Josh McDaniels Handicapped This Patriots Team

[PaulNEPats]

The lack of running plays in the 2nd half was troubling. You know the Defense is gassed, how can you not kill some time to get the defense a breather?

 

[maverick4]

McDaniels does not have game awareness. He does not see how offense, defense, and special teams are intertwined and must work collectively. His play-calling suggests he had no clue our D was toast. This awareness problem is on top of his logistical and intelligence problems.

 

[JoeSixPat]

I'll need to review the game before going along with this thread's premise.

I've been nearly as critical of our playcalling as NEM - at least early in the season - but since the Miami game his adjustments have been to my liking... more spread offense, more no huddle -

... basically doing all the things you need to do to keep D's off balance and mask offensive deficiencies.

My assessment of this game is that we lost because we didn't make enough plays when we needed them to, and the Defense, perhaps still feeling the effects of the flu, were worn down and gave up big plays when it counted most.

I'm sorry, but while Josh may have missed some opportunities with playcalling, that's not his fault.

In many ways he and Brady and the rest of the offense had this team peaking when it mattered most. That counts for a lot in my mind.

If Josh hadn't grown, evolved and adjusted through this season I'd call for his removal. But he did adjust and he adjusted well and that is enough for me, especially if its enough for BB.

 

[Rob0729]

Rob, those are nice numbers, but I respectfully disagree. The talent level of the 2006 Patriots was so much higher than Weiss' 2003 team that it's not fair to compare. A more just comparison would be Weiss' 2004 team, when Dillon joined. Even then, it's not an accurate comparison because the Pats have loaded the offense with 2005 and 2006 drafts.

But even with your numbers, you conveniently exclude the fact that Weiss' teams always had more efficient red zone numbers compared to yardage numbers, which is indicative of good play calling. McDaniels' teams have the opposite effect, which is indicative of lots of talent but questionable play calling.

The talent level in 2004 was clearly better than this year on offense. Not even close. Dillon lead the league in rushing yards per game and was almost the league leader in rushing. The WRs were clearly better. I would say the o-lines were a wash and the TEs were better this year.

In 2003, the RBs were worse, but the WRs were clearly better. Since we pretty much abandoned the run that year, that is a significant advantage. The o-line was pretty much on par with this year's o-line. I would say that the two offenses are a lot closer than you think in terms of talent.

As for loading the drafts with offensive players in 2005 and 2006. How many of those draft picks made an impact though? Mankins has, but he isn't a significant upgrade from Andruzzi. Kazcur had an injury plagued year and did not play well when he was in until the very end. David Thomas had a couple of great games and then was non-existent. Chad Jackson was MIA all year. Maroney had a good year, but seems to have hit a rookie or injury wall. O'Callahan did well in a few games, but then got injured and was never heard from again. Garrett Mills wasn't there. So with all those draft picks, few were making an impact this year. Just because we drafted a lot of offensive players, doesn't mean they were impact players this year.

Again, people want to have it both ways. When talking about Brady everyone talks about how bad his WRs are. When talking about McDaniels they say this is one of the most talented offenses we had. It doesn't work that way.

 

[DarrylS]

BB should stop listening to his IPOD and pay attention to the game, oh I forgot he listens in on everything and ultimately is responsible.

Would we all think his play calling was brilliant if Caldwell did not drop the pass or if Brady saw Evans and we won?? To blame an O coordinator, in a team sport begs the issue and is against everything we know about the Patriots.

The D could not stop the Colts, if they did and we could have then continued in our game plan things would have been different. We will never know, but I suspect that so many of our guys were gassed because they were dehydrated because of the flu.

To blame McDaniels for this loss, is akin to blaming Mike Woicjik for Rodney Harrisons broken sholder blade and sprained ACL. It does not follow, coaches coach and players execute, bottom line we did not execute and control the game after we were up 21-3. Our D could not get off the field, and when the O came in the Indy D was so fresh and fired up we could not do much.

 

[JackBauer]

Mankins has, but he isn't a significant upgrade from Andruzzi.

You must be joking.

It's also interesting how you conveniently leave out Gostkowski.

 

[Patriot Missile]

Holding the ball for all of 1:23 seconds after that first 9 minute drive by the Colts should of been plenty of time for the defense to get a rest lol. Not to mention having Hobbs run it back 80 yards to give the offense the short field. Funny how that worked out.

 

[Rob0729]

You must be joking.

It's also interesting how you conveniently leave out Gostkowski.

Andruzzi was a very good left guard. I don't think Mankins is that big of an upgrade. He is definitely an upgrade, but it wasn't like Mankins is worlds better than Andruzzi. Mankins is a Pro Bowl caliber guard and Andruzzi was an almost caliber guard.

Didn't convienently leave out Gostkowski. He was irrelevent in the arguement. The discussion was about OFFENSIVE PLAYERS drafted. Kickers don't play offense.

 

[oldskool138]

Sorry, but he didnt adjust. In the latter stages of the season, our defense bailed him out. He didnt adjust at all yesterday, in fact he was taken to school, once again.

No, McD did adjust. He went away from the run in the second half (the exact same thing he did in the first Indy game). His problem is not lack of adjustment. It is adjusting incorrectly.

