A Common Misconception: Cardinals are much more than Larry Fitzgerald

[PP21]

I think there is a big misunderstanding regarding our D. It was ATROCIOUS to start the season last year, so the overall numbers may not be great. New scheme, the lockout, so zero time to learn the system. They had to learn on the go. While the amount of opponents with prolific offenses are limited, putting up these kind of numbers over a 9 game span is still great:

Whatever happened, whatever made the team completely buy-in, we'll never know. The complete 180 they took last year was remarkable.

With that being said, I still think you guys pose too many matchup problems for us, and we'll get run out of Foxboro, but the D is no slouch. 10 am game, Tom Brady & co, BB, too much.

I didn't make this, but here is our week 1 defensive chart if anyone cares:

(Walker gave up 1 rec for 11 yds)
Anyway, good luck, big Tom Brady fan so I hope you guys tear it up again this season.

 

[Kid~Brady]

Just because many fans and analysts misunderstand that winning football isn't about how good the first 3 guys you can name are, doesn't mean it has any validity.
I'm not quite sure what leads you to think the Cardinal defense is 'very potent'. 'Very average' might be a complement.

Agreed. Maybe I did take that a little far but my point was to express that many people are marking this down as a win forgetting that their defense does play a part over there. I won't lie, when I think of them, its just shutting down Fitz but given our O-line situation this season, their defense may pose a suitable issue.

 

[goheels22002]

Ken - the problem is THEY AREN'T. There is not one statistic from last year that bears that out. Look at what you want. Sacks, yards, QB rating, turnovers, anything. The Ravens were a top three defense, the Cardinals were an above average defense. Other than listing their good players there's no basis to what you said.

Also (team not defense specific) :

They were 6-2 at home, 2-6 on the road.
They were 7-4 on grass, 1-4 on turf.
They were 7-3 intdoor, 1-5 outdoor.

But believe what you want.

Exactly right. The Cardinals defense last year was the definition of mediocre against a boatload of crappy offenses.

The home-road record is significant, especially Sunday with it being a home opener. As Brady would put, everybody will be "lubed up."

The dome factor is less of a big deal since it's supposed to be a beautiful afternoon.

 

[Deus Irae]

But thats just stats. Out defense was ranked 31st last season, although we were in the middle for TDs given up. Defense stats are always a little skewed to me.

I didn't post yardage stats. I posted the scoring stats.


And, other than wins/losses, everything is just stats. Here are some more, going backwards from 2011 to 2007 (Whisenhunt's tenure excluding this season):

scoring +/- under Whisenhunt

21,31,12,18,15 (Warner was the QB for the three seasons in the teens)

Takeaway/Giveaway ratio
28,22,24,17,22

The simple truth is that, while there are some good players out there, the Cardinals defense isn't very good and the rankings reflect that, despite the Cardinals having the benefit of playing other NFCW teams twice every season.

 

[Kid~Brady]

I didn't post yardage stats. I posted the scoring stats.


And, other than wins/losses, everything is just stats. Here are some more, going backwards from 2011 to 2007 (Whisenhunt's tenure excluding this season):

scoring +/- under Whisenhunt

21,31,12,18,15 (Warner was the QB for the three seasons in the teens)

Takeaway/Giveaway ratio
28,22,24,17,22

The simple truth is that, while there are some good players out there, the Cardinals defense isn't very good and the rankings reflect that, despite the Cardinals having the benefit of playing other NFCW teams twice every season.

True. I see.

 

[PP21]

I didn't post yardage stats. I posted the scoring stats.


And, other than wins/losses, everything is just stats. Here are some more, going backwards from 2011 to 2007 (Whisenhunt's tenure excluding this season):

scoring +/- under Whisenhunt

21,31,12,18,15 (Warner was the QB for the three seasons in the teens)

Takeaway/Giveaway ratio
28,22,24,17,22

The simple truth is that, while there are some good players out there, the Cardinals defense isn't very good and the rankings reflect that, despite the Cardinals having the benefit of playing other NFCW teams twice every season.

The defense was never anything good or special until we hired Ray Horton as the D-coord. He came from Pittsburgh and has been great. Anything before him I disregard. Team has more talent all-around on D now than in those seasons. I can't think of one player from any of those teams that I'd rather have over anyone on this team (Dansby no, Rolle no, DRC no). This current group is perfect for the system Horton has in place.

 

[Kid~Brady]

Exactly right. The Cardinals defense last year was the definition of mediocre against a boatload of crappy offenses.

The home-road record is significant, especially Sunday with it being a home opener. As Brady would put, everybody will be "lubed up."

The dome factor is less of a big deal since it's supposed to be a beautiful afternoon.

True, as well. Like I said, I don't think the Cardinals will win, I just think their team is a little better than people give them credit for. Not to mention, they have a pretty good special teams unit.

