We need to draft linebackers/DEs

[RayClay]

First two questions excerpts Reiss's mailbag:

"Here is Mike Vrabel's explanation for why the Patriots made the switch: "I think it gave us the best opportunity to set the edge over there on the left, and they weren't able to run much, and maybe get more pressure." I look at this decision as an indictment on Tully Banta-Cain, who finished without a tackle against the Chargers in the divisional round and was targeted by San Diego in that game"

"I thought Sunday night was one example of how the Patriots need an infusion of speed at linebacker."


"Looking ahead, much like the Patriots drafted Laurence Maroney to have younger, more athletic players to work with behind Corey Dillon, I think the team needs to do the same at linebacker."

 

[RayClay]

But Ray, we can't draft linebackers high.

We never have and never will.

 

[BelichickFan]

Does anyone think Pierre Woods has any chance to be a legit #3 OLB next year ? We need Colvin and Vrabel outside but one good OLB to rotate in and another usable desperation guy. Can Woods progress to either a rotation or desperation guy by next year ?

Inside is a f*cking mess. We may have no-one, we may have Bruschi. We HAVE TO sign a starting quality UFA like a London Fletcher and a rotation/time splitting guy.

 

[Seneschal2]

Absolutely. Banta-Cain will be evaluated along with everyone else. If it's deemed an upgrade is necessary at the DE/OLB position, I'm sure BB & Pioli will address it. Doesn't mean a rookie is going to step in and start however.

Same with the Safety position. Harrison will return for next season -- but how many more? Is Sanders his replacement? And Wilson's performance had declined...do we need an upgrade there?

Will Samuel depart? Maybe we go CB early -- who knows.

As a fan, the 3 areas I'd look at in round one are:

Safety
CB
DE/OLB

IMO, the value will be there in at least one of those positions where we pick.

For the purpose of this topic, three day one DE/OLB candidates who may fit are:

DE Victor Abiamiri, Notre Dame -- measured in at 6044 271
DE Anthony Spencer, Purdue -- measured in at 6024 266
DE Dan Bazuin, Central Michigan -- 6'3" 265

As we get closer to the draft, I'm sure they'll be others...

 

[RayClay]

Does anyone think Pierre Woods has any chance to be a legit #3 OLB next year ? We need Colvin and Vrabel outside but one good OLB to rotate in and another usable desperation guy. Can Woods progress to either a rotation or desperation guy by next year ?

Inside is a f*cking mess. We may have no-one, we may have Bruschi. We HAVE TO sign a starting quality UFA like a London Fletcher and a rotation/time splitting guy.

Davis might be retired and Izzo can't be far behind. Maybe we get decent backups and special teamers from the Woods, TBC and Mays group.

More old linebackers aren't the answer, although we may be forced into at least one experienced one as an emergency.

Patches only hold for so long, we need at least a couple young talented LBs and probably a vet or two.

 

[satz]

I think the future needs the 3 -4 to be tweaked a bit.Even though OLB will be same , i see a lighter faster ILB and a heavier Brushi type player or both can be lighter.
The biggest mismatch we face are the TE and we need lighter faster ILB to hang with 1 TE at the least. Eric alexander did that but i think he should have had some pratice then in the playoffs.

Brushi led the team in tackles ... i would keep seau + brushi in rotation with a another vet[donnie edwards lighter/faster] and younger LB to play inside due the evolution of the TE`s and no huddle offences.

 

[Seneschal2]

Does anyone think Pierre Woods has any chance to be a legit #3 OLB next year ? We need Colvin and Vrabel outside but one good OLB to rotate in and another usable desperation guy. Can Woods progress to either a rotation or desperation guy by next year ?

Sure he can. But if BB has the opportunity to draft someone with more potential than TBC or Woods -- he'll do it. Those two would then compete with the rookie. An upgrade's an upgrade at any position...

 

[AzPatsFan]

But Ray, we can't draft linebackers high.

We never have and never will.

We need to draft LBs and DEs... for 2008 - 2009.

They tried to get more speed in the center of the field, by putting former SS Alexander into the middle. Than Vrabel bumped TBC, and they split snaps until Colvin got hurt, and both played.

Alexander an UDFA and a ST player was faster, than Vrabel, but his inexperience proved a liability in coverage, and he was also exploited by the Colts running game up the middle.

BB usually floods the defense with DBs against a passing team, but we just didn't have any left for this game on this day. Harrison was out, Hawkins went down with injury, and Geno, Tebuckey, Mitchell, Gay and others were injured and on IR.

There also wasn't any other adequate ILBs, as Seau and Gardner were also on IR. Just too many injuries all in one area. Still they were only one minute away from another Super bowl.

The Patriots are congratulating the Colts for winning, and do not make excuses. I suspect that many defensive players like Bruschi, Colvin, Wilfork, and others were all playing with the flu, and it showed after a couple of quarters when their endurance just wasn't there. but for the half game the were able to play, they pulverized the Colts.

