Idle thoughts - The Yawn from TB

[Rob0729]

Some quick thoughts (Note I am going to focus mostly on the positives since plenty of people are focusing on the negatives):

-The o-line had an up and down night. Sometimes they were very solid (on the TD drive in the second quarter) and others they were downright horrible. I would assume with Mankins regaining his legs, Vollmer back, and probably Waters back that this all will be moot when the season starts.
- Solder seems to be improving his technique. He seems to use his arm length more, keeping his center of gravity low, and moving less stiff. I think with the real starting o-line and some scheming, he should be ok. Maybe not as effective as Light, but not a liability.
- Chandler Jones seems to be unblockable. The guy at times treats his blocker like rag dolls. Even double teams don't stop him. I think one thing he needs to work on though is improving his angles to the QB. There were several times that he pressured Freeman, but if he took a better angle it would have been a sack. Granted one or two might have been a sack with a less mobile QB. One thing I am surprised about him is how well be holds up against the run. He had two tackles in that area - one for a loss and the other for an 1 yard gain. He set the edge very well.
- Spikes look to be picking up from his solid Super Bowl appearance. The guy brings a mean streak to the defense (which should be supported by Hightower when he improves).
- Branch has shown his job isn't in jeopardy. He will be solid as a #3 or #4 WR. Stallworth is gone especially with the addition of Demps. Stallworth is just ok with the 2s and 3s.
- Hernandez might have surpassed Gronk as Brady's #2 option after Welker except in the red zone. He seems to be all over the field. Now I will temper this a bit by stating that Gronk was asked to block a lot last night.
- I wish they didn't go with a vanilla zone defense most of the night. I would have liked to see a more agressive defense like the one that Tampa threw at the Pats. I am hoping that Belichick and Patricia are only doing the soft zone to evaluate players and not as a strategy for the year. I think the Pats' front seven is strong enough to apply pressure on the front end that will allow the Pats take the training wheels off the secondary.

 

[Ring 6]

Does that mean WW is receiver #6 because he didn't play or maybe BB knows what he has in Moore? or, could it be Moore played extensively in game #2 or does BB have something else in mind?

I certainly won't know until the season begins (or someone is cut)

Kind of a stretch to use the 'he didn't play until scrub time because we know what we have' with a guy on the bubble to make the roster, who was cut twice last year.
I didn't see Welker out there playing in the 4th quarter, and to suggest the use of Wes Welker and Sterling Moore would share a logic is an abysmal effort at insight.

 

[patfanken]

- I wish they didn't go with a vanilla zone defense most of the night. I would have liked to see a more agressive defense like the one that Tampa threw at the Pats. I am hoping that Belichick and Patricia are only doing the soft zone to evaluate players and not as a strategy for the year. I think the Pats' front seven is strong enough to apply pressure on the front end that will allow the Pats take the training wheels off the secondary.

Nothing wrong with the "soft zone" Robo. It might drive US crazy, but its still the reason why our scoring defense is always better than our total yards.

I've just been impressed how much closer that zone coverage seems this season....so far. Virtually every pass is contested and requires a good to great throw and a precisely timed route.

Conversely, one of the hallmarks of the Pats offense has been receivers running wide open in the short to mid-zones. Not so much this pre season. Either Josh is holding a lot of stuff back or defenses are starting to catch up. OR maybe JOB will start to get a little respect from the masses.

 

[Rob0729]

Nothing wrong with the "soft zone" Robo. It might drive US crazy, but its still the reason why our scoring defense is always better than our total yards.

I've just been impressed how much closer that zone coverage seems this season....so far. Virtually every pass is contested and requires a good to great throw and a precisely timed route.

Conversely, one of the hallmarks of the Pats offense has been receivers running wide open in the short to mid-zones. Not so much this pre season. Either Josh is holding a lot of stuff back or defenses are starting to catch up. OR maybe JOB will start to get a little respect from the masses.

I don't mind a soft zone depending on the situation. Many times it is the right call. My problem is when you play it most or all of the game. I would have liked to see the Pats try to turn up the heat a little on Freeman at times with some exotic stuff. But they might be holding that stuff back for the regular season.

I just think the Pats have the front seven to be more agressive on defense. In 2004, an aggressive front seven hid the deficiencies in the secondary due to injuries. I think this front seven (although have a lot to prove to be compared to the front seven of the 2004 team) can show some of that aggression.

 

[Ring 6]

Nothing wrong with the "soft zone" Robo. It might drive US crazy, but its still the reason why our scoring defense is always better than our total yards.

I've just been impressed how much closer that zone coverage seems this season....so far. Virtually every pass is contested and requires a good to great throw and a precisely timed route.

Conversely, one of the hallmarks of the Pats offense has been receivers running wide open in the short to mid-zones. Not so much this pre season. Either Josh is holding a lot of stuff back or defenses are starting to catch up. OR maybe JOB will start to get a little respect from the masses.

