OT: Vilma walks on out Bounty-Gate hearing

[DaBruinz]

Jonathan Vilma walks out on bounty appeal, rips Roger Goodell - NFL - Sporting News

We will not address the substance of the NFL’s case because this is not the proper venue for adjudication, and there has been no semblance of due process afforded to us.

I found this statement funny because they've already gone to the two Special Masters that the NFLPA and NFL agreed to and both Masters said that Goodell was within his right to levy the punishments that he did.

And, since when is there any sort of "due process" beyond the Commish saying "You broke this rule, here is your punishment"?? This isn't a criminal trial or a civil one. It's one that you agreed to via the CBA.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

This is just playing for the audience. I guess the hearings are all over now. 12 members of the media were invited in to view evidence. Per Peter King who was calling for NFL to release more, it is compelling. Bounty on Favre was up to $35K and interim HC Vitt kicked $5K into that pool. Lots of bounty records were kept on Saints computers...

It's been a tough stretch for the NFLPA. Even Doty doesn't seem interested in engaging in their bs whining anymore...

 

[ausbacker]

That's a good way to earn public respect Vilma, walk out of the hearing you requested. He's coming across as a self entitled whiny knob.

 

[TyronePoole]

I don't know about the rest of them, but the narrative that's been proposed in regards to Scott Fujita runs totally contrary to everything I've ever seen of him and his character inside and outside of the NFL. I am very skeptical that the NFL has a strong case against him.

They may not be entitled to "due process" in regards to the CBA but that doesn't make it right; we have due process in our legal system for a reason. Without it you have ht potential for one guy like Goodell to hold a kangaroo court solely for the purposes of mitigating future lawsuits, and then only making certain evidence available.

Of course the evidence presented is "compelling." If prosecutors were able to present only the information that they wanted to to make their case and bury all the rest it would be compelling every time. If our justice system worked that way there wouldn't be a single not guilty defendant.

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

That's a good way to earn public respect Vilma, walk out of the hearing you requested. He's coming across as a self entitled whiny knob.

Did you forget what team he started with?

He is a NY Jet still in spirit

 

[Dingleberry]

He had to go make dinner for Fred.















(sorry, I will forever think "Flintstones" when I see his name)

 

[ausbacker]

Did you forget what team he started with?

He is a NY Jet still in spirit

That makes the Danny Woodhead exorcism all the more impressive.

 

[PatsFanSince74]

Vilma walked out because he knew he was toast.

Come on! He played for the Jets. It warped his judgment.

 

[PatsFanSince74]

This is just playing for the audience. I guess the hearings are all over now. 12 members of the media were invited in to view evidence. Per Peter King who was calling for NFL to release more, it is compelling. Bounty on Favre was up to $35K and interim HC Vitt kicked $5K into that pool. Lots of bounty records were kept on Saints computers...

It's been a tough stretch for the NFLPA. Even Doty doesn't seem interested in engaging in their bs whining anymore...

Absolutely!

Vilma's walkout means he knows it's over

Game, Set, Match. Goodell.

Some lawyer sold Vilma that he had a case. NOT!

 

[Reckedtrek]

What a b00b.

 

[Gronkandez]

Should the title say "out on" Bounty-Gate hearing??...instead of "on out"....

 

[Patsfanin Philly]

This is just playing for the audience. I guess the hearings are all over now. 12 members of the media were invited in to view evidence. Per Peter King who was calling for NFL to release more, it is compelling. Bounty on Favre was up to $35K and interim HC Vitt kicked $5K into that pool. Lots of bounty records were kept on Saints computers...
.

Here's what's strange. If the evidence was so compelling, why didn't the NFL release it last Friday when it released only the 200 pages it planned to use when the CBA requires three days prior release to the players of any evidence it plans to use? To release it to a selected few reporters smacks of trying the case in the court of public relations.....

 

[Simple Jack's Brother]

Vilma is such a turddddddd

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Here's what's strange. If the evidence was so compelling, why didn't the NFL release it last Friday when it released only the 200 pages it planned to use when the CBA requires three days prior release to the players of any evidence it plans to use? To release it to a selected few reporters smacks of trying the case in the court of public relations.....

The NFL didn't show the evidence to the media until the hearings were over. Showed them the same damned evidence the NFLPA has been labeling specious (doesn't every defense lawyer claim that...) just on principle. They are never going to say oh, wait, now we see...you got us. The league has a right to spin public opinion in it's own defense when that is all the NFLPA and the players have been doing for months. Their arguments have failed at every turn, beyond creating sympathy or intermittent uncertainty within the media, including in front of 2 independent arbitrators they agreed to. Even Doty doesn't seem inclined to wade back into the fray because frankly it's all lame bs.

This is about Goodell retaining the power to discipline these clowns without having to watch them bamboozle some arbitrator or judge who thinks he's in court or worse yet some gullible jury...And thank god he did. The players had their chance to change the process. Didn't happen because their leadership remains enamored with % points. They should be lambasting their NFLPA leadership, the clowns they just re-elected. Same ones who set them up with a rookie wage scale and a flat cap for the next 5 years...

The players are getting exactly what they deserve because it's what they collectively bargained for.

 

[Deus Irae]

...The players are getting exactly what they deserve because it's what they collectively bargained for.

Absolutely...

The players could have beaten the owners had they just taken it all seriously once the owners opted out of the previous deal. Instead, they ignored what was coming, voted in a clown to lead them, and got slaughtered.

