could spell another trip to the top.

The players that have been major hits are in bold.

2001- They hit home runs with Seymour and Light but nobody else ever did more than contribute to special teams.

1 Richard Seymour 6 DL Georgia
2 Matt Light 48 T Purdue
3 Brock Williams 86 CB Notre Dame
4a Kenyatta Jones 96 T South Florida
4b Jabari Holloway 119 TE Notre Dame
5 Hakim Akbar 163 SS Washington
6a Arther Love 180 TE South Carolina State
6b Leonard Myers 200 CB Miami (Fla.)
7a Owen Pochman 216 K BYU
7b T.J. Turner 239 LB Michigan State


2002- Great draft. They hit on everybody except one 7th rounder. Even Davey had some staying power.

1 Daniel Graham 21 TE Colorado
2 Deion Branch 65 WR Louisville
4a Rohan Davey 117 QB Louisiana State
4b Jarvis Green 126 DL Louisiana State
7a Antwoine Womack 237 RB Virginia
7b David Givens 253 WR Notre Dame


2003- Very good draft but missing on a second rounder with Bethel is tough you can say hitting on Samuel and Koppen later more than made up for it, klecko never did contribute much here beyone being a fill in full back.

1 Ty Warren 13 DL Texas A&M
2a Eugene Wilson 36 DB Illinois
2b Bethel Johnson 45 WR Texas A&M
4a Dan Klecko 117 DL Temple
4b Asante Samuel 120 CB Central Florida
5 Dan Koppen 164 C Boston College
6 Kliff Kingsbury 201 QB Texas Tech
7a Spencer Nead 234 TE BYU
7b Tully Banta-Cain 239 LB California
7c Ethan Kelley


2004- much like 2001 they hit heavy at the top but nothing after that. I think missing on the rest of this draft is why we lack a little depth right now.

1a Vince Wilfork 21 DL Miami (Fla.)
1b Benjamin Watson 32 TE Georgia
2b Marquise Hill 63 DE Louisiana State
3 Guss Scott 95 S Florida
4a Dexter Reid 113 S North Carolina
4b Cedric Cobbs 128 RB Arkansas
5 P.K. Sam 164 WR Florida State
7 Christian Morton 233 CB Florida State

2005- tough to fully evaluate this early but 5 contributors is pretty good.

1 Logan Mankins 32 G Fresno State
3a Ellis Hobbs 84 CB Iowa State
3b Nick Kaczur 100 T Toledo
4 James Sanders 133 S Fresno State
5 Ryan Claridge 170 OLB Nevada-Las Vegas
7a Matt Cassel 230 QB Southern California
7b Andy Stokes 255 TE William Penn

2006- So far so good but if we could get some production out of Jackson it would be extremely good.

1 Laurence Maroney 21 RB Minnesota
2 Chad Jackson 36 WR Florida
3 David Thomas 86 TE Texas
4a Garrett Mills 106 FB Tulsa
4b Stephen Gostkowski 118 K Memphis
5a Ryan O'Callaghan 136 T California
6a Jeremy Mincey 191 LB Florida
6b Dan Stevenson 205 G Notre Dame
6c Le Kevin Smith 206 DL Nebraska
7 Willie Andrews 229 DB Baylor

This must be an great draft for us.

 

[cstjohn17]

Nice post, 3 LBs since 2001, none made the team... time to get a better LB scout...

 

[rookBoston]

Nice post, 3 LBs since 2001, none made the team... time to get a better LB scout...

Claridge lost interest in football after his brother died... that was more circumstance than talent.

Banta-Cain is actually more disappointing than most people think. Granted, he has made the team, and contributed every year in a backup capacity. But, although he remains a great pure pass rusher, he is a liability against the run. This is proven by the fact that the Pats chose to play Alexander inside and move Vrabel outside against the Colts, after getting gouged over and over again by the Chargers.

Mincey was actually beaten out in training camp by Pierre Woods. You have to give the scout team props for finding Woods, if you knock them for taking Mincey. Woods has been an interesting prospect-- unlikely to ever be a game breaker, but could develop into a meaningful player over time.

The key is that all three were late round picks; at that point in the draft we're really taking a shot in the dark, hoping to find David Givens or Tom Brady in a stack of trash.

As the original post shows, BB/SP's hit rate in the first round is perfect. If they can find one (or two) LBs in this draft that they like as first round talent, I feel good that we'll take home a real solution to the need at the position.

 

[DaBruinz]

Nice post, 3 LBs since 2001, none made the team... time to get a better LB scout...

So, you are saying that BB and Pioli need to be replaced? They are the ones making the final picks and, from my understanding, the Pats haven't ever drafted anyone they haven't talked to (outside of the 2000 season).

Mincey would have made the team, but was under the impression that he would be given a chance to learn the system. I think that Mincey could still end up a good NFL player, but it will be for another team.

Also, no one scout focuses on LBs to my knowledge. So, they would have to replace the whole staff.

Also, I think that Claridge would have made the team this year, but he got injured and then his brother died this past off-season and I think that just broke his psyche.

