Pass Offense Complexity and WR Adjustments

[RayClay]

Greg Knopping chimes in on the Farrar article:



Complexity of the Patriots Passing Offense - Pats Pulpit

I agree with Knopping's answer. But perhaps the Pats need to be more selective in which college and veteran WRs they target. Bethel Johnson, Chad Jackson, Joey Galloway and Chad Ochocinco/Johnson - not guys who distinguished themselves by their precision route running, their ability to read defenses, or their ability to make in-play adjustments. Taylor Price came out of a system which poorly prepared him for the kind of schemes the Pats run and which cost him a late start in 2010 to boot. And maybe we should alter our expectations a bit and expect a certain failure rate intrinsic to the complexity of the system. Even under the best of circumstances it's probably unrealistic to assume that every veteran or rookie targeted will pick up the system and develop a rapport with Brady. Given how successful the results have been, that seems like an acceptable price to pay, as long as the team limits its investment and exposure and moves on. Unfortunately, it may have cost us a shot at a ring or two when things didn't work out as planned, but I'm not sure how to change that without going back to the drawing board. At least 28 other teams would love to have this problem.

I think it might be more of a knack, which makes it difficult to predict. What advantage did Deion Branch or Givens have over some of these guys?

Part of it's study and hard work, but part is reaction. You definitely have to get beyond the mechanical so it's second nature.

Also, the quick twitch guys seem to excel. If you don't get jammed at the line, only the last 1% of the route matters and that one quick step is it. (maybe)

Of course, multiple receivers in concert are creating either/or situations that can be uncoverable if the receiversmake the right adjustments for the play (not to get themselves "open.")

 

[MoLewisrocks]

I don't have the issue you do with this. He had a caretaker QB (Orton) to hold the fort until Tebow was ready, and Thomas is a great prospect .

I have an issue with that on multiple levels. Josh managed to be seduced by pure talent on the one hand and little more than intangibles on the other...he had little or no margin for error. And coming from a system where neither in and of itself fits the profile and landing on a team where talent had culturally trumped intangibles... I think he was screwed when he couldn't pull the trigger on Cutler fast enough to land Cassel. And it was all for naught from then on.

Coaches are often seduced by elite, measurables talent. Probably because they find it near impossible to comprehend how little of it by it's nature has even the capacity to exhibit intangibles.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

I think it might be more of a knack, which makes it difficult to predict. What advantage did Deion Branch or Givens have over some of these guys?

Part of it's study and hard work, but part is reaction. You definitely have to get beyond the mechanical so it's second nature.

Also, the quick twitch guys seem to excel. If you don't get jammed at the line, only the last 1% of the route matters and that one quick step is it. (maybe)

Of course, multiple receivers in concert are creating either/or situations that can be uncoverable if the receivers make the right adjustments for the play (not to get themselves "open.")

And that sums up the continued value in Branch that many here cannot grasp. He remains on the field even when he isn't getting open because he's helping others to and doing all the little things (per his QB and coaches) that allow the system to succeed. Branch can run every route, maybe not as well as other players can due to physical limitations, but his understanding of what everyone on the field is supposed to be doing as it relates to what he is being asked to do and his ability to line up anywhere in up tempo situations remains invaluable in this system. Gaffney developed a similar skillset when he was here, which is why he never should have been allowed to leave. Lloyd projects to have developed a similar skillset elsewhere that should translate here. He doesn't have to be open by much to catch the ball, which is also a key part of the skillset especially when you have a QB like Tom targeting you. Stallworth has a different skillset and while familiar with the system he was never on that level. Which is why he will be on the bubble depending on roster space.

 

[Ring 6]

On a related note, Demaryius Moore notes that with Peyton Manning now in Denver he has actually had to learn how to run some routes:



With Peyton Manning aboard, Broncos receivers actually have to learn routes now | Shutdown Corner - Yahoo! Sports

It's somewhat befuddling to me that an offensive mind as creative and sharp as Josh McDaniels' could be repsonsible for drafting a WR with no experience running routes and an option QB with no accuracy and poor mechanics with two 1st round picks.