 

[peterforpats]

I don't know about the rest of them, but the narrative that's been proposed in regards to Scott Fujita runs totally contrary to everything I've ever seen of him and his character inside and outside of the NFL. I am very skeptical that the NFL has a strong case against him.

They may not be entitled to "due process" in regards to the CBA but that doesn't make it right; we have due process in our legal system for a reason. Without it you have ht potential for one guy like Goodell to hold a kangaroo court solely for the purposes of mitigating future lawsuits, and then only making certain evidence available.

Of course the evidence presented is "compelling." If prosecutors were able to present only the information that they wanted to to make their case and bury all the rest it would be compelling every time. If our justice system worked that way there wouldn't be a single not guilty defendant.

this isn't a court of law- it is a business making decisions according to legal contracts signed by both parties. the union and the saints don't have a leg to stand on- all their posturing is for public relations.everyone seems to forget sean payton and gregg williams probably gave the commish enough evidence so they could be re-instated. as commish, roger has the right and obligation to clean up this mess.vilma has sued has he not? he should shut up and prepare his case, when heloses that he can move on to his next career. win or lose, he won't get his year out of football back.

 

[ausbacker]

The NFL didn't show the evidence to the media until the hearings were over. Showed them the same damned evidence the NFLPA has been labeling specious (doesn't every defense lawyer claim that...) just on principle. They are never going to say oh, wait, now we see...you got us. The league has a right to spin public opinion in it's own defense when that is all the NFLPA and the players have been doing for months. Their arguments have failed at every turn, beyond creating sympathy or intermittent uncertainty within the media, including in front of 2 independent arbitrators they agreed to. Even Doty doesn't seem inclined to wade back into the fray because frankly it's all lame bs.

This is about Goodell retaining the power to discipline these clowns without having to watch them bamboozle some arbitrator or judge who thinks he's in court or worse yet some gullible jury...And thank god he did. The players had their chance to change the process. Didn't happen because their leadership remains enamored with % points. They should be lambasting their NFLPA leadership, the clowns they just re-elected. Same ones who set them up with a rookie wage scale and a flat cap for the next 5 years...

The players are getting exactly what they deserve because it's what they collectively bargained for.

Absolutely...

The players could have beaten the owners had they just taken it all seriously once the owners opted out of the previous deal. Instead, they ignored what was coming, voted in a clown to lead them, and got slaughtered.

I was going to make this comment but you put it so eloquently that I'll simply agree with your position Deus.

 

[TyronePoole]

this isn't a court of law- it is a business making decisions according to legal contracts signed by both parties. the union and the saints don't have a leg to stand on- all their posturing is for public relations.everyone seems to forget sean payton and gregg williams probably gave the commish enough evidence so they could be re-instated. as commish, roger has the right and obligation to clean up this mess.vilma has sued has he not? he should shut up and prepare his case, when heloses that he can move on to his next career. win or lose, he won't get his year out of football back.

So why do you think we have due process enshrined in the constitution then?

Basically you and everyone else who rants constantly about Goodell being power mad are now saying that Goodell's accusations are automatically believable only because those who he accuses have zero legal recourse. Pretty bizarre logic.

1. Whether the players were stupid/naive/ignorant in not collectively bargaining for better disciplinary protections.

2. Whether the players now are guilty/should be suspended/deserve to have their names smeared without being able to mount a defense.

Two totally different questions.

The reasons for due process don't change simply because the forum does. And there's a whole host of different reasons why analogizing regular businesses and contracts to the NFL is faulty (monopoly), not the least of which is the hypocrisy of "fans" who spent the entire lockout lambasting players and giving the owners a pass only to turn around now and criticize the players for not having dug in their heels hard enough.

 

[Deus Irae]

So why do you think we have due process enshrined in the constitution then?

Basically you and everyone else who rants constantly about Goodell being power mad are now saying that Goodell's accusations are automatically believable only because those who he accuses have zero legal recourse. Pretty bizarre logic.

Let's not make this a civics course. This is two private parties who've legitimately and contractually agreed to a method of discipline, so let's leave it at that. Some of us were posting about the discipline issues long ago, and we watched as the players ignored it because they were too busy getting suckered in by their leadership to actually think for themselves or read the documents they were agreeing to.

 

[TyronePoole]

Let's not make this a civics course. This is two private parties who've legitimately and contractually agreed to a method of discipline, so let's leave it at that. Some of us were posting about the discipline issues long ago, and we watched as the players ignored it because they were too busy getting suckered in by their leadership to actually think for themselves or read the documents they were agreeing to.

You can run with that narrative if you want, but it's not the least bit accurate. The players were facing an avalanche of criticism from fans and their leverage was eroding quickly by the end of the lockout. The collective groan from fans once the issue of player discipline was broached was palpable. Headlines warning that "Goodell won't budge on Player discipline," and the prospect of a long protracted fight against his "appeals process" would have eroded the players position drastically.

It simply wasn't in the cards because most "fans" of the NFL are inclined to take the side of those in power, which is the way support trended consistently the longer the holdout continued. The De Smith scapegoating started almost right away, and now it's the copout du jour when in actuality the guy did a damn good job considering the climate he had to work with.

And it's not a "civics lesson." To reduce it to "two private parties who've legitimately and contractually agreed to a method of discipline" ignores the reality of it on almost every level. And it still makes no sense whatsoever to adjudicate this case in favor of Goodell as an ignorant third party (which is what we, the pubic are) simply because of the fact that he has the sole power to punish.