The 46 player active roster matters on cuts

[supafly]

You're right about the health thing with Shiancoe; certainly it would be a disincentive to guaranteeing his salary. Having 4 TEs makes sense, however, although preferably with more ST contribution.

Some recent article said the Pats dressed 8 OL more often than 7 last season. I was surprised.

Schiancoe is still an unknown to me. Everytime I think I get a read there is the other side of the coin which makes sense too. That one will be interesting, but at the end of the day I wouldn't be shocked to find out that he will not be here.

I believe that the NEP actually had 3 TE's active in about 25% of the games last year, which would already leave Fells as the odd man out if all 3 are healthy, although one could also assume that Belichick wanted more 3 TE gameday actives and couldn't get them due to injuries/lack of player. Maybe he does want to carry 4 + 1 on PUP (although we're expecting Ballard to me moved to permanent IR, maybe Belichick knows that he has potential for a late season push?)

I think that Schiancoe's a goner, but it could certainly go either way.

 

[patsfan13]

No offense, I just don't understand the fascination with Shiancoe on the PatsFans message board. The tight end has done nothing whatsoever in training camp let alone play one pre-season game.

I personally would have cut Shiancoe and kept Gaffney.

Shinacoe is a veteran who had some very good years in Minn since we play a 2TE base 4 TE's on the roster doesn't seem like a stretch. The Pats knowing they were looking to extend AH still went out and got J Ballard and signed Fells to a multi year deal so IMO the Pats aren't looking to go with just 3 TE's.

 

[UK_Pat37]

Shinacoe is a veteran who had some very good years in Minn since we play a 2TE base 4 TE's on the roster doesn't seem like a stretch. The Pats knowing they were looking to extend AH still went out and got J Ballard and signed Fells to a multi year deal so IMO the Pats aren't looking to go with just 3 TE's.

I wouldn't say it's out of the question at all...I can't see Shiancoe making the team if he doesn't get healthy though. I see Fells as a lock and I wouldn't say it would have been out of the question to make Shiancoe the fourth TE but he's got to do something. IR is obviously a possibility (I think he's practiced so he isn't eligible for PUP) but given he's on a one year deal and they obviously see Ballard being able to return in week 6, they may just opt to part ways.

 

[patsfan13]

I wouldn't say it's out of the question at all...I can't see Shiancoe making the team if he doesn't get healthy though. I see Fells as a lock and I wouldn't say it would have been out of the question to make Shiancoe the fourth TE but he's got to do something. IR is obviously a possibility (I think he's practiced so he isn't eligible for PUP) but given he's on a one year deal and they obviously see Ballard being able to return in week 6, they may just opt to part ways.

I am basing this speculation on the Pats knowing more about the seriousness of injury than we do.

I also think that Ballard playing this year after the sort of surgery he had is unlikely. I think they are trying to get him to IR without exposing him to waivers.

 

[BlueThunder]

How does a Waters return effect the final roster? Who gets cut?

I expect to see him shortly.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

I am basing this speculation on the Pats knowing more about the seriousness of injury than we do.

I also think that Ballard playing this year after the sort of surgery he had is unlikely. I think they are trying to get him to IR without exposing him to waivers.

They could have done that without PUP. Ballard was in the locker room yesterday and walking without a noticible limp. It's been 6 months since his surgery. That is the new 9 months to a year for surgially repaired ACL's at this level. He will be 8 months post surgery by the time they have to make a decision to activate him or IR him.

Shianco may be gone by then. If not sooner. His situation is a headscratcher as they had to extend themselves financially to land him and then after a practice or two he was gone. And they were in a roster bind practice and game wise for the duration. Bill is either steamed and not feeling like releasing him a day sooner than he has to with a couple of teams jonesing for a viable second TE or he liked him enough that he's not going to risk him prior to week 1 under any circumstances. Kind of like the Waters situation, we can only guess what the backstory is. We will know soon, though.

