Reiss on BB future

[Hoodie]

From his chat:

"I've had the chance to get to know Belichick a little better this year, and I think one of the things that can get overlooked in this discussion is what makes him tick as a football coach. I don't think he values a new challenge -- and building a winner elsewhere -- as much as he likes the idea of sustained excellence in one place, over a long period of time. I could be way off on this, but that's my read on the man. I think he's here for the long-term, understanding that he two key elements in place -- a Hall of Fame quarterback and an owner who gives him a lot of leeway. Things can change fast in this business, but right now, I don't see the end in sight."

http://chats.boston.com/n/pfx/forum.aspx?nav=auditorium&webtag=bc-patriotsmain&redirCnt=1

 

[BelichickFan]

Knock on wood, baby, knock on wood.

 

[PatsRI]

You mean he's not leaving like Borges and Felger say? I'm shocked.

 

[5 Rings for Brady!!]

I think it is much ado about nothing.

The only way Belichick leaves under ordinary circumstances is if his performance starts to deteriorate, in which case he gets fired, OR he and Kraft have a falling out over personal differences.

The performance has been fine to date, and should be okay for the near future.

Kraft could always get annoying if he wants Belichick to change his ways, i.e. dress better, give better press conferences, re-sign star players, not hit cameramen, stay out of messy divorces. In other words, if Kraft wants a more 'appealing' coach in the public eye (media glare), then that could create tension. But so far this stuff hasn't been an issue, as far as we can tell. And hopefully it won't be. I don't think Belichick needs to change anything. Just let the media get over it!

I don't think any of those scenarios will happen anytime soon, and I think all the speculation is made up by the media.

This has never been a newsworthy story in my mind, and I bet Bill is already signed thru 2010 at $5 million a year.

 

[oldskool138]

You mean he's not leaving like Borges and Felger say? I'm shocked.

Much to their chagrin, I'm sure.

 

[Patters]

That's certainly the best news of the day; though Rodney's possible recovery takes a close second.

 

[PatsFanSince74]

I'm really happy to read what Reiss had to say. That's been my impression of BB, gained from his comments during interviews and especially from reading David Halberstam's wonderful book, The Education of a Coach, which I regularly give as a gift to non-football people as well as Patriots fans.

However, I do think we're all naive if we don't acknowledge that money will have something to do with this. Belichick certainly isn't poor, but he has kids and what might fairly be called a complex personal life, at least as reported in the media. And, I don't think we can overlook that, whatever his concern about the verdict of Sports historians down the road, he is certainly someone who is attuned to how he is "valued" today in comparison to his (far less successful) peers.

Information on coaches' salaries isn't always reliable, but Forbes Magazine in December published its estimates (please don't get on my case if you think they're wrong, i'm just putting this out for discussion and Forbes is a reputable source.) If you know something else, just share it with us.

IF these numbers are correct then maybe there is an "issue" here. It's interesting to me that the rumors about BB's "unhappiness" flamed in December, right around when the article was published.

The magazine looks at the average annual salary a coach has earned over his time with a team. Here are the top ten:

Dungy: $3.6MM average (now $5MM)
John Fox: $3.4MM average (now $5MM)
Shanahan: $3.4MM
BB: $2.8MM average
Marty: $2.7MM average
Cowher: $2MM average ($4MM at time of resignation)
Lewis: $1.9MM average
Sean Payton: $1.8MM
Mora: $1.5MM average
Smith: $1.4MM average.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

This has never been a newsworthy story in my mind, and I bet Bill is already signed thru 2010 at $5 million a year.

FWIW Borges said in one of his chats this week that BB is signed through 2007 "with a team option". And Ron does have his sources in the agent community. As for the $5M I think you might be underestimating that just a little. I'm sure he's not hauling in silly money like Holmgren ($8.5M), at least not as a base. Saban was signed for $5M 2 years ago. And supposedly Cowher will command upwards of $9M when he re-enters the fray. BB is probably in the $6M+ incentives category, and he likely cleans up in incentives. Wouldn't be surprised if Pioli's deal is sweetened with post season incentives too.

