Amoeba 2-4-5

[woolster22]

I think it is the way to go against your pass heavy offenses...

Wilfork+big to be named-2
Jones/Hightower/Mayo/spikes/bequette-4
...-5

Obviously some players left out, but a quick glance has a decent fit. Lots of tweener db players drafted, Wilfork and fanene/love? as your big two demanding attention, followed by your los attributed lbs (figure one or two min per play, sub'd accordingly) paired with a coverage/blitz duo. Commence with the five player pass defense...

I guess its kind of what like Baltimore has had and continues to have(maybe...RayRay isn't getting any younger, there's a reason they wanted Hightower...Hightower is the guy I figured for a wet dream replacement candidate for Spikes when he wants to get paid, albeit drafted a year early...) It won't surprise me if the bills dline wins them a game in the playoffs(assuming their offense gets a grip). The bigs up front are hard to argue with, and when surrounded by versatile linebackers would seem to match up well in theory. Throw two cover corners, a run/spy s, and two athletic, smart (maybe with man cover skills) safety types...not many offenses are built towards the run these days...

Staying true to the two gap mentality, the two bigs are doing as much...the rest well...amoeba...as mayo deems fit?

P.S
Here is to hoping Ridley/Vereen prove to be worthy of calling run plays/screens against the pass...as well as gronk staying healthy. This team seems to have many of the tools, hopefully they all stay healthy, buy in and gel into roles as the season matures.
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[neuronet]

what I love about this post is that it was sent from a cell phone. It must have been such a pain to write.

 

[Avenger]

what I love about this post is that it was sent from a cell phone. It must have been such a pain to write.

I actually type faster on my phone with Swype.

 

[mayoclinic]

The mods might want to role this into the thread started yesterday by Mo on the evolution of the passing attack and how defenses can combat it. Regardless, I think that the new "base" defense will have 5 DBs with 6 being more common than 4, and that the front 6 will need to morph between 4-2-5, 3-3-5 and 2-4-5 schemes on a regular basis, with more amoeboid forms becoming more common. Confusion will be a key element in slowing down offenses, and disguising both coverages and front formations will be critical.

 

[SwedishPat]

The problem with 2 d-lines is that it opens up the run more. Even if you have two players who two gaps. The problem is also that it is hard for a d-line to control two gaps and do it good. I think that it is much better with atleast 3 dlines.

 

[strngplyr]

The problem with 2 d-lines is that it opens up the run more. Even if you have two players who two gaps. The problem is also that it is hard for a d-line to control two gaps and do it good. I think that it is much better with atleast 3 dlines.

The very FIRST line reads as follows:

I think it is the way to go against your pass heavy offenses...

 

[mayoclinic]

The problem with 2 d-lines is that it opens up the run more. Even if you have two players who two gaps. The problem is also that it is hard for a d-line to control two gaps and do it good. I think that it is much better with atleast 3 dlines.

By "2 d-lines" do you mean "2 defensive linemen"? In the 2-4-5 you start with only 2 guys playing out of a 3 point stance, but you have guys who are standing up who are capable of moving up and functioning as linemen, or playing as LBs, or dropping into coverage. That's part of what makes it so versatile. But you need at least 2 very stout DLs to man the front line in order to pull it off. That's one reason I was hoping the Pats would have drafted someone like Alameda Ta'amu last year, and why I'm hoping that they'll draft at least one big DT in 2013 to pair with Wilfork.

 

[mayoclinic]

A nice discussion of the increasing trend towards more Amoeboid defenses in the NFL, from over a year and a half ago:

More and more teams are showing a sort of free-floating defensive front, in which linemen and linebackers mill about, feigning indifference to alignment or adopting upright stances not normally associated with down linemen. Like anything new, it seems odd. And like anything successful, it's being copied.

After the Cleveland Browns beat the New Orleans Saints and New England Patriots -- and not coincidentally, two of football's finest contemporary quarterbacks in Drew Brees and Tom Brady -- the milling face also has appeared in New York Giants blue, say, or Washington Redskins maroon.

New Orleans Coach Sean Payton said it's only the attention being paid to the odd formations that's new. He said it's something those putting NFL defenses under the microscope first identified some years past, and he hinted the scheme's DNA is being unraveled.

"I don't think it's a fad. We've seen it in years past," he said. "I think it's something that for the last couple or three years you've seen more and more, especially on third down. I wouldn't say it's anything new. It's something that has existed now for a couple of years."

