Hoyer...upon reflection

[BrickPat]

Not too long ago there was talk among many that Hoyer could possibly be traded for a 3rd or even a 2nd round pick. We obviously overrated him in retrospect as I doubt BB would cut him if he had true trade value.

 

[shmessy]

Not too long ago there was talk among many that Hoyer could possibly be traded for a 3rd or even a 2nd round pick. We obviously overrated him in retrospect as I doubt BB would cut him if he had true trade value.

Given the QB dreck currently backing up (and in some cases, STARTING), I felt a 4th rounder for Hoyer was not out of the question.

BB has been known to cut without getting picks for players with value. See Sanders, James. Maybe there were no offers, but in cases like these, I find it hard to believe.

And, yes, it pisses me off.

 

[patsfan06]

Given the QB dreck currently backing up (and in some cases, STARTING), I felt a 4th rounder for Hoyer was not out of the question.

BB has been known to cut without getting picks for players with value. See Sanders, James. Maybe there were no offers, but in cases like these, I find it hard to believe.

And, yes, it pisses me off.

Here is the reality:

They tried hard to trade him, but found no takers at that salary. Perhaps the Kevin Kolbs of the world soured the NFL on finding a backup in a good system and then taking him into your system.

Mallett didn’t have a great rookie year, and the Patriots were concerned. Then, he showed up after his offseason in Arkansas at 10 percent body fat. Mallett had worked, and the Pats noticed. He’s already won employee of the week a few times, impressing them to no end. In games, the Patriots have actually hid Mallett, calling screen pass after screen pass so as not to show off his arm.

Basically the Pats were doing everything possible to make teams believe Hoyer was still fighting for the spot with Mallett when in reality he wasn't. Teams knew that and wouldn't give up anything of value ALONG with paying his salary when they knew he was getting cut.

 

[RelocatedPatFan]

I'd say Hoyer has been progressing alogn the curve enough to keep hi maroundand his auditions during the last 2 preaeasons wasn't enough bait to reel in a trade.

 

[BelichickFan]

BB has been known to cut without getting picks for players with value. See Sanders, James. Maybe there were no offers, but in cases like these, I find it hard to believe.

And, yes, it pisses me off.

Many of us are still waiting for you to back up any of your claims that we were offered a draft pick for Hoyer, Sanders or any others.

Please advise with your inside knowledge.

 

[PP2]

In games, the Patriots have actually hid Mallett, calling screen pass after screen pass so as not to show off his arm.

That's downright ridiculous.

 

[aluminum seats]

Pretty unlikely the Pats would say "no thanks" to a draft pick and just cut a guy instead.

Seems like a good move to me. I'd say the only reason to keep 3 QBs is if one guy is a veteran ready to step in right away, and the other's a potential/development guy. Don't keep two of the latter unless you really feel they both could be special--and Hoyer hasn't shown that he will be.

Look, Pats are obviously screwed if Brady goes down, cutting Hoyer doesn't change that. I like having the roster space for a guy who could help them this year.

 

[hodgey]

Im sure Hoyer is a good guy, but anyone who has watched him this pre-season knows he's been terrible. In the last game he had a legit shot against scrubs and could'nt get anything going. Imho BB is making some really positive choices cutting dead weight. Lets hope now he finds a way to keep Dennard who I thought looked really good against the gmen, and Ebner.

 

[supafly]

BB has been known to cut without getting picks for players with value. See Sanders, James. Maybe there were no offers, but in cases like these, I find it hard to believe.

As a so called 'up and coming' young safety who was taken in the first round and made the pro bowl twice in his first few years as a starter, Brandon Meriweather would have probably gathered a much higher pick than a journeyman JAG like James Sanders, but your point is certainly valid.

If we couldn't attract even a low round pick for a first round pro bowler (see Vontae Davis getting a #2 and #6 rounder as the closest thing I can find to a comparison, which is still night and day) then I wouldn't see much compensation for any of the players who the forum often clamors for in trade value.

Honestly, I thought those who were stating Hoyer as a potential 2nd round value had completely and utterly lost their minds, but I certainly agree with you that many thought he could've at least gathered us a 5th/6th rd pick or so. Unfortunately, I think there are many "Brian Hoyer's" around the NFL, and that poses a problem when attempting to judge.

 

[Dingleberry]

Many of us are still waiting for you to back up any of your claims that we were offered a draft pick for Hoyer, Sanders or any others.

I'm still waiting for the 1st round pick many Pats fans said we would get for Rohan Davey.

 

[mayoclinic]

Basically the Pats were doing everything possible to make teams believe Hoyer was still fighting for the spot with Mallett when in reality he wasn't. Teams knew that and wouldn't give up anything of value ALONG with paying his salary when they knew he was getting cut.

I think there's some truth to this.

The Pats like to keep their options open. They didn't get to see enough from Ryan Mallett last year to have confidence in him, so they tendered Hoyer at a 2nd round level as an insurance policy. There were rumors that the Pats loved Hoyer" and would be upset to lose him for a 2nd round pick, but in retrospect I wonder how much of that was a smoke screen. There were persistent media reports all spring from multiple sources about Hoyer's potential trade value, and the Pats' depth at QB.

As far as I can tell, 3 things apparently happened this preseason: (1) the Pats became more comfortable with Mallett's development, (2) Hoyer didn't show enough to merit any trade value, and (3) there was enough competition at other positions to put a squeeze on keeping 3 QBs.

 

[IcyPatriot]

I think there's some truth to this.