Things like that happen. There really isn't a screening you do to find out what would happen if a sibling dies.

 

[cstjohn17]

Those all sound like excuses to me, they have not drafted LBs very often because they were stacked at the position for years. They took some fliers on low round picks that didn't pan out. Talent evaluation is not a science, and please sit down, this may shock and alarm you "they are not perfect and they make mistakes". They have been as good or better than most but still make mistakes. The end result is that we have not had any impact LBs enter the Patriots via the draft with BB and SP.

I don't think they have talked to all their picks, and what difference does that make? They talked with Chad Jackson for an hour, does that mean he is going to be a star?

I have confidence they will restock the LBs this year, with 1 or 2 coming from the draft and 1 or 2 as veteran FAs.

So, you are saying that BB and Pioli need to be replaced? They are the ones making the final picks and, from my understanding, the Pats haven't ever drafted anyone they haven't talked to (outside of the 2000 season).

Mincey would have made the team, but was under the impression that he would be given a chance to learn the system. I think that Mincey could still end up a good NFL player, but it will be for another team.

Also, no one scout focuses on LBs to my knowledge. So, they would have to replace the whole staff.

Also, I think that Claridge would have made the team this year, but he got injured and then his brother died this past off-season and I think that just broke his psyche.

Things like that happen. There really isn't a screening you do to find out what would happen if a sibling dies.

 

[DaBruinz]

Those all sound like excuses to me, they have not drafted LBs very often because they were stacked at the position for years. They took some fliers on low round picks that didn't pan out. Talent evaluation is not a science, and please sit down, this may shock and alarm you "they are not perfect and they make mistakes". They have been as good or better than most but still make mistakes. The end result is that we have not had any impact LBs enter the Patriots via the draft with BB and SP.

I don't think they have talked to all their picks, and what difference does that make? They talked with Chad Jackson for an hour, does that mean he is going to be a star?

I have confidence they will restock the LBs this year, with 1 or 2 coming from the draft and 1 or 2 as veteran FAs.

Excuses? WOW. I take it you never took a psychology course in college. The loss of a family member who you are close to can be devestating to a person. And there is no way a coach or scout can know that through a basic interview process. Even an in depth one isn't likely to tell you.

Actually, the Pats have talked to all their picks and it makes a HUGE difference. Its called an INTERVIEW process. That's where they talk to you and see if you meet their qualifications. With your statements, I am going to assume that you've never actually had one or just don't understand the concepts.

Also, since you seem to be new to the BB/Pioli era, BB and Pioli have said that the reason they haven't drafted a LB earlier is that they haven't felt that the top end talent was good enough to handle their system. They've talked about re-evaluating their criteria, but they've said whenever they have, they have come to the same conclusions.

 

[cstjohn17]

Excuses? WOW. I take it you never took a psychology course in college. The loss of a family member who you are close to can be devestating to a person. And there is no way a coach or scout can know that through a basic interview process. Even an in depth one isn't likely to tell you.

Actually, the Pats have talked to all their picks and it makes a HUGE difference. Its called an INTERVIEW process. That's where they talk to you and see if you meet their qualifications. With your statements, I am going to assume that you've never actually had one or just don't understand the concepts.

Also, since you seem to be new to the BB/Pioli era, BB and Pioli have said that the reason they haven't drafted a LB earlier is that they haven't felt that the top end talent was good enough to handle their system. They've talked about re-evaluating their criteria, but they've said whenever they have, they have come to the same conclusions.

It was tragic for Claridge, I can't even imagine his loss. Buts lets not make him the next Urlacher or Ray Lewis, he was a 5th round pick, I don't think he was slotted for anything more than a reserve special teams role at best.

I heard you the first time with your expert inside knowledge about how the Patriots operate. I just think it is BS, several of their players have said that they were shocked to get picked by the Pats because they had no contact with the organization. I am sure they do their diligence, background checks, etc. Still not sure what interviews have to do with drafting LBs, I am sure you will expound... Did they interview Beisel or Duane Starks? Bethel Johnson (that would have been interesting)?

It is not foolproof, they are good not perfect. Spin it anyway you want, use analogies from university if it makes you feel better. The results are the same, no capable young LBs on the roster. I am sure they will add some fresh blood to the mix this year, it should be interesting.

 

[patsfan55]

It was tragic for Claridge, I can't even imagine his loss. Buts lets not make him the next Urlacher or Ray Lewis, he was a 5th round pick, I don't think he was slotted for anything more than a reserve special teams role at best.

I heard you the first time with your expert inside knowledge about how the Patriots operate. I just think it is BS, several of their players have said that they were shocked to get picked by the Pats because they had no contact with the organization. I am sure they do their diligence, background checks, etc. Still not sure what interviews have to do with drafting LBs, I am sure you will expound... Did they interview Beisel or Duane Starks? Bethel Johnson (that would have been interesting)?