Payton said the key to combating the amoeba quicksand lies in down-and-distance. Because the formations involve uncertainty in who the defense finally will put on the line, its effectiveness is generally limited to obvious passing situations. After all, a formation that has two defensive linemen at each end of the line and no one in the middle, as the Redskins briefly used against the Philadelphia Eagles on Monday night, won't hold up against the run even if the opponent doesn't have Michael Vick at quarterback.

New Orleans Saints: 'Amoeba defense' nothing new - New Orleans Saints Football NFL News - NOLA.com

Seattle experimented with 7 DB "bandit" packages and various amoeboid fronts over the past 2 years, with variable success:

The Seahawks' Amoeba Defense - Field Gulls

Rex Ryan was proclaimed a "genius" for us use of the Ameoba:

The Football Juice: Amoeba Defense Proves Ryan a Genius

Most teams in the NFL have used various versions of it, with some success. Like most schemes, personnel is key. If you have enough versatile personnel up front, in the middle, and in the defensive backfield, then you can do a lot of things. I would expect to see more of it as the Pats' defensive personnel get up to speed.

New Orleans Saints: 'Amoeba defense' nothing new - New Orleans Saints Football NFL News - NOLA.com

 

[woolster22]

Just got a new one, rezound for eighty before the pan change on big red...needed an excuse to work the key board and I found myself here...

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[woolster22]

By "2 d-lines" do you mean "2 defensive linemen"? In the 2-4-5 you start with only 2 guys playing out of a 3 point stance, but you have guys who are standing up who are capable of moving up and functioning as linemen, or playing as LBs, or dropping into coverage. That's part of what makes it so versatile. But you need at least 2 very stout DLs to man the front line in order to pull it off. That's one reason I was hoping the Pats would have drafted someone like Alameda Ta'amu last year, and why I'm hoping that they'll draft at least one big DT in 2013 to pair with Wilfork.

That's next year's double dip, with oline being my second guess. The move has paid dividends so far, hopefully it continues this year and into the future. Albeit, this year BB took it a step further with three players functionally identified for two positions. Throw in a few db types and I am anxiously awaiting seeing this defense gel. If they wind up any where near expectations, on the same street even, we will all be thoroughly impressed.

Match that with an offense that could very well exceed the 07 teams dominance. Logan needs to get healthy, center has many serviceable options, but is on the upgradable list; tackle seems paper thin, and we need waters back... I hope solder bulked up this off-season, he got abused in "that game redux". Unfortunately, I would call the line the weakest link on the offense right now...and that scares me.

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[mayoclinic]

That's next year's double dip, with oline being my second guess.

Go to the Draft forum, where that's been discussed a few hundred times.

 

[Patriot 37]

I think it is the way to go against your pass heavy offenses...

Wilfork+big to be named-2
Jones/Hightower/Mayo/spikes/bequette-4
...-5

I agree they will use something like this against passing heavy teams and on passing downs.

My question is against a team like Baltimore that passes and runs pretty equally can they get away with a front 4 of Bequette/Cunningahm at DE Wilfork and Fanene at DT and Jones/Carter at the other DE (3 LBs and 4DBs) on 1st down.

Most of last year our 1st down 4 man line was Deadrick Wilfork Love and Carter. If we can get more pass rushers on the line while still be able to stop the run that would be huge. Curious to see if people think the DL I mentioned above can stop the run.

 

[woolster22]

I agree they will use something like this against passing heavy teams and on passing downs.

My question is against a team like Baltimore that passes and runs pretty equally can they get away with a front 4 of Bequette/Cunningahm at DE Wilfork and Fanene at DT and Jones/Carter at the other DE (3 LBs and 4DBs) on 1st down.

Most of last year our 1st down 4 man line was Deadrick Wilfork Love and Carter. If we can get more pass rushers on the line while still be able to stop the run that would be huge. Curious to see if people think the DL I mentioned above can stop the run.

I think one of the biggest questions about this dline is whether Fanene can come in and demand a double team even periodically, taking some heat off of Vince and opening things up for everyone else. If he can come in and do this regularly, me and ten other posters could trot out on offense and make the playoffs

The rest of the NFL should be taking notes. A play, decision, finger tip catch the other way...well lets not dwell on the past (hey OBrian...I hope you choke on popcorn watching the team you couldn't coach dominate the league). Then they come out and do what nobody thought they would, and traded up twice in the first to pick up what are hopefully the missing thouroughbreds for the defensive side of the ball. No more settling for Cleighsdales with injuries! I have great expectations for this team healthy. Oline depth could be better, and we need a backup (dare i say eventual replacement?!) for Vince.