Did I just hear "The players don't really like [BB]" AGAIN?

[Seymour93]

he said BB yells at his players and brady acts as the ambassdor ..he tried it in cleveland and didnt work becos brady was not there.....he ended by saying the funniest line..
"this is tom brady's team not belichick's" ...go ask deion branch why brady didnt keep him

Did Plaschke say all that too? I caught it at the end where he declared that Pats don't really like The Jerk aka BB.

 

[PatsFan24]

remember when tom jackson said that....he tried to congradulate BB after wining the SB that year and BB responded with a "f--- you"

 

[MDPATSFAN]

It doesn't matter if the players like BB, all that matters is that they respect him and that the team produces victories.

Some of these pundits need to do a little time in the military!

 

[SVN]

he said BB yells at his players and brady acts as the ambassdor ..he tried it in cleveland and didnt work becos brady was not there.....he ended by saying the funniest line..
"this is tom brady's team not belichick's" ...go ask deion branch why brady didnt keep him

yup...not the deion branch thing of course..thats what i added .
He said BB is jerk. his players dont like him...he yells and screams at his players Brady acts as his ambassador which he didnt have in cleveland and failed. This tom brady's team not belichick
Woody paige of all people sounded the most sane. Said its BB not brady..he has defenses which allow only 17 pts so brady is helped that way, he replaces players consistently etc etc

 

[pats1]

I think "hate" is too strong a word, but I think something like this is probably true. Belichick is not supposed to be friends with these guys, he's the head coach. They may not have warm and fuzzy feelings for him, but I can guarantee you they respect him.

This might already have been posted, but here was the SI players poll a few weeks back on which coaches were the hardest/easiest on their players.

Hardest:
Bill Parcells, Cowboys.....34%
Tom Coughlin, Giants.....30%
Nick Saban, Dolphins.....11%
Bill Belichick, Patriots.....9%
Marty Schottenheimer, Chiefs.....2%
Bill Cowher, Steelers.....2%
Jon Gruden, Bucs.....2%
Rod Marinelli, Lions.....2%
Eric Mangini, Jets.....2%
John Fox, Panthers.....1%

Easiest:
Tony Dungy, Colts.....28%
Herm Edwards, Chiefs.....13%
Brian Billick, Ravens.....11%
Dennis Green, Cardinals.....6%
Mike Shanahan, Broncos.....6%
Jim Mora Jr., Falcons.....4%
Lovie Smith, Bears.....3%
**** Jauron, Bills.....3%
Jon Gruden, Bucs.....2%
Andy Reid, Eagles.....2%

Schottenheimer...Chiefs?

 

[NEPat]

Schottenheimer...Chiefs?

Yeah, guess they didn't catch that...Forgot to add the link:
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/players/01/09/poll.0109/index.html

He said BB is jerk. his players dont like him...he yells and screams at his players Brady acts as his ambassador which he didnt have in cleveland and failed. This tom brady's team not belichick

Oh my God, he YELLS?? The horror.

 

[Seymour93]

yup...not the deion branch thing of course..thats what i added .
He said BB is jerk. his players dont like him...he yells and screams at his players Brady acts as his ambassador which he didnt have in cleveland and failed. This tom brady's team not belichick
Woody paige of all people sounded the most sane. Said its BB not brady..he has defenses which allow only 17 pts so brady is helped that way, he replaces players consistently etc etc

It may be true that the players don't love BB like how the Chiefs love Herman Edwards. But how does a columnist for a Los Angeles paper know the mindset of New England players when no one else can get a pulse on it?

 

[SVN]

It may be true that the players don't love BB like how the Chiefs love Herman Edwards. But how does a columnist for a Los Angeles paper know the mindset of New England players when no one else can get a pulse on it?

as i said there was another show on ESPN which discussed "is brady overrated?"
go figure
i think its neither brady or belichick . its marquise hill...his bench presence gives incentive for BB and brady to work harder...

 

[NH-Pats-Fanatic]

Hey, give the guy a break... He's from LA where they have no football. So what's a football columnist to do in LA? He's put his journalist degree to the test and created a story that sounded good (to him).

Tony Dungy gettin all the love! how nice is that. Explain this to me though. Why was Schottenheimer's job on the line and Dungy's isnt? I find it odd that all of Schottenheimer's losses were his hurdles to overcome but the Colts hurdles belong to Peyton.

