Quick thoughts on the OL -

[mayoclinic]

Reiss on the OL situation:

1. Vollmer should slide right into the starting right tackle spot, pushing Marcus Cannon into the top backup tackle role. Vollmer is the swing tackle, as he'd likely be the first option to move to left tackle in the event of injury to Nate Solder. It doesn't look like there would be another tackle on the roster, meaning the Patriots would likely keep 5-6 interior options for a total of 8-9 linemen.

2. The locks in that interior group include starting left guard Logan Mankins and starting center/right guard Dan Connolly, with fourth-year center/guard Ryan Wendell also appearing safe. That leaves center/guard/takle Nick McDonald, guard Donald Thomas and center Dan Koppen for 2-3 possible spots, with McDonald's versatility potentially giving him an edge. All of this doesn't factor in the possibility of Brian Waters reporting to camp, which could further threaten someone like Thomas and Koppen for a spot.

Trickle-down effect on Vollmer, Fells - New England Patriots Blog - ESPN Boston

Sounds very familiar, except that I think McDonald is a lock.

 

[Ring 6]

I would expect us to try to have two young OT's on the Practice Squad if we don't sign another OT.

Let's hope that Belichick can find a backup OT in the 600+ cuts from other teams. After the final cut would be soon enough.

We have a long running tradition of picking up other teams OT cuts for our practice sqaud.

 

[mayoclinic]

Intriguing idea, but does anybody know how he actually fared at OT in camp? McDonald has excellent size and athleticism for an interior OL but marginal for a tackle, and IIRC he has VERY short arms (31" maybe?)

I could imagine him as an emergency fill-in, but I'd feel a lot better if somebody like Weems were on the PS.

McDonald may not have prototypical tackle measurables, but the kid can play. Matt Light was about the same size (6'4"+ 305#), and I recall he did ok. I'm not sure about the arm length issue - I couldn't find anything about McDonald's arm length, but Matt Light had shortish arms (33 1/2"), which was apparently one reason he slipped to the 2nd round in 2001:

Scout.com: The Reiff Stuff: Lions rookie in good company

FWIW, BB had some nice things to say about McDonald last week:

In his second season with the Patriots, the 6-foot-4-inch, 305-pound McDonald has earned the respect of teammates for rising to the occasion in a pinch. Last December he was promoted off the practice squad and made his first career start 24 hours later, playing center Dec. 4 against the Colts. On Monday, he received plaudits from Bill Belichick for his play.

“We don’t have a lot of depth at tackle, so he was probably the most experienced — not that he has a lot of experience — but still the most experienced guy with also the athleticism to be able to play the position,” Belichick said. “I thought, really, he did a pretty good job out there for not much practice. He hadn’t done it a couple years and went back out there and really did a pretty credible job. That was great to see. There aren’t many offensive linemen in the league that can play all five spots. If he could do that, that would be very valuable to our football team.”

Nick McDonald brings versatility to Patriots - The Boston Globe

Practically gushing from the laconic BB. The SMY article also noted:

The Patriots currently have Nate Solder and Marcus Cannon at the starting tackle spots with Sebastian Vollmer (back) on the physically unable to perform list. Matt Kopa is nursing an ankle injury, and they’ve brought in rookies Darrion Weems, Kyle Hill, and Dustin Waldron to help at tackle. But it is McDonald who has the coaching staff’s trust.

“You’ve just got to know it. It’s not that big of a difference; some things are, but when you play guard you’ve kind of got to know what the tackle’s doing and every guy’s got to know different spots,” he said.

It was pretty easy jumping back into the mix at tackle, McDonald said, giving a brief synopsis of the differences between playing center, guard, and tackle.

“It’s not really that different. Scheme-wise it’s different, you’ve got to know different assignments, but playing center you know what the guard’s doing, playing guard you know what the tackle’s doing, so it all works together,” he said.

Sorry Patchick, but I'm sticking with McDonald as my OL binky and all-purpose offensive lineman, regardless of what his arm length turns out to be. I think he'll be more than an "emergency fill-in" at OT. I think he'll be a starting caliber OG/C and a pretty decent backup tackle. I think that McDonald's "processing skills" are very rare for an offensive lineman - they helped him play starting center decently on short notice last year, and they clearly are a factor in his ability to handle different line roles. Plus, not all effective tackles are built the same way. Mitchell Schwartz (one of my favorites for the Pats in the last draft) was drafted in the 2nd round (#37 overall). He's a slow guy without elite athleticism. But the Cal coaches all said he was the smartest lineman they ever coached, and he excelled at the Senior Bowl against elite competition, including doing a credible job at center when another player got injured, even though he had never played the position. McDonald, like Schwartz, has rare intelligence and understanding of how the line works, and I'm confident that he can hold his own.

Remember when people were so high on Max Unger in 2009? Or Barrett Jones for 2013? McDonald may not be as good as Jones, but I wouldn't be surprised if he ends up being better than Unger (2nd round pick, #49 overall), and as good as Schwartz. I'll settle for that.