With a decent QB, not named Kolb or Skelton, this would be a formidable team.

 

[IllegalContact]

But thats just stats. Out defense was ranked 31st last season, although we were in the middle for TDs given up. Defense stats are always a little skewed to me.

the pats were 31st in yards.....you replied to someone talking points....there's a difference

 

[Kid~Brady]

the pats were 31st in yards.....you replied to someone talking points....there's a difference

Yeah, I figured that a few posts ago when he responded to me. My bad.

 

[MadCardDisease]

I think the cardinals defense benefits statistically from being in the NFC west.

last year, they got dumped on by newton, manning, roethlisberger, flacco
they didn't stop anyone good

You have to remember that the Cardinals had a new OC in Ray Horton last year and he was trying to install the Steeler D with a shortened offseason. All of those QB you mentioned were played in the first 7 games of the season. I mentioned this before in another thread but initially the Cardinals Defensive players didn't buy into the Pittsburg system that Horton was trying to install.

That all changed after the Cardinals played the Steelers in week 7. The Cardinals Defensive players got to see the Steelers Defense in action. After the game several defensive players from the Steelers talked with players from the Cardinals Defense. They convinced the Cardinals players to give Horton's system a chance and play within the system. After that the rest is history and in those final 9 games the Cardinals defense became one of the better defenses in the league.

Over the final 9 games of the season last year, the Cardinals defense was ranked in the top 5 of several defensive categories. This include being the best defense at stopping teams on 3rd down and the Second best at stopping teams from scroing TDs in the Redzone.

 

[Deus Irae]

Just a followup....

Every team in the NFL is capable of winning any given game. The Cardinals have some talented players on both sides of the ball (i.e. Fitzgerald, Peterson) and on special teams, and they can make the sort of plays that can change a game. But, in the aggregate, it's a bad football team that's had only 3 winning seasons since 1984.

The Patriots need to avoid overconfidence and injury, but they're not facing a sleeping giant this week, IMO.

 

[Deus Irae]

...Over the final 9 games of the season last year, the Cardinals defense was ranked in the top 5 of several defensive categories. This include being the best defense at stopping teams on 3rd down and the Second best at stopping teams from scroing TDs in the Redzone.

But let's be honest about who they were shutting down:

The Rams (32nd in scoring) , twice
An Eagles team that was 4-8 through its first 12 games
The Cowboys (15th in scoring)
A very inconsistent, and often lousy, SF offense
The Browns (30th in scoring)
The Bengals (18th in scoring)
The Seahawks (23rd in scoring)

They weren't facing offensive juggernauts. Like the Patriots last season, the Cardinals were blessed with a lot of poor offensive opponents during their 'run'. The Patriots held the Cowboys to 16 points, for example, to look at a common opponent.

 

[MadCardDisease]

But let's be honest about who they were shutting down:

The Rams (32nd in scoring) , twice
An Eagles team that was 4-8 through its first 12 games
The Cowboys (15th in scoring)
A very inconsistent, and often lousy, SF offense
The Browns (30th in scoring)
The Bengals (18th in scoring)
The Seahawks (23rd in scoring)

They weren't facing offensive juggernauts. Like the Patriots last season, the Cardinals were blessed with a lot of poor offensive opponents during their 'run'. The Patriots held the Cowboys to 16 points, for example, to look at a common opponent.

True enough. Not exactly offensive juggernauts. However you also have to consider that the Cardinals defense was put in real bad situations by the offense during this period. Very often they were forced to start on their own side of the field.

Also there is no denying that the Cardinals Defense was the clear reason that they won 7 out 9 games down the stretch. They were getting zero help from the Offense.

 

[Deus Irae]

True enough. Not exactly offensive juggernauts. However you also have to consider that the Cardinals defense was put in real bad situations by the offense during this period. Very often they were forced to start on their own side of the field.

Also there is no denying that the Cardinals Defense was the clear reason that they won 7 out 9 games down the stretch. They were getting zero help from the Offense.

Sure, and the defense looked alright against a lousy Seahawks offense last week, too. I'm not saying the defense is the worst in the league, or anything. However, the last potent offense they shut down was that Eagles team that was stumbling around for most of last year before waking up in the last 4 weeks. The three best teams (Giants/Steelers/Ravens) the Cardinals faced last year all put up 30+.

This game should be a pretty good test for the Cardinals defense but, as I posted in another thread, the Patriots should win this game by 20+, IMO.

 

[shmessy]

Whether we like it or not, the Giants and the Ryans are the only ones who seem to be able to stop us. Rob in that game. We know Rex has.

I know what Rex had last year.

30 and 37 points put up against his vaunted D by the Patriots.

 

[MadCardDisease]

Sure, and the defense looked alright against a lousy Seahawks offense last week, too. I'm not saying the defense is the worst in the league, or anything.