 

[Patriotic Fervor]

Schottenheimer...Chiefs?

Wait! Where does Art Shell fall in the overall scheme of things?

(no knock on Shell - he deserved a much, much better fate!)

 

[unoriginal]

Wait! Where does Art Shell fall in the overall scheme of things?

(no knock on Shell - he deserved a much, much better fate!)

In order to be eligable for this poll the players have to consider you a head coach.

 

[420jim]

Wait! Where does Art Shell fall in the overall scheme of things?

(no knock on Shell - he deserved a much, much better fate!)

In order to be eligible for this poll the players have to consider you a head coach.

Art Shell was a lame duck head coach from the minute he signed the contract


By the way, I know the pats have an OC and a DC but if one of them were to leave this off season, Shell wouldn't be a bad replacement. Or if cleveland fires Romeo next year, maybe BB could get him back. Just a couple of thoughts while I'm waiting til sunday.

 

[Remix 6]

i hate dealing with these rumors and crap every year were doign great "his players hate him" "hes going to ditch the Patriots and go to Giants or Texans!" "BB doesnt respect his great players..lets them walk"

but they make their money like that(reporters and ****)..doesnt bother me..if it was true..im pretty sure we'd have people demanding trade/holding out and not even attempting to negotiate a new contract.

i guess being the best coach..they need to find something bad about u

 

[Kdo5]

This is sort of offtopic but Jacky McMullen replied to an email I sent and told me that Belichick was "a flawed man" after I told her she was wrong about BB not shaking Mangini's hand. Why must this world try to make Bill look like satan?

 

[Remix 6]

everyones flawed..not 1 person is perfect

 

[Kdo5]

everyones flawed..not 1 person is perfect

Thats what I told that biatch.

She called me Kurt Angle too. Damn I dislike this woman.

 

[PatsFaninAZ]

remember when tom jackson said that....he tried to congradulate BB after wining the SB that year and BB responded with a "f--- you"

I think that's the best story in Halberstam's book. I think there's a little more to it than that. Jackson said it after the 31-0 loss to Buffalo, I believe. Belichick called him on it privately and Jackson admitted that he hadn't talked to any players. Belichick asked him to retract, and Jackson refused, leading to Belichick's reaction after the superbowl.

There's a fair amount in Halberstam's book about how Belichick's early coaching experiences gave him a very clear sense of the difference between being the players' friend and the players' coach, and it took him a lot of time and experience to find the right balance. I think it's pretty clear that he has the right balance, and the reality is that the balance is not going to be exactly what every player wants. But Belichick doesn't care, because the kind of players he wants are the ones that want a coach who helps them to play better, and if they want something else, they are probably in the wrong place. At least, that's what you get from Halberstam's book.

 

[the taildragger]

I heard the entire segment.

Plaschke is ignorant...but while I don't agree with his reasoning, I absolutely agree with the overall conclusion to the original question:

"who deserves MORE credit, Bill or Tom?"

This is it. Five years ago we all said Bill (I was guilty myself)...five years from now we'll say Tom and I'll explain why.

It's not all or nothing either way...

We always hear about how great our coaches are at MAKING IN GAME ADJUSTMENTS. No QB allows his coaches to make more adjustments than Tom...he can do it all...Peyton's coaches are far more limited in what they can do differently at halftime...the range of possibilities is huge with TB...Bill's still a genius with Alex Smith, he just can't prove it to anyone...that's why Tom and Bill have SYNERGY.

Look, in no other sport is coaching as vital as in football. You can't diminish Bill's role. Coach and QB have always been the key cogs in the wheel but they're even more valuable today in the parity era.

Let me start off by explaining why I think Bill is the best organizational mind (if not football tactician) in the business.

The league is still in the midst of a major transition from the old guard to the new guard. Most franchises are still largely run by executives who cut their teeth in the pre-parity era...today there are far more economic constraints in play and you have to have a totally different paradigm to be successful...Bill's driven almost exclusively by positional value and PROPORTIONAL premiums based on the individual talent level of a player at their respective position.

Bill has really been leading the charge on this. He's not been perfect, but there are other factors at work (hardball agents, etc.) but here's the thing: He hasn't needed to be PERFECT...There are still owners in this league who are willing to dish out $100M for a guy like Mike Vick despite having a far superior franchise QB sitting on the bench...and EVERYONE knows it.