 

[captain stone]

More quick thoughts on the OL -

Cannon & Solder stunk again tonight. Brady has to be getting nervous.

Probably just a coincidence, but after Wendell couldn't sustain a block during a screen pass
primed for a good gain, he was immed replaced by Koppen.

The UDFAs were all unimpressive, as was everybody else on the OL tonight. No pocket & no push.

 

[ATippett56]

More quick thoughts on the OL -

Cannon & Solder stunk again tonight. Brady has to be getting nervous.

Probably just a coincidence, but after Wendell couldn't sustain a block during a screen pass
primed for a good gain, he was immed replaced by Koppen.

The UDFAs were all unimpressive, as was everybody else on the OL tonight. No pocket & no push.

What's more concerning is the first half offensive line starters were on the roster last season:

Solder
Cannon
Koppen
Connolly
Wendell
Thomas
McDonald

 

[ATippett56]

The UDFAs were all unimpressive, as was everybody else on the OL tonight. No pocket & no push.

None of this year's UDFAs on the offensive line are worthy of the 53 man roster.

 

[LoganMankinsPancakeBlocks]

What's more concerning is the first half offensive line starters were on the roster last season:

Solder
Cannon
Koppen
Connolly
Wendell
Thomas
McDonald

And only 1 of them will start at the position they did tonight, Nate Solder. We are missing 3 Pro Bowl level players in Mankins, Waters and Vollmer...that will make a HUGE difference when they are back.

And yes, Brian Waters is absolutely coming back. If the guy was retiring, he'd just say it rather than giving no comment and putting up with reporters harrassing him on whether he'll be back or not. Bedard also mentioned on twitter that he still has a locker in the locker room.

He'll be back before week 1 and we'll have an offensive line of Solder/Mankins/Connolly/Waters/Vollmer and then light it up for 30 points or so. I do have some concern about our backup OT situation, but then again, what team doesn't? Certainly not a reason for panic like some fans and media are doing.

 

[ATippett56]

Certainly not a reason for panic like some fans and media are doing.

Not panicking but stating a concern. Two more preseason games to clean up glaring miscues on the offensive line.

 

[DocHoliday]

The idea that we need aging injured guys to play well is why we are panicking.

 

[captain stone]

Exactly.

Mankins & Vollmer are unreliable, and Waters will def not be here next year.

Bill must draft at least 2 1st/2nd-day OL talents next April: a G/C & a Tackle (not a RT-only blob,
but one capable of protecting Brady's blindside).

 

[LoganMankinsPancakeBlocks]

The idea that we need aging injured guys to play well is why we are panicking.

Show me 1 team in the NFL who doesn't need an aging player to play well. Flat out ridiculous to think your entire team is going to consist of 27 year olds in their prime. As for injured, if Welker can come back and play from week 1 on a fully torn ACL at a position totally dependent on cutting and moving on that knee to create seperation, pretty sure a guard in Mankins can come back from a partially torn ACL. Vollmer is the 1 concern for me, especially with how little depth we have at tackle. Cannon doesn't look up for the job at all.

Exactly.

Mankins & Vollmer are unreliable, and Waters will def not be here next year.

Bill must draft at least 2 1st/2nd-day OL talents next April: a G/C & a Tackle (not a RT-only blob,
but one capable of protecting Brady's blindside).

In what world is Mankins unreliable? The guy is an iron man and an elite guard. Or even if you want to hold last year's less than stellar year against him, you still can't call him unreliable as he was merely solid rather than top notch. The guy has never missed a game in his career except for holding out in '10. I believe he hadn't even missed a practiced until last year when he partially tore his ACL.

Vollmer, agreed, like I said earlier. That's my biggest concern for the line, his health combined with the lack of depth behind him. Hoping they can find an under the radar tackle during roster cuts who can at least be serviceable rather than the Wayne Hunter impression Cannon has been giving. Keep in mind we nearly had a perfect season with Nick Kazcur as our RT, so greatness is optional, not a neccessity.

The fact that Waters won't be here next year is irrelevent for this year's offensive line. Definitely agree that the line needs to be addressed in the draft and/or free agency next year due to that along with Vollmer's impending FA/health concerns, though.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

None of this year's UDFAs on the offensive line are worthy of the 53 man roster.

as OLT Kyle Hill was waived today

 

[Gronkandez]

Looking at the bright side:

At least we know Cannon isn't as bad as Wayne Hunter

Josh McD likes to throw screen passes to RB's.

 

[captain stone]

Show me 1 team in the NFL who doesn't need an aging player to play well. Flat out ridiculous to think your entire team is going to consist of 27 year olds in their prime. As for injured, if Welker can come back and play from week 1 on a fully torn ACL at a position totally dependent on cutting and moving on that knee to create seperation, pretty sure a guard in Mankins can come back from a partially torn ACL. Vollmer is the 1 concern for me, especially with how little depth we have at tackle. Cannon doesn't look up for the job at all.