I still say the Patriots are in the unique position of not having to put a better player in any of the starting 25, including the specialists. That's not to say that the Pats can't upgrade in places, and they will, but there are competent starters everywhere including the reserves. This team is stronger than any other.

Wait till next year.

 

[RayClay]

We need to draft LBs and DEs... for 2008 - 2009.

They tried to get more speed in the center of the field, by putting former SS Alexander into the middle. Than Vrabel bumped TBC, and they split snaps until Colvin got hurt, and both played.

Alexander an UDFA and a ST player was faster, than Vrabel, but his inexperience proved a liability in coverage, and he was also exploited by the Colts running game up the middle.

BB usually floods the defense with DBs against a passing team, but we just didn't have any left for this game on this day. Harrison was out, Hawkins went down with injury, and Geno, Tebuckey, Mitchell, Gay and others were injured and on IR.

There also wasn't any other adequate ILBs, as Seau and Gardner were also on IR. Just too many injuries all in one area. Still they were only one minute away from another Super bowl.

The Patriots are congratulating the Colts for winning, and do not make excuses. I suspect that many defensive players like Bruschi, Colvin, Wilfork, and others were all playing with the flu, and it showed after a couple of quarters when their endurance just wasn't there. but for the half game the were able to play, they pulverized the Colts.

I still say the Patriots are in the unique position of not having to put a better player in any of the starting 25, including the specialists. That's not to say that the Pats can't upgrade in places, and they will, but there are competent starters everywhere including the reserves. This team is stronger than any other.

Wait till next year.

If you mean we needed to draft some young LBs in 2003 I agree with you. Fact of the matter is we had to replace one special teamer on the outside who'd been exposed with a specialteamer on the inside who wasn't ready.

In the AFC championship game.

This is without a LB significantly injured in the second half of the season.



As the saying goes, "the race isn't always to the swift, but that's the way to bet".

 

[ajmitch81]

Paul Posluszny could be worth taking a 1st rounder on. He was rated ahead of AJ Hawk in 06 by many but chose to return to school after hurting himself in a Bowl game. He's been rather unimpressive in 2006 but he's still a player that could fit well in the NE system.

Beyond that LaMarr Woodley from Michigan could be a perfect hybrid DE/OLB in the mold of Kemerion Wimbley or Shawn Steroidman (except he has legit talent w/o having to turn to steroids).

It will be interesting to see what they do come draft day, and if they don't retain Samuel a CB is a must one way or another. Sign London Fletcher, draft Posluszny and a Safety (LaRon Landry?) in round one, a WR/CB in round two, and Woodley in round three. I'd be happy with that scenario and I'm sure the rest of the NFL would not!

 

[ayjackson]

I think if BB can find some value at DB in the first round, that would be a good way to go. I think LB will be handles in free agency however. Two guys I like are Scott Shanle of the Saints and Patrick Chukwurah of the Broncos.

I didn't see a lot of Shanle this year, but I know he came a long way under Parcels in prior years and think he would do a job for us in the middle.

Chukwurah was a rush DE in nickel packages for the Broncos. He screams SOLB to me though.

 

[RayClay]

Paul Posluszny could be worth taking a 1st rounder on. He was rated ahead of AJ Hawk in 06 by many but chose to return to school after hurting himself in a Bowl game. He's been rather unimpressive in 2006 but he's still a player that could fit well in the NE system.

Beyond that LaMarr Woodley from Michigan could be a perfect hybrid DE/OLB in the mold of Kemerion Wimbley or Shawn Steroidman (except he has legit talent w/o having to turn to steroids).

It will be interesting to see what they do come draft day, and if they don't retain Samuel a CB is a must one way or another. Sign London Fletcher, draft Posluszny and a Safety (LaRon Landry?) in round one, a WR/CB in round two, and Woodley in round three. I'd be happy with that scenario and I'm sure the rest of the NFL would not!

Woodley is the type of player we need to draft IMO. If he is successful, he would be really expensive in FA. This is the Willie McGinest "type" you have to draft.

I think you can find combo OLB/ILB players for our system like Vrabel and Bruschi among high effort tweeners, but the bullmoose rushers come from the draft.

I'd still draft that type because Bruschi Izzo Davis are on the down side.

Let's get some youngsters in while we have both Bruschi and Vrabel to train them.

 

[lutontown_fc]

Never say never, RayClay.

Who'd have predicted that we would have gone RB/WR last year - maybe some, but not many.

I dont think we'll draft a player ahead of his worth just because we have a need at LBer - the whole of FA has to play out aswell.

I think Bruschi will assume the Ted Johnson role in the team - we need to get younger in the LBer corps, without a doubt.

I trust Belioli to make the right choices.