 

[kptmorgan04]

I think that the telling thing to me has always been (this year especially) that he hasnt just gone out and done things for the short term future of the team (ie, adam and the twig) but for the long term. if he wasnt planning on being here long term he wouldnt care as much

 

[PromisedLand]

I'm really happy to read what Reiss had to say. That's been my impression of BB, gained from his comments during interviews and especially from reading David Halberstam's wonderful book, The Education of a Coach, which I regularly give as a gift to non-football people as well as Patriots fans.

However, I do think we're all naive if we don't acknowledge that money will have something to do with this. Belichick certainly isn't poor, but he has kids and what might fairly be called a complex personal life, at least as reported in the media. And, I don't think we can overlook that, whatever his concern about the verdict of Sports historians down the road, he is certainly someone who is attuned to how he is "valued" today in comparison to his (far less successful) peers.

Information on coaches' salaries isn't always reliable, but Forbes Magazine in December published its estimates (please don't get on my case if you think they're wrong, i'm just putting this out for discussion and Forbes is a reputable source.) If you know something else, just share it with us.

IF these numbers are correct then maybe there is an "issue" here. It's interesting to me that the rumors about BB's "unhappiness" flamed in December, right around when the article was published.

The magazine looks at the average annual salary a coach has earned over his time with a team. Here are the top ten:

Dungy: $3.6MM average (now $5MM)
John Fox: $3.4MM average (now $5MM)
Shanahan: $3.4MM
BB: $2.8MM average
Marty: $2.7MM average
Cowher: $2MM average ($4MM at time of resignation)
Lewis: $1.9MM average
Sean Payton: $1.8MM
Mora: $1.5MM average
Smith: $1.4MM average.

Forbes may be reputable (I used to subscribe), but they don't have magic access to this information - they probably have to compile it from published reports, etc., much like Miguel does for player salaries. Also, it doesn't make sense to compare average over time with a team - it only makes sense to compare current and contracted future pay. I am sure that RK is not going to allow BB to be unhappy about his salary as long as the team continues to win. RK is not stupid.

 

[PatsFanSince74]

Forbes may be reputable (I used to subscribe), but they don't have magic access to this information - they probably have to compile it from published reports, etc., much like Miguel does for player salaries. Also, it doesn't make sense to compare average over time with a team - it only makes sense to compare current and contracted future pay. I am sure that RK is not going to allow BB to be unhappy about his salary as long as the team continues to win. RK is not stupid.

1) Bottom Line: I hope you're right.

2) Forbes is probably using the average because it's a way of making things comparable and it is as good a read as any of the value of money received over time. And, until there's other or more reliable data, it's all we've got.

3) Re RK not being stupid. That's tautological, but I don't think it's possible to underestimate the role that ego and pride play in negotiations like this. They sometimes trump brains and reason.

 

[Rob0729]

I remember Scott Pioli being quoted before that he felt it was as big of a challenge to maintain a Super Bowl contender over the years as it is to build one from scratch. Maybe more so.

My guess is that both he and Belichick will ride this puppy until the thing falls apart or they get tired of football and need a break (ala Bill Cowher). Belichick probably looks at Parcells and sees that he never actually duplicated the success he had with the Giants and wonders if Parcells didn't bolt from the Giants whether they could had gotten one or two more championships.

Also, he probably remembers his Cleveland days where the owner totally threw him under the bus and figures he has it good with Kraft.

I don't get why people think coaches like Belichick long for going to another and creating a championship. Some coaches may like that challenge, but Belichick might like the challenge of remaining on top more. You didn't see Bill Gates leave Microsoft and start up a new company when his software dominated the PC market. Some guys can just see challenges and accomplishments in building on your success than seeking new challenges.

Don't forget if he wins three weeks from now, he will in position to go after a new challenge - the most Super Bowl wins by a head coach. I think he will be tied with Noll, but he probably wants sole possession.