The competitive balance of the league is still somewhat out of whack because the league has been slow to adapt to the free-agency and cap parity eras. Bill has been able to exploit that to an extent.

In short, there's a lot of incompetence remaining at the top of the league...nice people who are good football minds but who will eventually get weeded out as the league continues to evolve. The value gurus are just over the horizon (say goodbye to Mel Kiper and Todd McShay who have no concept of this stuff)...if you think there's parity now just wait about five more years. But at the end of the day you still need to have an eye for talent.

With Bill we have the best of both worlds.

Having said all that, this much is still undeniable...

Bill HAD a track record prior to TB and it wasn't exactly pretty. It's hardly exaggeration to say that his reputation was as low as anyone else in the league...to a point where the league was actually advising teams to be wary of him. If not for Mo Lewis I honestly think Bill was on his way out the door in 02...sooner or later it would've happened. Back then Bledsoe was the ultimate coach killer. Tom not only saved Bill's career, but within four years of Brady's ascension, we came to view Bill as a first ballot Hall of Famer...and today he's universally viewed as one of all time greats.

I'm not going to take anything away from Bill.

The question wasn't who deserved NO CREDIT...it's who deserves MORE.

Somebody please explain to me how a coach with the track record Bill had, goes from being on his way out the door -- and permanently relegated to the coordinator ranks -- to where he is now, in such a short period?

Woody Paige asked, "how many rings would brady have in cleveland"...but refused to ask the question, "how many would Bill have with Drew Bledsoe." I see Tom getting at least one ring almost anywhere else...I not only give Bill zero rings with Bledsoe (who was better than at least half the QBs in the league at the time and the highest paid of all), but I actually think Drew would've outlasted Bill in New England.

Marriotti actually rehashed the old "system QB" argument...no joke...accused Tom of somehow benefiting from playing with great-find receivers like Gaffney and Caldwell...and actually tried to give Bill more credit for the success in the "passing game"!...Jay Marrioti should be fired. He even compared Tom to Kurt Warner (the ultimate system QB).

Marriotti's argument was actually so bad that I think he did Bill a disservice.

If TB were a system QB...an interchangeable part...he would not be earning such a large portion of the cap relative to other players on the team...at least in an organization that takes cap discipline as seriously as NE.

No organization and no coach understands the positional value of QB more than the Pats and Bill...and nobody appreciates the premium on TB above all other QBs as much as Bill.

Chicken and the egg...Bill drafted Tom when nobody else saw anything in him...that certainly counts for a lot right there (I assure you it counts for a lot in Tom's eyes -- even though it was clearly more a case of one team being slightly less blind than all the rest).

Bill's the architect of the dynasty...but the grand designs and schemes don't work without Tom. By contrast, you can't say that Montana made his system...what you can say for Montana is that he ran it better than anyone else ever has or ever will...but you can't say the system was doomed without him.

Ultimately what made Walsh, Lombardi, Gibbs, Noll, Landry, Paul Brown, Halas and Lambeau all GREAT is the same thing that makes Bill great today...they brought in outstanding players. But back then you could hide a QB more than you can under a salary cap.

Bill deals with way more constraints than those other guys...but he's also got the thing figured out better than the rest of the league.

Football isn't chess, it's PHYSICAL! Not in a chaotic way of course but it's not really clockwork arena league stuff either...and that's why Peyton is overrated.

Tom and Bill have an awesome synergy...they're made for each other. I just happen to believe there are about ten other coaches in this league who could form a similar synergy with Tom, yet I can't think of a single QB who would complement Bill nearly as well as TB.

Plus #12 just flat out amazing on the field -- still largely underrated from a talent/skills perspective...though that's finally starting to change too.

don't take it the wrong way...Tom's fortunate to play with Bill...and I've tried to lay that out too......I just don't think it's close in terms of who deserves MORE credit between the two...and I become even more convinced each season.

longest post ever?
:bricks:

 

[bruinator]

everyones flawed..not 1 person is perfect

Find one flaw...I dare you!!!!!!!!!

 

[RayClay]

It may be true that the players don't love BB like how the Chiefs love Herman Edwards. But how does a columnist for a Los Angeles paper know the mindset of New England players when no one else can get a pulse on it?

Course they like Herm, it's like having a substitute teacher every day.

"If you need to use the rest room, sign the sheet"

Pat McGroin, Mike Hunt, Ben Dover, Eileen Dover, **** Hurtz.........