What always puzzles me is how fans can watch a secondary get beaten up playing a conservative zone, where they can't stick with a receiver within their assigned zone, and call for the same players to play and aggressive man to man scheme.
Its like asking the OL that gets beaten with a double team to man up and play aggressive man blocking with no help.

 

[Uncle Rico]

Before I had my coffee, I saw the thread title and thought there was some controversy over Brady yawning on the sidelines or something.

Guess that's one of the things about pre-season games for me -- the opponents barely register.

 

[Gwedd]

As Ken pointed out, and others have said, this game was more about evaluations than game planning. Winning is nice, but the Pre-Season is all about checking the conditioning levels, seeing who actually understands the plays and playbooks, and who has the best "feel" for their position and the situation(s) they see developing.

Gregory didn't leave the sidelines after his injury (as least as far as I could tell) so I believe it was probably just a deep tissue bruise to the calf or shin and nothing more serious.

Overall I'm not as worried as I was at the start of the pre-season, because what I see is a team getting better, learning from mistakes, and that will pay off in spades later on.

 

[Rob0729]

What always puzzles me is how fans can watch a secondary get beaten up playing a conservative zone, where they can't stick with a receiver within their assigned zone, and call for the same players to play and aggressive man to man scheme.
Its like asking the OL that gets beaten with a double team to man up and play aggressive man blocking with no help.

Other than three passes to Vincent Jackson (one where it looked to be just a miscommunication between two players), I didn't see the first team secondary getting beaten up playing conservative zone last night though. After that first drive, Jackson was really quite (but I wasn't watching him so maybe they pulled him).

 

[Rob0729]

As Ken pointed out, and others have said, this game was more about evaluations than game planning. Winning is nice, but the Pre-Season is all about checking the conditioning levels, seeing who actually understands the plays and playbooks, and who has the best "feel" for their position and the situation(s) they see developing.

Gregory didn't leave the sidelines after his injury (as least as far as I could tell) so I believe it was probably just a deep tissue bruise to the calf or shin and nothing more serious.

Overall I'm not as worried as I was at the start of the pre-season, because what I see is a team getting better, learning from mistakes, and that will pay off in spades later on.

Gregory was kneed in the thigh by Dowling. He should be fine.

 

[QB12]

Other than three passes to Vincent Jackson (one where it looked to be just a miscommunication between two players), I didn't see the first team secondary getting beaten up playing conservative zone last night though. After that first drive, Jackson was really quite (but I wasn't watching him so maybe they pulled him).

That's because Sterling Moore, who I called out here for his awful play against the Eagles, was demoted.

 

[Dingleberry]

I get all jerked off like everyone else when I'm watching runs get stuffed and INT's and sacks... .

You have even more fun than I do during games!

 

[Uncle Rico]

Gregory was kneed in the thigh by Dowling. He should be fine.

.. And Dowling wasn't injured on the play. So that's two postives.

 

[patfanken]

What always puzzles me is how fans can watch a secondary get beaten up playing a conservative zone, where they can't stick with a receiver within their assigned zone, and call for the same players to play and aggressive man to man scheme.
Its like asking the OL that gets beaten with a double team to man up and play aggressive man blocking with no help.

I think the Pats WILL play more man or tight underneath zone coverage this season. While DB's have at least a chance in zone on passes longer than 15 yds, they have no shot on those short passes underneath. You almost have to play some kind of man or 5 under coverage just to a have a chance these days.

But don't underestimate the well played zone (not to be confused with what we saw last season for the most part). If you are getting close competitive coverage from your zone, even when some passes are being completed, it is likely that the offense will eventually stall due to a penalty, deflection, drop, or the non-perfect pass that allows the defender to get a hand in, etc. It's still that hard to put an offensive play together and then string a lot of them consecutively

I think you HAVE to do more man stuff these days, but I don't see BB getting too far away from what's been successful for the last 40 years.

 

[Silver Blue&Red]

Gregory was kneed in the thigh by Dowling. He should be fine.

The CB's are good at taking out their own teammates....... I feel alot better about the oline after read this thread. I'm glad you guys see all the things I miss. I'm just glad TB made it out alive

 

[RelocatedPatFan]

Kind of a stretch to use the 'he didn't play until scrub time because we know what we have' with a guy on the bubble to make the roster, who was cut twice last year.
I didn't see Welker out there playing in the 4th quarter, and to suggest the use of Wes Welker and Sterling Moore would share a logic is an abysmal effort at insight.

Fair enough, but my main point was that none of us here really know what BB is trying to do?

I haaven't heard any reports of WW being hurt, so what is the point of keeping him out of the first team line up (since my opinion is that the offense basically revolves around Wes at this time). What did he want to see from others by excludign him or was it not showing too much.