I dont think Thomas was overdrafted and I think he proved that last year.
I was never a fan of the Tebow pick, but I understand it, and I have no problem with a coach who has the attitude that he will take a winner with a tremendous work ethic and attitude and a history of success and work with his deficiencies. I think I'd have a bigger issue with a coach who lacked the constitution to do that.

 

[Deus Irae]

I have an issue with that on multiple levels. Josh managed to be seduced by pure talent on the one hand and little more than intangibles on the other...he had little or no margin for error. And coming from a system where neither in and of itself fits the profile and landing on a team where talent had culturally trumped intangibles... I think he was screwed when he couldn't pull the trigger on Cutler fast enough to land Cassel. And it was all for naught from then on.

Coaches are often seduced by elite, measurables talent. Probably because they find it near impossible to comprehend how little of it by it's nature has even the capacity to exhibit intangibles.

Thomas is a hell of a prospect, and he's shown that when healthy. It's not the fault of McDaniels that he had a foot injury which has hampered him. Tebow, for all that the people of this site like to bag on him, took his team to the playoffs and beat the Steelers. As for what you claim does, or doesn't, fit the profile, the Patriots have shown many times that any such profile that might exist is not etched in stone. The Patriots have deviated from your theoretical profile time and again, to the same sort of varying results they've gotten when they've not deviated from it.

 

[patfanken]

I think the success or failure of a WR in this offense depends NOT on brains, or even work ethic. Its simply the matter of having the ability to PROCESS information after the snap fast enough to be effective. Just as some QBs are able to make "good decisions" under extreme pressure, so too SOME WR's are capable of doing the same.....and SOME are not. I don't think not being able to do it makes you a dumb or untalented receiver, just one that won't thrive in THIS particular offense...with this particular QB.

IMHO, its just a skill that you either have or don't, just like how fast you can run, or quick you can accelerate in and out of your breaks. I think the real question is why the staff can't predetermine whether a WR has that skill BEFORE he comes here. Clearly it is not an easy skill to determine, otherwise we wouldn't have had so many high profile failures.

Remember the same year that Joey Galloway, a proven successful NFL WR, failed miserably and was cut, Julian Edelman, who had never been a WR a single day in his life, managed to be effective when he got his chances. It only points out how hard it must be to tell who has "it" and who doesn't.

The other thing that I'm having trouble coming to grips with is the realization that our new "deep threat" runs a 4.7 forty. I guess it shows how "speed" is just one small factor in the success of a WR on any given play.

 

[Joker]

The other thing that I'm having trouble coming to grips with is the realization that our new "deep threat" runs a 4.7 forty. I guess it shows how "speed" is just one small factor in the success of a WR on any given play.

He ran a 4.62 at the combine. U. Of Illinois sports information had him timed in 4.49. Here's the best fleshing out of who Lloyd is as a player that I've yet to find....read it...stop fretting about his 40 time....

The Broncography of Brandon Lloyd - It's All Over, Fat Man!

 

[patfanken]

He ran a 4.62 at the combine. U. Of Illinois sports information had him timed in 4.49. Here's the best fleshing out of who Lloyd is as a player that I've yet to find....read it...stop fretting about his 40 time....

The Broncography of Brandon Lloyd - It's All Over, Fat Man!

No, I'm not "fretting" at all. I just find it ironic that everyone is looking for that 4.2-4.3 "field stretcher". and the guy who will do it for us ran a 4.6....... 9 years ago

That being said, I have NEVER been one to base anything on a 40 time. Quickness and acceleration are MUCH more important factors in judging a WR's skills. Reportedly what separates Lloyd from other receivers is his extraordinary body control that allows him position himself to catch the call even when he's "covered"

BTW- thanks for the link - It was an interesting and entertaining article

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Sometime there are other underlying issues. A couple of years ago I recall Brady making some comments about young players today and video games, something he never dabbled in. Said the only video he watched at home was game film... I was just reading about Quinn Pit****, the kid who quit after his rookie season in Indy, because he was addicted to the video game Call of Duty. Buried in the article was a reference to Ocho...

'Call of Duty' disrupts Ochocinco's marriage proposal - NFL.com