Run and Shoot - are Pats at their best with empty backfield?

[Double TE]

Is it me or are the Pats at their best when they go empty backfield old style run and shoot offense and allow Brady to sling it. I think slowing the game down and using more standard formations actually plays into the opponent's strategy. I mean if I am the D coordinator I'd much rather see Ridley or Woodhead get the ball on say 3rd and three rather than seeing Brady drop back and throw to his plethora of weapons.

I realize that it gets tighter in the playoffs and of course you have to mix in runs but why not just let Brady sling it? Its worked well for 10 years. Those 3rd down Woodhead runs were annoying.

Thoughts?

 

[RelocatedPatFan]

At the end of the day, Balance between passing and rushing is the best case scenario. When teams get 1 dimensional, they can be planned for. Plus, our O line isn't up to the task of pass blocking on a continual basis (well not yet).

The run, will keep the defenses honest and lead to bigger plays for the offense in general.

 

[Kontradiction]

The game plan should be 60/40 pass to run ratio on a weekly basis.

 

[Gronkandez]

Yeah it works a lot of the time, however the O-Line is still a work in progress and Brady is getting older. Using the Run and Shoot is asking for Brady to get teed off on.
An effective run game also helps the defense rest. This is especially important for the D-Lineman like Wilfolk and Jones who play virtually every down.

 

[Double TE]

Can't they use screens and passes to Welker to basically duplicate the running game? Going no huddle / run and shoot keeps the D on the field and tires them out too. IDK its worked for 10 years and suddenly NE is reinventing itself?

Vs. AZ when they had to pass they were successful. Maybe when Vereen returns they'll do more of that?

 

[letekro]

Can't they use screens and passes to Welker to basically duplicate the running game? Going no huddle / run and shoot keeps the D on the field and tires them out too. IDK its worked for 10 years and suddenly NE is reinventing itself?

Vs. AZ when they had to pass they were successful. Maybe when Vereen returns they'll do more of that?

This works against crappy teams, but against the iron of the league it has proved to be unsuccessful. Eventually, we will have to be able to make the Giants, Ravens, 49ers, etc. pay for flooding the field with DBs.

 

[JJDChE]

Yup, it doesn't work against teams that can get to Brady without blitzing.

 

[DocHoliday]

Teams finally have 5-6 capable DBs due to the evolution of passing in football in general.

Remember - it always pays to be ahead of the curve!

 

[livinginthe past]

Is it me or .......

Yes, i'm afraid it is just you.

 

[BSR]

Is it me or are the Pats at their best when they go empty backfield old style run and shoot offense and allow Brady to sling it. I think slowing the game down and using more standard formations actually plays into the opponent's strategy. I mean if I am the D coordinator I'd much rather see Ridley or Woodhead get the ball on say 3rd and three rather than seeing Brady drop back and throw to his plethora of weapons.

I realize that it gets tighter in the playoffs and of course you have to mix in runs but why not just let Brady sling it? Its worked well for 10 years. Those 3rd down Woodhead runs were annoying.

Thoughts?

What do you mean best? If you mean racking up fantasy points, then yes. If you mean championships, then no. When the Patriots were at their best winning championships they were a balanced team and Brady spread the ball around.

 

[Rob0729]

When the Pats are in an empty backfield offense all the time, people complain the Pats are too predictable and don't run the ball. When they try to have commitment to the run, people complain they don't spread the defense out and toss the ball all around the field.

The Pats' new philosophy worked brilliantly the first week and not so much this past Sunday. I say they continue with this philosophy even if they have to mix it up a little more. Brady is a terrific play action QB. He can sell it better than any QB currently in the NFL. That will make up for the deficiencies on the offensive line and the loss of Hernandez. To do play action effectively and frequently, you have to commit to the run and be successful at it. If teams know you can't or won't run the ball, they will not bite on the play action. i think the struggles we have now with it will pay dividends in December and January.