 

[Funktopus]

I'm not sure who you mean with the first name, but I'm assuming maybe Barrett? He was cut in the first round on Sunday night, so he's out. You may have "Beckett" on the brain a bit lately due to some of the Red Sox news.

Dennard to me is another question mark, but he may very well make it now as a developmental CB. I agree that he will be inactive for the majority of the games, barring injury. They could try and sneak him onto the PS, but I think that we may keep 10 DB's now, which would keep him here.

Thomas' situation may have dramatically improved when McDonald was injured. This would also be true if/when Waters does NOT decide to show up, which is a possibility too. Either way, Thomas' chances have increased in my opinion. I agree with him on the inactive list for the majority.

Weems I do not see making it, although he will likely be signed to the PS if he can make it through. I just don't see too much room, but then again--you need an additional tackle too, and his chances may have increased with the McDonald injury depending upon how bad it is, as he was supposed to take the 4th tackle + versatility at all 5 position.

Francis is one who I actually totally agree with. There is a rumor that they are rather high on him. We'll have to see if that's true, but it would make sense.

We'd still need one more, which would give 6 + the inactive QB (Mallett).

lol @ me posting too late last night. I meant Jake Bequette.

The names I threw out there are just speculation about inactives. ST'ers from last game as documented by Reiss include:

Players with special teams value - New England Patriots Blog - ESPN Boston

I was trying to back into a guess about a 53 man roster by assuming that out of the 46 some must play ST. For example, Slater will and Branch probably not. Would including this additional constraint help improve my guesses about the 53? I dunno. I was sharing to see if anyone else was thinking about it like this.

It would be cool though if the patspicker had 1) ST attributes assignable to each player for kickoff, punt, kickoff coverage and punt ret 2) game day inactives, 3) practice squad designation and 4) PUP.

 

[mgteich]

1) 25 isn't the "magic" number for the offense. We have often kept 26, and once kept 27 IIRC. So, there is "room" for a 4th TE or to bring back a WR (certainly room after the beginning of the season) or for a fullback or for a 10th offensive lineman.

2) IMHO, 4 centers is one too many. In effect McDonald is the 4th RT. I suspect that we will sign a backup RT in the next couple of weeks. McDonald may be a nice prospect, but he was our 4th center last year, and he is the 4th center this year. As with any center not named Koppen, he also plays guard.

3) Most of our rosters have had 24 defensive players for a couple weeks. Including special teamers, 14 front seven and 10 defensive backs is sufficient. Someone even suggested 13 in the front seven. 9 defensive backs has been suggested many times. The key is the lack of need for special-teams-only players on defense, since all the special teamers are at least emergency players at a position.

I have accounted for 25 players on the New England Patriots offense:

QB - 3 Brady, Mallett, Hoyer
RB - 5 Woodhead, Vereen, Ridley, Bolden, Demps
TE - 3 Gronkowski, Hernandez, Fells
WR - 5 Welker, Lloyd, Branch, Edelman, Slater
OL - 9 Koppen, Connelly, Wendell, McDonald, Mankins, Thomas, Solder, Vollmer, Cannon

Based upon the aforementioned offensive squad, there is no room for the following players:

Ebert
Kettani
Taylor

 

[ATippett56]

1) 25 isn't the "magic" number for the offense. We have often kept 26, and once kept 27 IIRC. So, there is "room" for a 4th TE or to bring back a WR (certainly room after the beginning of the season) or for a fullback or for a 10th offensive lineman.

Shiancoe has been unable to get on the practice field since the first week of training camp, has yet to play a pre-season game, and has no previous experience playing in the New England Patriots offense.

2) IMHO, 4 centers is one too many. In effect McDonald is the 4th RT. I suspect that we will sign a backup RT in the next couple of weeks. McDonald may be a nice prospect, but he was our 4th center last year, and he is the 4th center this year. As with any center not named Koppen, he also plays guard.

I thought McDonald and Thomas had the ability to play the offensive guard position.