 

[JoeSixPat]

Sorry, but he didnt adjust. In the latter stages of the season, our defense bailed him out. He didnt adjust at all yesterday, in fact he was taken to school, once again.

I'm withholding my opinion on yesterday's game for now. He most certainly DID adjust following the Miami game (or at least someone on the team or in the organization did)

I have some concerns about the playcalling yesterday but the lack of execution is what really killed us.

Suffice to say, I trust that if BB thinks we need a new OC, we'll have one. I highly doubt McDaniels has compromising photos of BB that is allowing him to keep his job.

 

[JackBauer]

Andruzzi was a very good left guard. I don't think Mankins is that big of an upgrade. He is definitely an upgrade, but it wasn't like Mankins is worlds better than Andruzzi. Mankins is a Pro Bowl caliber guard and Andruzzi was an almost caliber guard.

Your memory must be pretty spotty. Andruzzi was a LIABILITY in pass protection. Mankins is playing at an All-Pro level.

Didn't convienently leave out Gostkowski. He was irrelevent in the arguement. The discussion was about OFFENSIVE PLAYERS drafted. Kickers don't play offense.

I, too, like to split hairs.

 

[maverick4]

NEM, those time of possession stats (on pg 3) are startling. It shows McDaniels either lacked awareness that our D was tanked, or that he knew but was so inept that he couldn't do anything to help keep the offense on the field longer.

For all the critical talk about our defense, the fact is they came up HUGE late in the fourth quarter, forced Manning into a 3-and-out, but McDaniels pissed the chance away by not even generating a single first down that could likely have clinched the game.

.

 

[BelichickFan]

What handicapped us was our best WR being a low level #2. Which hurt the passing game and the run game. We need better, you know, TALENT at WR. Someone who can get open for Brady and make the defense respect the passing game - that would open everything up.

 

[maverick4]

What handicapped us was our best WR being a low level #2. Which hurt the passing game and the run game. We need better, you know, TALENT at WR. Someone who can get open for Brady and make the defense respect the passing game - that would open everything up.

People can either make excuses, or simply get the job done. We had an average to below-average running back for 4 years, but still managed to win a few championships. Also, last I checked, our receivers going into the Colts game were leaders in playoff yards and receptions...

Lack of receivers doesn't explain why we completely abandoned the run (aside from a few crappy draw plays), and sat Faulk on the bench for most of the game. Lack of receivers doesn't explain why we had 12 men in a huddle, why Heath Evans was our RB on the final drive, and why we couldn't generate a single first down after our defense made a heroic stop near the end of the game.

 

[Rob0729]

Your memory must be pretty spotty. Andruzzi was a LIABILITY in pass protection. Mankins is playing at an All-Pro level.



I, too, like to split hairs.

I am not splitting hairs. I was responding to a post about all the offensive weapons drafted the last two years. Gostkowski is not an offensive weapon. Gostkowski was a great pick, but he just factor into the equation on weapons at Josh McDaniels' disposal.

People complain about how many times this year we have had to settle for field goals. If you like, I can say McDaniels has done a great job utilizing Gostkowski this year. But that goes from the point of the original arguement.

I don't know if Mankins is an All-Pro yet. Mankins still makes a few mental mistakes that have hurt us. Andruzzi wasn't a liability in pass coverage. He was decent at it. Brady had pretty good protection in 2003 and 2004.

 

[PATSNUTme]

I expected to see dumb ass threads today, with dumb ass posts. This thread met my expectations.

 

[maverick4]

Patsnut, why do you have such blind faith in McDaniels, or a refusal to deal with reality? To call this thread 'dumb ass' reveals your inability to see the symptoms indicative of a poor offensive coordinator. Additionally, your post comes across as crass and in poor taste, especially for a 'mod'.

 

[Rob0729]

NEM, those time of possession stats (on pg 3) are startling. It shows McDaniels either lacked awareness that our D was tanked, or that he knew but was so inept that he couldn't do anything to help keep the offense on the field longer.

For all the critical talk about our defense, the fact is they came up HUGE late in the fourth quarter, forced Manning into a 3-and-out, but McDaniels pissed the chance away by not even generating a single first down that could likely have clinched the game.

.

And who is more at fault for that late fourth quarter drive to fail? McDaniels or the 12th player who took the field and got in the huddle? That 5 yards killed the drive.

 

[maverick4]

And who is more at fault for that late fourth quarter drive to fail? McDaniels or the 12th player who took the field and got in the huddle? That 5 yards killed the drive.

Logistical errors like this usually involve the fault of the coordinator. It is reminiscent of the Pete Carroll era.

 

[oldskool138]

Patsnut, why do you have such blind faith in McDaniels, or a refusal to deal with reality? To call this thread 'dumb ass' reveals your inability to see the symptoms indicative of a poor offensive coordinator. Additionally, your post comes across as crass and in poor taste, especially for a 'mod'.

Yeah, NEM presented some solid evidence to the court of PatsFans. McD didn't get the job done yesterday and screwed and already gassed D.

One of the worst plays of the game IMO was a delayed hand-off to Evans on 3 and 10. WTF was that. It may have set up a FG but where was the killer instinct?

Okay, I'll go along with you Patsnut. Since the coaching buck stops with BB, I'll start ripping him instead of McD.