 

[Armen Da Pats Fan]

From his chat:

"I've had the chance to get to know Belichick a little better this year, and I think one of the things that can get overlooked in this discussion is what makes him tick as a football coach. I don't think he values a new challenge -- and building a winner elsewhere -- as much as he likes the idea of sustained excellence in one place, over a long period of time. I could be way off on this, but that's my read on the man. I think he's here for the long-term, understanding that he two key elements in place -- a Hall of Fame quarterback and an owner who gives him a lot of leeway. Things can change fast in this business, but right now, I don't see the end in sight."

http://chats.boston.com/n/pfx/forum.aspx?nav=auditorium&webtag=bc-patriotsmain&redirCnt=1

Your lips to God's ear, Reiss, baby!

 

[PlattsFan]

One thing that's totally clear about Bill Belichick is that he's a junkie for football history. And he knows the truly iconic coaches built their reps in one place: Lombardi/GB, Brown/Cleveland, Shula/Miami, Noll/Pitt, Landry/Dallas ... I'd bet he can imagine no higher ambition than being placed in that sort of pantheon as Belichick/NE.

So why leave?

 

[alamo]

IThe magazine looks at the average annual salary a coach has earned over his time with a team. Here are the top ten:

No way to know whether this is total compensation or just salary, I've heard BB and Pioli basically have their own incentive bonus systems by which they have done well (no idea how true this is though).

Also, if that is just the top ten of all the coaches in the league, that's not bad at all, even if he's not #1 BB surely isn't being cheated.

 

[patchick]

No way to know whether this is total compensation or just salary, I've heard BB and Pioli basically have their own incentive bonus systems by which they have done well (no idea how true this is though).

Exactly..."salary" and compensation are not the same thing. Just ask any CEO with a $500K salary and $50 mil in options.

We have no clue what BB and SP earn, but it is ABSOLUTELY INCONCEIVABLE to me that the Krafts would be stingy with them. These owners are much, much too smart for that.

 

[g-fresh]

One thing that's totally clear about Bill Belichick is that he's a junkie for football history. And he knows the truly iconic coaches built their reps in one place: Lombardi/GB, Brown/Cleveland, Shula/Miami, Noll/Pitt, Landry/Dallas ... I'd bet he can imagine no higher ambition than being placed in that sort of pantheon as Belichick/NE.

So why leave?

Absolutely, he knows he's got a good situation in NE and that if he keeps things going well he has a chance to be one of the iconic coaches in NFL history.

Add to that the fact that Kraft knows that BB is the biggest reason that the Pats have been so successful and he will spend as much as it takes to keep him here. Remember there's no salary cap for coaches, and Kraft knows he'll make way more as an owner paying BB the most in the league and winning instead of saving a small bit in the short term only to rebuild and lose huge amounts of money in the long term.

 

[Danny Boy®]

One thing that's totally clear about Bill Belichick is that he's a junkie for football history. And he knows the truly iconic coaches built their reps in one place: Lombardi/GB, Brown/Cleveland, Shula/Miami, Noll/Pitt, Landry/Dallas ... I'd bet he can imagine no higher ambition than being placed in that sort of pantheon as Belichick/NE.

So why leave?

I agree...as much as I think the rumors about Myra (shut up and just shop) Kraft are true, I think Bill is a historian. He knows that it would be a huge deal for his father if he was in the record books as a coach that coached a team to 7 SB victories.

 

[Danny Boy®]

Kraft knows he'll make way more as an owner paying BB the most in the league .

Really? So why isnt he the highest paid? Why is Fox and Dungy ahead of him? Krafty loves his money more than winning.

 

[5 Rings for Brady!!]

FWIW Borges said in one of his chats this week that BB is signed through 2007 "with a team option". And Ron does have his sources in the agent community. As for the $5M I think you might be underestimating that just a little. I'm sure he's not hauling in silly money like Holmgren ($8.5M), at least not as a base. Saban was signed for $5M 2 years ago. And supposedly Cowher will command upwards of $9M when he re-enters the fray. BB is probably in the $6M+ incentives category, and he likely cleans up in incentives. Wouldn't be surprised if Pioli's deal is sweetened with post season incentives too.

I can't keep up with these rapidly rising salaries, but I guess college coaches are gonna earn $5 million after Saban's signing.

Chump change!