3) Most of our rosters have had 24 defensive players for a couple weeks. Including special teamers, 14 front seven and 10 defensive backs is sufficient. Someone even suggested 13 in the front seven. 9 defensive backs has been suggested many times. The key is the lack of need for special-teams-only players on defense, since all the special teamers are at least emergency players at a position.

Cutting Jabar Gaffney makes even less sense considering this line of reasoning.

 

[ATippett56]

Shinacoe is a veteran who had some very good years in Minn since we play a 2TE base 4 TE's on the roster doesn't seem like a stretch. The Pats knowing they were looking to extend AH still went out and got J Ballard and signed Fells to a multi year deal so IMO the Pats aren't looking to go with just 3 TE's.

Adding another pass receiving target (in addition to Daniel Fells) that will clog the middle of the field will not resolve the Achilles' heel of the New England Patriots passing offense.

 

[supafly]

lol @ me posting too late last night. I meant Jake Bequette.

That's probably more on me than it is on you buddy. I should have been able to see where you were going with the name, my bad.

I enjoyed your post and agree with just about everything besides Weems I think.

 

[Dragda]

No offense, I just don't understand the fascination with Shiancoe on the PatsFans message board. The tight end has done nothing whatsoever in training camp let alone play one pre-season game.

I personally would have cut Shiancoe and kept Gaffney.

You might have said the same thing in 2007 about Randy Moss

 

[ATippett56]

You might have said the same thing in 2007 about Randy Moss

Nothing like comparing a Hall of Fame wide receiver to a JAG tight end.

 

[Dragda]

Nothing like comparing a Hall of Fame wide receiver to a JAG tight end.

I'm not comparing their play, just the circumstances. A lot of us were confused by shelving Moss for the entire preseason in 2007. It is possible they are doing something like that with this guy.

 

[ATippett56]

I'm not comparing their play, just the circumstances. A lot of us were confused by shelving Moss for the entire preseason in 2007. It is possible they are doing something like that with this guy.

Moss managed to get on the practice field during training camp. Moss was held out of the pre-season games as a precautionary measure.

Shiancoe has not been on the practice field since the first week of training camp.

 

[Dragda]

Moss managed to get on the practice field during training camp. Moss was held out of the pre-season games as a precautionary measure.

Shiancoe has not been on the practice field since the first week of training camp.

Moss pulled his hamstring in training camp. It may not have been the first week, but it was early enough to make this comparison.

 

[ATippett56]

Moss pulled his hamstring in training camp. It may not have been the first week, but it was early enough to make this comparison.

I won't shed a tear if Shiancoe is cut from the New England Patriots.

Shiancoe is not critical to the success of the New England Patriots offense, especially since tight end Daniel Fells has been recently released from the PUP list. Three tight ends is sufficient for the 53 man roster.

 

[ATippett56]

2) IMHO, 4 centers is one too many. In effect McDonald is the 4th RT. I suspect that we will sign a backup RT in the next couple of weeks. McDonald may be a nice prospect, but he was our 4th center last year, and he is the 4th center this year. As with any center not named Koppen, he also plays guard.

As a footnote, McDonald has practice squad eligibility.

Players eligible for practice squad - New England Patriots Blog - ESPN Boston

If Brian Waters returns for another season, McDonald could be the odd man out.

 

[supafly]

As a footnote, McDonald has practice squad eligibility.

Players eligible for practice squad - New England Patriots Blog - ESPN Boston

If Brian Waters returns for another season, McDonald could be the odd man out.

I would hope not, but keeping him on the PS (if he passes through) would be just as sufficient.

I wonder how much/if any his injury is complicating the decision?

 

[ATippett56]

I would hope not, but keeping on the PS (if he passes through) would be just as sufficient.

I wonder how much/if any his injury is complicating the decision?

Since Brian Waters has yet to report, this is speculation on my part with regard to the New England Patriots offensive line vis-a-vis the 53 man roster.