It is not foolproof, they are good not perfect. Spin it anyway you want, use analogies from university if it makes you feel better. The results are the same, no capable young LBs on the roster. I am sure they will add some fresh blood to the mix this year, it should be interesting.

buddy, dont take it as offense dabruinz is always a lil...lets say aggressive when he disagrees lol

 

[Seymour93]

2000 isn't bad either. Bold for solid picks, italicized for decent picks...

1 Adrian Klemm Hawaii
3 J.R. Redmond Arizona State
4 Greg Robinson-Randall Michigan State
5 Dave Stachelski Boise State
5 Jeff Marriott Missouri
6 Antwan Harris Virginia
6 Tom Brady Michigan
6 David Nugent Purdue
7 Casey Tisdale New Mexico
7 Patrick Pass Georgia

That draft alone probably has produced more for us than all six Redskins drafts since 2000 has for Washington.

 

[everlong]

I remember reading an article about how BB interviewed players before the draft when he was an assistant for Parcells. He interviewed Ray Lewis and Lawyer Milloy and was very impressed by both of them because they not only knew what their position was supposed to do but they also knew what every other position should be doing and on top of that why they should be doing it.

I remember Holly saying they really liked Vilma because he was the same way. If Wilfork had gone earlier and Vilma had been available that year for us I bet we would have taken him.

I'm sure that's what the coaches and scouts want to see from all players but especially LBs because of how important they are in this system. But nobody is perfect. I'm sure Beisel and Brown showed them something they liked but they never really did get it.

I do think they need to take a shot on a young athletic talent before all the existing LBs are getting cheap coffee.

 

[DaBruinz]

It was tragic for Claridge, I can't even imagine his loss. Buts lets not make him the next Urlacher or Ray Lewis, he was a 5th round pick, I don't think he was slotted for anything more than a reserve special teams role at best.

Hmm..Would you care to show me where I was attempting to say that Claridge was going to be the next Urlacher or Ray Lewis? Oh wait, you can't because I did nothing of the sort. It seems to me that YOU are the one who is making people into greater things than they are. All I said was that I thought Claridge would have made the team had the tragedy of his brother dying not happened.

I heard you the first time with your expert inside knowledge about how the Patriots operate. I just think it is BS, several of their players have said that they were shocked to get picked by the Pats because they had no contact with the organization. I am sure they do their diligence, background checks, etc. Still not sure what interviews have to do with drafting LBs, I am sure you will expound...

Its not a matter of expert inside knowledge. Its a matter of public record. And had you followed the draft at all or things that Pats draftees have talked about, you'd know that the Pats, when they talk to these kids, talk shop. Again, it would seem you've never had an interview. Whenever I've interviewed for a job, I've always been given scenarios to see how I would react to a situation. This helps the "employer" see if you can think on your feet and test your knowledge at the same time.

Who are these players who were supposedly "SHOCKED" to get picked by the Patriots? The only time I remember players saying they were "shocked" was because the Patriots didn't call them on draft day until the pick was made. And, well, that happens for a variety of reasons, one of which is to keep other teams from inadvertently finding out who you are targeting.

Now, why are you being so ignorant to mentioned free agents in a thread talking about drafting players? Did they interview Beisel or Duane Starks? Bethel Johnson (that would have been interesting)?

What does it matter if they interviewed Bethel? My guess is that they did and they felt that he brought something to the table. Obviously, when push came to shove, Bethel couldn't handle the play-book. Its probably why he asked for a trade after his sophomore season.

It is not foolproof, they are good not perfect. Spin it anyway you want, use analogies from university if it makes you feel better. The results are the same, no capable young LBs on the roster. I am sure they will add some fresh blood to the mix this year, it should be interesting.

Never said it was fool-proof. And the only person who is doing any spinning here is you.

Also, how do you know that there are no capable young LBs on the roster? Because Pierre Woods and Corey Mays haven't because ALL-PRO LBs after their rookie season? Give me a break. Bruschi didn't become BRUSCHI until his 4th year. And he didn't become the great ILB we know until his 3rd year at THAT position. And those are words directly from him.

 

[TeamPats]

2000 isn't bad either. Bold for solid picks, italicized for decent picks...

1 Adrian Klemm Hawaii
3 J.R. Redmond Arizona State
4 Greg Robinson-Randall Michigan State
5 Dave Stachelski Boise State
5 Jeff Marriott Missouri
6 Antwan Harris Virginia
6 Tom Brady Michigan
6 David Nugent Purdue
7 Casey Tisdale New Mexico
7 Patrick Pass Georgia

That draft alone probably has produced more for us than all six Redskins drafts since 2000 has for Washington.

Just wanted to make one edit, J.R. while never being anything phenomenal had one of the first important games in this Team's history. I don't want to say he was a career contributor but he performed when we needed him most.

 

[cstjohn17]

buddy, dont take it as offense dabruinz is always a lil...lets say aggressive when he disagrees lol

No, no, it is more than that, he is the smartest person in the world and has never been wrong about anything. I think he actually works for the Patriots because he is always so insightful. Did you know that when you apply for a job usually their is an interview? Brilliant!

All part of an Internet forum, he is welcome to his opinion, the diversity of perspective is what makes it fun. Freedom of Speech!