Just alright? Sure the Seahawks have a crappy offense but I thought the Cardinals Defense did a very good job against Seattle.

They held the Seahawks to 16 points. Now look where the Seahawks started when they scored those points:

Arizona 42 - Field Goal

Arizona 24 - TD

Arizona 34 - Field Goal

Arizona 16 - Field Goal


So all of their scoring came off of shortened fields due to Offensive turn overs and big returns from Leon Washington. The Cardinals defense had a stellar game when you consider that.

Again I'm not saying that I think the Cardinals are going to contain Brady and Gronk. In fact I'm on the record as saying I think Brady will shred the Cardinals D because they have always struggled against great TEs. I just wanted to clear up some misconceptions regarding the Cardinals defense.

 

[goheels22002]

I think there is a big misunderstanding regarding our D. It was ATROCIOUS to start the season last year, so the overall numbers may not be great. New scheme, the lockout, so zero time to learn the system. They had to learn on the go. While the amount of opponents with prolific offenses are limited, putting up these kind of numbers over a 9 game span is still great:

Whatever happened, whatever made the team completely buy-in, we'll never know. The complete 180 they took last year was remarkable.

With that being said, I still think you guys pose too many matchup problems for us, and we'll get run out of Foxboro, but the D is no slouch. 10 am game, Tom Brady & co, BB, too much.

I didn't make this, but here is our week 1 defensive chart if anyone cares:

(Walker gave up 1 rec for 11 yds)
Anyway, good luck, big Tom Brady fan so I hope you guys tear it up again this season.

There are endless threads on this board cherry picking games or parts of a season to prove a point.

The biggest stink bomb last season was the Pats at Buffalo scorching in which Brady threw 4 interceptions and the Bills racked up 448 yards and 34 points. The legend of Mensa Patriots Killer Ryan Fitzpatrick was born.

The Cardinals are what their record says they are and that is an 8-8 team with a middle of-the road defense and a poor offense.

The Patriots are what their record says they are - a 14-2 team with a top-shelf offense and hopefully a mediocre defense.

The Patriots put 30 or more on the board 13 times in 2011 (and are 1 for 1 in 2012), including three forty-burgers - twice against the Denver Tebows, and once against the Buffalo Patriot Killers at home in week 17.

Don't sleep on the Pats's defense - it was #3 in the NFL in takeaway ratio last year behind the forty-whiners and packers with a +17. They picked up where they left off last week.

I think we would all take the Patriots lurking in the middle of the pack in yards allowed and moving up to a top ten team in points allowed this year.

Opponents are quickly going to shelve their run games again this year and start slinging it to try and catch up - I expect the yardage allowed to be high. But that is meaningless if the defense is tough in the Red Zone and holds the opponents to field goals while the Patriots score touchdowns. So far, this defense looks like it will be tough close to the goal line.

Last, we all saw that the Cards were 8-2 in their last 10. Nice. The Pats were 9-1 and the loss was in the Super Bowl.

 

[Deus Irae]

Just alright? Sure the Seahawks have a crappy offense but I thought the Cardinals Defense did a very good job against Seattle.

They held the Seahawks to 16 points. Now look where the Seahawks started when they scored those points:

Arizona 42 - Field Goal

Arizona 24 - TD

Arizona 34 - Field Goal

Arizona 16 - Field Goal


So all of their scoring came off of shortened fields due to Offensive turn overs and big returns from Leon Washington. The Cardinals defense had a stellar game when you consider that.

Again I'm not saying that I think the Cardinals are going to contain Brady and Gronk. In fact I'm on the record as saying I think Brady will shred the Cardinals D because they have always struggled against great TEs. I just wanted to clear up some misconceptions regarding the Cardinals defense.

They faced a rookie QB who was in his first start and was clearly overwhelmed by the moment, and they would have lost (and given up another 7 points) if Edwards hadn't dropped a pass that hit him right in the hands.

So, yeah, just alright.

 

[ATippett56]

True enough. Not exactly offensive juggernauts. However you also have to consider that the Cardinals defense was put in real bad situations by the offense during this period. Very often they were forced to start on their own side of the field.

How has the offense improved? If anything the Cardinals offense will be worse this season, since the Cardinals lost their starting left tackle for the season and the Cardinals are starting a rookie at right tackle. Also, wasn't Skelton leading the charge down the stretch last season and not Kolb?

 

[MadCardDisease]

They faced a rookie QB who was in his first start and was clearly overwhelmed by the moment, and they would have lost (and given up another 7 points) if Edwards hadn't dropped a pass that hit him right in the hands.

So, yeah, just alright.

Ah yes the drive where the rookie QB:

faced 4th and 6th and kept the drive alive with a PI call

Got another PI call that put the ball on the 13.

Had 7 shots at the endzone from the 13 yard line and still couldn't get it in. This even with the confusion caused by the refs giving Seattle an extra timeout.