Two non-Patriots I blame for Sunday's loss

[ctpatsfan77]

If you're going to start apportioning blame, here are two more people who shouldn't be overlooked:

* Bobby Wade, for his cheap shot on Rodney Harrison at TEN.

* Deion Branch, not only for being a prima donna about his negotiations, but apparently trying to sabotage the Pats' attempts to sign Javon Walker, too. [As much as I hate the way Vinatieri left, this was far worse.]

 

[jcdavey]

If you're going to start apportioning blame, here are two more people who shouldn't be overlooked:

* Bobby Wade, for his cheap shot on Rodney Harrison at TEN.

* Deion Branch, not only for being a prima donna about his negotiations, but apparently trying to sabotage the Pats' attempts to sign Javon Walker, too. [As much as I hate the way Vinatieri left, this was far worse.]

i'd say branch is the least of the worries when you blow a 21-3 lead, and let a team score 32 2nd half points and give up 6 rushing tds in 2 games

ya gotta be able to stop the run in the playoffs, and run the ball, it didn't really seem like this pats defense was as good as past pats defenses aside from samuel

pats are as mentally tough as they've ever been and a true embodiment of the word 'team' but their D IMO just isn't as good as it used to be.

 

[Fogbuster]

i'd say branch is the least of the worries when you blow a 21-3 lead, and let a team score 32 2nd half points and give up 6 rushing tds in 2 games

ya gotta be able to stop the run in the playoffs, and run the ball, it didn't really seem like this pats defense was as good as past pats defenses aside from samuel

pats are as mentally tough as they've ever been and a true embodiment of the word 'team' but their D IMO just isn't as good as it used to be.

Pats need help at the linebacker position. Brusk is not close to what he was; Vrabel has slowed and lacks quickness; TB Cain, well, he's just not a starter; Colvin is OK, not great.

We got by with good efforts from the front 3 for most of the season, but by the time the Indy playoff came, they showed they can not do it alone. When Seymour got hobbled the D got very soft; even when he was in there, playing at 50% of his ability (due to his sprained ankle).

We need help at LB, big time.

We also need a solid strong *healthy* running back. Corey is too old and fragile. KFaulk I love, but he too is getting up and is also easily injured. Maroney is still a question mark. Undoubtedly good in the open field but lacking in power to hit the line with any authority. We need a solid power back, like Jones-Drew, Addai, or the guys on the Bears. We need a cannon-ball to launch into the line behind our offensive L.

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[frankiesfly]

Pats need help at the linebacker position. Brusk is not close to what he was; Vrabel has slowed and lacks quickness; TB Cain, well, he's just not a starter; Colvin is OK, not great.

We got by with good efforts from the front 3 for most of the season, but by the time the Indy playoff came, they showed they can not do it alone. When Seymour got hobbled the D got very soft; even when he was in there, playing at 50% of his ability (due to his sprained ankle).

We need help at LB, big time.

We also need a solid strong *healthy* running back. Corey is too old and fragile. KFaulk I love, but he too is getting up and is also easily injured. Maroney is still a question mark. Undoubtedly good in the open field but lacking in power to hit the line with any authority. We need a solid power back, like Jones-Drew, Addai, or the guys on the Bears. We need a cannon-ball to launch into the line behind our offensive L.

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From pre season up to the Cincy game, i thought Maroney was going to be one of the top rookie producers in the leauge. I know he had injuries, but to me he is still a question mark also. Corey to me just had his last productive season. Brady litterally had the whole offense on his shoulders with no running game. You cant win a superbowl without a run game. Period. We kind of got lucky against the Chargers, and our luck ran out in Indy.

 

[oldskool138]

From pre season up to the Cincy game, i thought Maroney was going to be one of the top rookie producers in the leauge. I know he had injuries, but to me he is still a question mark also. Corey to me just had his last productive season. Brady litterally had the whole offense on his shoulders with no running game. You cant win a superbowl without a run game. Period. We kind of got lucky against the Chargers, and our luck ran out in Indy.

We won two SB without a running game. Unless you think Antowain Smith was a premier back?

 

[jcdavey]

We won two SB without a running game. Unless you think Antowain Smith was a premier back?

yeah i tend to agree that stopping the run in the red zone is far more important to the pats than even having a great running game.

 

[teamplay]

We won two SB without a running game. Unless you think Antowain Smith was a premier back?

Check your logic: you equate a running game with a premier back. In both of those SB years, we RAN the ball, despite having a servicable, not premier, back! This year we had an uncomfortable number of games where we flat out conceded the run game -- never a good sign!

 

[frankiesfly]

We won two SB without a running game. Unless you think Antowain Smith was a premier back?

I didnt look at any stats or anything, but would think he did more than anything Maroney or Dillion did this year. No i dont think Smith was a premier back.

 

[frankiesfly]

Check your logic: you equate a running game with a premier back. In both of those SB years, we RAN the ball, despite having a servicable, not premier, back! This year we had an uncomfortable number of games where we flat out conceded the run game -- never a good sign!

you got it

 

[oldskool138]

Check your logic: you equate a running game with a premier back. In both of those SB years, we RAN the ball, despite having a servicable, not premier, back! This year we had an uncomfortable number of games where we flat out conceded the run game -- never a good sign!

I use the term "premier" lightly. Antowain Smith only averaged 3.9 a carry in a Pats uniform. Compare that to Corey Dillon 4.2 (a number dragged down a bit by age and lack of carries this year) so far in a Pats uni. In '04 he averaged 4.7. Antowain Smith averaged 4.0 in '01, and 3.5 in '03.