The Pats like to keep their options open. They didn't get to see enough from Ryan Mallett last year to have confidence in him, so they tendered Hoyer at a 2nd round level as an insurance policy. There were rumors that the Pats loved Hoyer" and would be upset to lose him for a 2nd round pick, but in retrospect I wonder how much of that was a smoke screen. There were persistent media reports all spring from multiple sources about Hoyer's potential trade value, and the Pats' depth at QB.

As far as I can tell, 3 things apparently happened this preseason: (1) the Pats became more comfortable with Mallett's development, (2) Hoyer didn't show enough to merit any trade value, and (3) there was enough competition at other positions to put a squeeze on keeping 3 QBs.

Very well said ... in the old NFL intelligence and hard work could get you a QB job in the NFL. Now - you have to be able to make all the throws 1st and then the other stuff factors in and there's lots more of that other stuff now (your #3).

 

[onegameatatime]

I've never understood this idea that a Pats backup who never played would have value to other teams. People talk about Cassel, but he actually played 15.75 games.

 

[Froob]

Was disappointed as first but he's a free agent at the end of the year and nobody wants to trade for him. If Brady goes down pats arent winning the super bowl anyways so may as well not waste a spot. Good luck Brian.

 

[rookBoston]

I've never understood this idea that a Pats backup who never played would have value to other teams. People talk about Cassel, but he actually played 15.75 games.

Kevin Kolb and Matt Flynn were leaps of faith, too. Both had limited playing time, but were well regarded by scouts. Flynn had a quality loss at Foxboro which probably made him into a tradeable asset. Kolb... well, that's another story, who can say; and he's worked out so well for Arizona.

Clearly, if a team was interested in Hoyer, they would have offered prior to the draft and had him in camp, playing in their system, instead of waiting until now to bring in a complete stranger.

Two things, in my mind:
1) Mallett won the job, which was no sure thing
2) No other team had an earthshattering disaster with QB injuries in preseason that might have forced them to contemplate a Hoyer trade.

 

[mgteich]

I agree with all that you posted except for the last phrase of the last sentence. There's lot of roster room. Rivera or Forsten could be cut in a heartbeat if Belichick saw any value in keeping Hoyer. Belichick paid for an insurance policy. It had no value as of today. It really is that simple.

I think there's some truth to this.

The Pats like to keep their options open. They didn't get to see enough from Ryan Mallett last year to have confidence in him, so they tendered Hoyer at a 2nd round level as an insurance policy. There were rumors that the Pats loved Hoyer" and would be upset to lose him for a 2nd round pick, but in retrospect I wonder how much of that was a smoke screen. There were persistent media reports all spring from multiple sources about Hoyer's potential trade value, and the Pats' depth at QB.

As far as I can tell, 3 things apparently happened this preseason: (1) the Pats became more comfortable with Mallett's development, (2) Hoyer didn't show enough to merit any trade value, and (3) there was enough competition at other positions to put a squeeze on keeping 3 QBs.

 

[cmasspatsfan]

Hoyer appeared to have reached his peak, he certainly didnt look like he was getting any better, Bill must feel (as most of us do) that Mallett has much more upside even though he may be a little behind where Hoyer was this preseason. No use wasting a roster spot, hopefully we dont see Mallett on the field this year unless its mop up duty in a blow out win. Mallett should improve as the year goes along.

 

[Betterthanmost]

The worst things that happened as far as Hoyer's interest were Kolb and Flynn. Especially Kolb. How bad does that look?

 

[mgteich]

Personally, I don't understand the big deal. Mallett was drafted in the 3rd round and was expected to need a year to develop and beat out Hoyer this year. We paid Hoyer a couple of million of insurance money just in case. Mallett beat out Hoyer.

 

[mayoclinic]

ESPN's Kevin Williamson speculates on Hoyer's potential destinations:

There has been no shortage of recognizable names on Friday's NFL cut lists, Super Bowl MVP Deion Branch and first-round bust Vernon Gholston among them. But to me, the most intriguing name from Cut Day 2012 is backup New England Patriots QB Brian Hoyer.

Hoyer is a good player, and coach Bill Belichick doesn't let good players walk away for nothing without more than one good reason. So right away I think this move tells us two things: 1) New England isn't worried in the slightest about a rapid decline from Tom Brady. If it was, Hoyer is the type of stop-gap insurance policy that could still give a talented team like New England a playoff shot even absent its star QB. 2) The Pats are absolutely on board with Ryan Mallett, and he could very well be Brady's heir apparent.

You may be thinking about a third conclusion -- Hoyer isn't very good -- but I definitely disagree on that score. In fact, I think he'd fit very nicely with a number of NFL teams.


Hoyer is a very good, but not great, athlete. Growing up he played baseball and had a plus-90s fastball that translates now into an adequate -- but again, not great -- NFL arm. He's not going to drive it through the sleet and the rain like a Jay Cutler or a Joe Flacco, two QBs with cannons hanging from their shoulders, but he's played in the North all his career and he never has been a liability in that regard. Based on pure physical talent, he's pretty good across the board. He just doesn't stand out in any one area.

His biggest assets are his intellect and his experience. Hoyer is a lot like Matt Schaub behind Michael Vick in Atlanta, or Matt Flynn when he was behind Aaron Rodgers. Hoyer has had the advantage of sitting all day in QB meetings with a very talented starter in Tom Brady and he has the solid work ethic to make the most of that experience.

On the whole, everything about him is about a 6 out of 10, which makes him a great candidate to be a No. 2 QB in the NFL. And there are plenty of teams for which Hoyer would represent an upgrade at that position. In one case, he may even be better than the starter.

NFL - Green Bay Packers, New York Jets among best fits for Brian Hoyer - ESPN