NM

 

[AzPatsFan]

Does anyone think Pierre Woods has any chance to be a legit #3 OLB next year ? We need Colvin and Vrabel outside but one good OLB to rotate in and another usable desperation guy. Can Woods progress to either a rotation or desperation guy by next year ?

Inside is a f*cking mess. We may have no-one, we may have Bruschi. We HAVE TO sign a starting quality UFA like a London Fletcher and a rotation/time splitting guy.

Pierre Woods was a first round draft pick projection after his freshman and sophomore year performances. He got into a conflict with the coaches and they could substitute All Americans David Harris and Lamar Woodley, projected first rounders, this year. Normally, Pierre would have transfered, but he shut his mouth, and played STs, and occasional depth snaps, showing determination and maturity. So he was sat down and forgotten, by everybody but Scott and Bill. I for one was not surprised that he beat out Mincey.

The rebuilding of the LBs is already in full progress; Y'all don't see it, because its not finished. Belichick planned on having a LB corps of the following going into 2006:

ILBs: Bruschi 33, Besiel 27, Gardner 29, and Vrabel as the fourth, if needed.

STs: LBs Alexander 26, Gardner 29, and Izzo 32. Although Izzo's job might go to Mitchell 27 ,a replica of Jerod Cherry as a SS, not an LB.

OLBs: Belichcik planned on Vrabel 31, Colvin 29, TBC 27, and Mincey 23, as the ST and development type. Perhasp Cahd brown woiuld stick as an OLB reserve.

When the dust and IR injuries settled, he let Beisel go, Gardner was on IR, and he signed Seau as a patch fix for a year.

Injuries prevented him from replacing Don Davis and Larry Izzo. But their replacements are on the roster NOW, and have already proven themselves. Mays, Woods, and Alexander have lots of ST tackles. Mitchell, Tebuckey, and Gardner are in the wings, and have proven track records as ST stars.

In 2007, they will probably have two or three starters over thirty, as in 2006 but the reserves will be better and the ST LBs will be much younger, already proven and faster. The pipeline of development types will be much richer too, to take starts in 2008 and 2009.

 

[RayClay]

Pierre Woods was a first round draft pick projection after his freshman and sophomore year performances. He got into a conflict with the coaches and they could substitute All Americans David Harris and Lamar Woodley, projected first rounders, this year. Normally, Pierre would have transfered, but he shut his mouth, and played STs, and occasional depth snaps, showing determination and maturity. So he was sat down and forgotten, by everybody but Scott and Bill. I for one was not surprised that he beat out Mincey.

The rebuilding of the LBs is already in full progress; Y'all don't see it, because its not finished. Belichick planned on having a LB corps of the following going into 2006:

ILBs: Bruschi 33, Besiel 27, Gardner 29, and Vrabel as the fourth, if needed.

STs: LBs Alexander 26, Gardner 29, and Izzo 32. Although Izzo's job might go to Mitchell 27 ,a replica of Jerod Cherry as a SS, not an LB.

OLBs: Belichcik planned on Vrabel 31, Colvin 29, TBC 27, and Mincey 23, as the ST and development type. Perhasp Cahd brown woiuld stick as an OLB reserve.

When the dust and IR injuries settled, he let Beisel go, Gardner was on IR, and he signed Seau as a patch fix for a year.

Injuries prevented him from replacing Don Davis and Larry Izzo. But their replacements are on the roster NOW, and have already proven themselves. Mays, Woods, and Alexander have lots of ST tackles. Mitchell, Tebuckey, and Gardner are in the wings, and have proven track records as ST stars.

In 2007, they will probably have two or three starters over thirty, as in 2006 but the reserves will be better and the ST LBs will be much younger, already proven and faster. The pipeline of development types will be much richer too, to take starts in 2008 and 2009.

Bruschi 33, Besiel 27, Gardner 29, and Vrabel as the fourth, if needed.

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[RayClay]

So I guess we're all set at LB.

Any undersized tight ends available?

 

[VJCPatriot]

Drafting a fast sideline to sideline ILB would really bolster the pats LB group. They also need to identify and sign a talented free agent linebacker who can start right away. IMO they need to find the next Colvin and aggressively pursue him.

 

[DaBruinz]

For the person who mentioned Posluszny not having a great year, make sure you consider 2 things. The first is that he was coming back from a torn ACL. The second is that he moved to MLB from OLB. Its why I think that he could easily become an ILB for the Pats. And he would have one of the best teachers for making that transition in Bruschi.

 

[ATippett56]

For the person who mentioned Posluszny not having a great year, make sure you consider 2 things. The first is that he was coming back from a torn ACL. The second is that he moved to MLB from OLB. Its why I think that he could easily become an ILB for the Pats. And he would have one of the best teachers for making that transition in Bruschi.

I'll take Patrick Willis anyday over Paul Posluszny. Willis is a tackling machine.

 

[SeanBruschi54]

I'll take Patrick Willis anyday over Paul Posluszny. Willis is a tackling machine.

I say draft both back to back.