 

[Double TE]

Yes, i'm afraid it is just you.

cold real cold

 

[Double TE]

What do you mean best? If you mean racking up fantasy points, then yes. If you mean championships, then no. When the Patriots were at their best winning championships they were a balanced team and Brady spread the ball around.

Got them to the SB? If Gronk were healthy we'd likely have won.

 

[BradyManny]

Belichick is trying his best to create an amoeba offense. He wants TEs and WRs that can block and run the whole route tree. That's part of the reason why it seems he is phasing out the "slot" receiver in this offense. It seems he feels its too one-dimensional. Hernandez can play slot. Hernandez can play outside. Hernandez can play inline. Hernandez can play in the backfield.

So I firmly believe he's working towards that goal: an offense with such versatile skill players that they can line up in any personnel package and run any play in the playbook at any time. To a point.

The missing piece is the RB that can do it all. We've seen Ridley run hard this year. Can he also run routes, make catches out of the backfield?

The truth is that Shane Vereen is the guy that I'm betting they targeted as their amoeba RB. He's gotta get healthy, get on the field, and push Ridley for reps.

 

[JJDChE]

Got them to the SB? If Gronk were healthy we'd likely have won.

I think there'd be a better chance that we would have won if we activated Ridley and gave him the ball 15-20 times.

 

[Bonzo]

Someone else already mentioned it, but it seems the improved defensive performance is due, at least in part, to having won the TOP in both games. I for one would like to see this trend continue.

 

[Bonzo]

The truth is that Shane Vereen is the guy that I'm betting they targeted as their amoeba RB. He's gotta get healthy, get on the field, and push Ridley for reps.

For all this chatter about transitioning to a 3WR offense in the immediate future, I'm wondering if we won't see more 2RB instead.

 

[BSR]

Got them to the SB? If Gronk were healthy we'd likely have won.

If we could have run the ball at the end of the game to burn the clock we would have most likely have won as well.

The reality is this style of offense often falls flat in the playoffs. The best offenses are ones that do many things well and aren't overly dependent on a few offensive weapons.

 

[Dragda]

the run and shoot it a very specific formation with a RB in the backfield. I don't recall seeing us in that formation very often if at all.

 

[fumbrunner]

Is it me or are the Pats at their best when they go empty backfield old style run and shoot offense and allow Brady to sling it.

When did the run and shoot NOT have running backs??

The run and shoot offense is an offensive system for American football which emphasizes receiver motion and on-the-fly adjustments of receivers' routes in response to different defenses.

The Run & Shoot system uses a formation consisting of one running back and between two and four wide receivers. This system makes extensive use of receiver motion (having a receiver suddenly change position by running left or right, parallel to the line of scrimmage, just before the ball is snapped), both to create advantageous mismatches with the opposing defensive players and to help reveal what coverage the defense is using.

The basic idea behind the Run & Shoot is a flexible offense that adjusts "on the fly," as the receivers are free to adjust their routes as they are running them in response to the defensive coverage employed. The quarterback, as a result, also has to read and react to the defense's coverages in a more improvised manner than with other offensive systems.

In the purest form of the offense, the proper complement would consist of two wide receivers lined up on the outside edges of the formation and two "slotbacks" (running backs who are capable of catching the ball as well as running with it, e.g. Ricky Sanders and Richard Johnson of the USFL's Houston Gamblers) lined up just outside and behind the two offensive tackles.


Many of the National Football League teams that used the Run & Shoot in the early 1990s used true wide receivers in all four receiving positions. The types of running backs used varied from smaller backs who could catch passes to big, bruising running backs who could run with power. The frequent passing plays run out of this formation tend to spread out the defense's players. If repeated pass plays work, the defense is not as prepared for running plays; running the ball between the offensive tackles, or just off-tackle, is now possible and more likely to succeed.

Not sure about you, but I like that they use TEs. The traditional run and shoot does not use TEs much. D lines like the Giants would have a hayday. We don't really have the personnel at WR for this type of offense either.