 

[Patriot_in_NY]

If you're going to start apportioning blame, here are two more people who shouldn't be overlooked:

* Bobby Wade, for his cheap shot on Rodney Harrison at TEN.

* Deion Branch, not only for being a prima donna about his negotiations, but apparently trying to sabotage the Pats' attempts to sign Javon Walker, too. [As much as I hate the way Vinatieri left, this was far worse.]

Agree that the shot was cheap, but injuries are inevitable and part of the game. Anyone can get injured on any one play, so cheap shot or not, what makes his injury any more important then Faulk's, Colvin's, Bruschi's flu (all which had direct impacts on THIS game. Wade is a d*ck, but it didn't cost us the season

100% percent agree about BRANCH.

i'd say branch is the least of the worries when you blow a 21-3 lead, and let a team score 32 2nd half points and give up 6 rushing tds in 2 games

Branch's antics have everything to do with this game and outcome. Obviously (to me), coming into the season, we fully expected Branch to be the #1 guy and our off-season moves looked to secure Reche to replace Givens and have the rest of the WR continue to be servicable while we brought CJ into the fold. Which, had it worked out, I beleive we'd have won 14 games and without question be headed to Miami. Obviously that did not happen

Still, we almost got there even though we struggled early on (season wise) in the passing game. Now, as the season went on (picking up Gaffney was great), we were able cobble together a pretty descent and serviceable passing attack (not great). Good enough to gloss over the fact the WE HAD NO #1 GUY back there. Having a solid #1 will absolutely change the way you defense TB and our offense. I think alot of people forget that.

Well Sunday, the chickens came back to roost. With our defense collapsing around us, we got in the one place we could ill afford to be: in "Shootout mode" vs. Peyton and his group of #1's (backed with a great TE). TB was almost up to the challenge, but with receivers dropping ball and the D totally blanketing our "average" receivers and keying on our strengths (at TE), I think he went into the "early season" overdependence on the TE mode. Which caused him to miss Heath underneath as he forced one to Watson for the pick. Our best hope come on a totally botched defensive play that we failed to capitalize on, and that should tell you something.

So yeah, Deion's antics ultimately came back to hurt us, in a big way. Thats my opinion anyway.

 

[Gunnails]

I would not blame any one person, the Colts are the reason the Pats are not going to SB 41, if you have to blame one person then I would think that Manning would be at the top of the list.

 

[iguide]

As far as the running game goes and it disappearing son and so on, a lot of it does depend on the players called for the skills of the backs. Maroney showed signs early on that he "could be" the power and speed back of the future. His problems started after he had some success in the Cincinnati game and he started to look for hole and dance behind the LOS. I think in Cinci when he had that success he started to think he needed to look for holes instead of going through small ones and making them. He ad some big runs in Cinci and I think that was what he was looking for, those home run runs. Instead of just grinding it out ant taking big runs as they came. With a year of training this winter with Ivan he should correct that, and develop into what he has the potential to be. One of the best in the league. Dillon could be servable for another year if he takes a pay cut. Otherwise he has got to go. And as far as Faulk is concerned I thought that we had a potential replacement for him that could be developed in that kid we had last summer Cobb, but he signed on to Miami practice squad after we cut him. So he might still be available. As far as I am concerned Pass can take a Pass on his way down the rd to some other place. He never impressed me and he is soft. Bring Evans back as a blocking full back.

 

[Patriot_in_NY]

I would not blame any one person, the Colts are the reason the Pats are not going to SB 41, if you have to blame one person then I would think that Manning would be at the top of the list.

True.............. But only because they "defensively" understood the position we were in and defensed us the way they should have. Mangina tried to do the exact same thing, but given that Gaffeny stepped up and played like a #1 that game, they couldn't take advantage of it.

Same thing in SD, the WR's needed to step up and and play like #1's, and they did (both at various times in the game). SD couldn't defense that and we were ABLE to take advantage of the mistakes SD made, mostly cuz our WR's were playing above themselves.

Guess what? Eventually #2s and #3s will eventually look and play like #2s and #3s, which is what happened in Indy. Credit Indy though, they did what they had to and made our guys ineffective (pretty much), which allowed mostly single coverage allowed them to focus on other areas - like the run, our TE's.

I contend that whole Branch debacle ultimately altered they way we had envisioned our offense to be this year. We band-aided it nicely and we got farther than I though we might, but it is what it is.

 

[Fogbuster]

We won two SB without a running game. Unless you think Antowain Smith was a premier back?

But teams catch up. They learn. The NFL is so competitive, coaches know they're history if they don't change, adapt, and learn how to defeat new twists and unique applications, such as what BB & Co threw out from 2001-2005. Trying to win without a running game is pushing lady luck far too much, especially in this day. Just look how the Indy D improved so much in the last month by changing their scheming and tactics. You could say they out-Belichicked BB.

 

[Fogbuster]

From pre season up to the Cincy game, i thought Maroney was going to be one of the top rookie producers in the leauge. I know he had injuries, but to me he is still a question mark also. Corey to me just had his last productive season. Brady litterally had the whole offense on his shoulders with no running game. You cant win a superbowl without a run game. Period. We kind of got lucky against the Chargers, and our luck ran out in Indy.

I agree. Maroney came out the gate very nicely, then he swooned. He looked "light" and easy to knock down after mid-season.

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