In what world is Mankins unreliable? The guy is an iron man and an elite guard. Or even if you want to hold last year's less than stellar year against him, you still can't call him unreliable as he was merely solid rather than top notch. The guy has never missed a game in his career except for holding out in '10. I believe he hadn't even missed a practiced until last year when he partially tore his ACL.

Vollmer, agreed, like I said earlier. That's my biggest concern for the line, his health combined with the lack of depth behind him. Hoping they can find an under the radar tackle during roster cuts who can at least be serviceable rather than the Wayne Hunter impression Cannon has been giving. Keep in mind we nearly had a perfect season with Nick Kazcur as our RT, so greatness is optional, not a neccessity.

The fact that Waters won't be here next year is irrelevent for this year's offensive line. Definitely agree that the line needs to be addressed in the draft and/or free agency next year due to that along with Vollmer's impending FA/health concerns, though.

Fair enough re Mankins, and am agreement re next year's needs at OL via draft/free agency.

 

[AzPatsFan]

Quick thoughts on the O-line.

Patsfans are worry warts. When there are few real problems they must create an issue. The Pats playing without three starters on the O-line, and a newcomer replacing a fourth retiree, have given up all of 3 sacks in 2 games.

One sack of which was to a LB blitz to Mykyl Kendricks, who ran over the blitz-handling RB Vereen, who correctly tried to pick him up, and failed.

Concern sure, Genuine problem, hardly. The JESTs have given up 11 sacks in 2 games. Now they have a genuine problem...:snob:

 

[NinjaZX6R]

Quick thoughts on the O-line.

Patsfans are worry warts. When there are few real problems they must create an issue. The Pats playing without three starters on the O-line, and a newcomer replacing a fourth retiree, have given up all of 3 sacks in 2 games.

One sack of which was to a LB blitz to Mykyl Kendricks, who ran over the blitz-handling RB Vereen, who correctly tried to pick him up, and failed.

Concern sure, Genuine problem, hardly. The JESTs have given up 11 sacks in 2 games. Now they have a genuine problem...:snob:

You would think playing at Cal together & going against him in practice, would teach Vereen how to block him.

 

[Off The Grid]

You would think playing at Cal together & going against him in practice, would teach Vereen how to block him.

Yeah, but it would also teach Kendricks how to beat Vereen's blocks.

That wasn't good, of course...but Mychal Kendricks is a Force.

No shame in getting beat once by that Savage.

 

[patfanken]

I saw something yesterday. I'm not sure if was on the ESPN blog or the Globe. In it they broke down the difference combinations that played on the OL and how many plays they played. IIRC they had like 7 different groupings all playing pretty much an equal amount of plays. For example they had the 3 Centers (Wendall, Koppen, and McDonald) all getting 17-23 saps on 3 drives each. and Thomas getting the last 10.

The point being that if a great part of successful OL play is a matter of cohesion and the experience of playing together; NO one on the OL got either. Cannon and Solder seemed to have gotten the most snaps, but they rarely played more than 15-20 snaps with the same group.

Too often, we as fans, tend to look at an individual play and assign success or blame based on what we see. There are times when that assessment is correct. However there are also times where things might be better than they seem because of things we don't know.

Personally I'll chose to take comfort in the fact that BB gave both Solder and Cannon some props today. Maybe he was blowing smoke up their asses, but its also possible that maybe, after looking at the film he found more to like about their performances than to dislike. As fans and the media, sometimes we allow a single bad play or two to completely dictate our perceptions of the entire performance.

I find it very strange that the media and fans have done this with Solder based on 2 pre-season scrimmages for christ's sake, and will ignore the 16 regular season and playoff games he started and according to both FO"s and PFF, he played more than adequately

The Pats were missing EIGHT starters off their offense on Monday. You you think there just MIGHT have been a slight a lack of offensive consistency and smoothness. DUH! Lets try and keep some perspective here.

BTW- the defense was also missing 5 starters plus Wilson, and had another 5 who played only 12 snaps or less (Hightower, Jones, Spikes, Gregory, and Chung).

 

[The Scrizz]

Quick thoughts on the O-line.

Patsfans are worry warts. When there are few real problems they must create an issue. The Pats playing without three starters on the O-line, and a newcomer replacing a fourth retiree, have given up all of 3 sacks in 2 games.

One sack of which was to a LB blitz to Mykyl Kendricks, who ran over the blitz-handling RB Vereen, who correctly tried to pick him up, and failed.

Concern sure, Genuine problem, hardly. The JESTs have given up 11 sacks in 2 games. Now they have a genuine problem...:snob:

Lets not go comparing ourselves to Jets. Anything under a 5-1 ratio is unacceptable when talking about them. We should be 15-3 in sacks at minimum.

 

[patfanken]

=

Concern sure, Genuine problem, hardly. The JESTs have given up 11 sacks in 2 games. Now they have a genuine problem...:snob:

You know for all our generally inconsistent OL play and fan agnst, we HAVE only given up 2 sacks so far. I guess our version of "bad" is a lot different than the greenbeans'