While we can all assume that Moore was likely given mop up duty (which I didn't see that part of the game) as a result of demotion/punishment, does that still mean he has earned a position or was it a sign of him being released in the coming week or just BB sending a message? Or, something else entirely like seeing other players perform against a higher level of competition. He'll never tell and we can only make assumptions, but won't know until game 1 of the regular season.

 

[Silver Blue&Red]

Fair enough, but my main point was that none of us here really know what BB is trying to do?

I haaven't heard any reports of WW being hurt, so what is the point of keeping him out of the first team line up (since my opinion is that the offense basically revolves around Wes at this time). What did he want to see from others by excludign him or was it not showing too much.

While we can all assume that Moore was likely given mop up duty (which I didn't see that part of the game) as a result of demotion/punishment, does that still mean he has earned a position or was it a sign of him being released in the coming week or just BB sending a message? Or, something else entirely like seeing other players perform against a higher level of competition. He'll never tell and we can only make assumptions, but won't know until game 1 of the regular season.

I think it comes down to BB putting these guys it the most difficult situational senarios. Push em to the limit. Also seeing how suspect players perform before final cut. I dont think there is any punishment here at all. Make it as hard as poissible now, so during the season it works a little smoother and "easier", for lack of a better word. IMO

 

[The Gr8est]

While we still don't know the full extent of the injuries last night, now that two of the three games in ten days have been played, if we emerged relatively unscathed, injurywise, then that was a win in and of itself.

 

[AzPatsFan]

The only time throughout the game where the soft zones was leading to passes to an open guy with 10yards after the catch to see any defender, was when our 'coverage' and ST LBs were playing in the 4th Q.

As far as I am concerned all three, Rivers, Tarpinian and Koutevedes are Arena league candidates, yet some or all are added to the projected 53, simply to have a reasonable number of LBs.

As far as I am concerned, our true LBs are Mayo, Spikes, Hightower and Carpenter. If we need more, simply relable Ninko a LB; and if that is not sufficient, relable Cunningham/Scott a LB too. Tracy White is the light, coverage LB and ST maven, and only him; but he has been on the sidelines and injured, for most of camp, so who knows about him, except he is getting long in the tooth.

Frankly I'd rather carry another Safety or two, and relable or more likely, simply play them as coverage LBs.

It takes more thn one pass rusher to make a pass rush. You need two good ones, and an interior rush by the Big Uglies; and a its helpful to have a ILB Blitz possibility too. We appear to have the one outside pass rusher, the interior Big Guys power pressure, and the ILB Blitz; but I don't yet see the other pass rusher. If/when Pryor returns, he can add a penetrating dimension to the interior rush too, but I sense the need to bring Carter back, if he is in any condition to do so. I'd cut Koppen and all the ST coverage LBs, to find the money if necessary.

Despite the very vanilla zone Defense, the Pats were 3/11 on 3rd downs. That is a trend in the right direction, as BB still believes in the "Bend but don't Break" philosophy, and history shows he is right.

As a coaching failure, I would note that BB did not call for a 2 point attempt after the 3rd TD, with time running down. Another TD and the two 2-point PATs were the only realistic possibility of tying the game. Perhaps, BB did NOT want to play an overtime though, with the compressed schedule.

Dennard did play in the 4th Q, and I did not see him do anything notable, good or bad. But he does tackle well. My impression was that TB was picking on Marquise Cole. He was not atrocious, but I would not say he was good either. I sense that BB was giving Cole an opportunity to prove he could displace Dennar ,and not the other way around. IMHO, there is an over supply of good or at least adequate secondary players for a change, and we can't carry all of them, unless they take spots from the 'coverage' LBs positions.

 

[BlueThunder]

I like Cole who's a ST maven..but I think Dennard has more upside at CB. Maybe BB drops a WR and only keeps 5 ( since Hernandez fills that role also) and keeps Dennard... but that means a tough cut at WR.

Another option might be to drop an OL if/when Waters returns.

The final cuts will have a couple of surprizes im sure.....

If BB doesn't keep 5 RB's, I hope he can slide Bolden onto the PS.

Some tough choices ahead unless a potential starter gets injured in Gints game and goes IR, but I wouldn't wish that on any player just to make an easier decision for the coach.

 

[DaBruinz]

That makes sense to me in regards to both positions, interior and tackles.

The tackles need all the reps they can get due to the change and rawness, and the interior cluster (good problem of course) still needs to be sorted out to provide the best 5 man line.

I am interested in whether Koppen played at all/how he looked, as he is still a big wildcard for me. I am also interested in McDonald and Wendell, and how that will sort out. Still a lot to decide, although I'd say that 2 of the 3 are pretty much locks in my opinion.

The combination of Thomas at LG, Wendell at Center and Connolly at RG was the predominant combination for the night. McDonald saw time at both LG and RG, but maybe two series in total. Mankins didn't see much time. Koppen had at least 2 series.