As Usual, 31 GM's Are Ignorant & Stupid

[mgteich]

Dennard is sure #3 CB possibly, or a #2 I'm told.

Why exactly did 31 GM's think that Dennard wasn't worth a 6th or 7th round draft choice? Does no one else need corners enough to spend a 6th or 7th on a 1st or 2nd round talent? Does no other team need depth at cornerback?
========================================
Maybe Dennard will fight with Dowling and Arlington for reps. Surely Dennard will be our #3 by midseson.

Maybe Dennard with fight with Moore for a roster spot as our first backup off the bench (the #4 CB).

Maybe Dennard with fight with Allen and Coles for the last defensive defensive back roster spot or spots.

Surely 3 or 4 other teams will want our 7th round draft choice if we try to put Dennard on the Practice Squad! After all, training with the patriots will lift him from a player they didn't want to develop in camp to a player they would now want on their 53 man roster. How does this make any sense? Every year there are 6th, 7th and UDFA's that folks think that some team will want on their 53, apparently just because he spent time on the Patriot roster. Sometimes players are wanted on other teams. More often, they are not.

BTW, when was the last time a 7th rounder didn't make it to the Practice Squad?
================================

BOTTOM LINE

I'm glad to have Dennard. He was a fine choice in the 7th round. Dennard may or may not be a reasonable choice for a roster spot.

HOWEVER, if he were anywhere as good as so many here think, some team would have taken a shot on him in the 5th or 6th or 7th. Or perhaps all the GM's are ignorant and stupid.

Obviously, I hope that Belichick's LONG SHOT pays off; it happens. I think of all choices from the 5th through the 7th as being longshots to make the roster, with 7th rounders being the least likely. I applaud Belichick's use of late picks. Cannon was in a somewhat similar position draftwise last year, but he was a 5th rounder and was known to have a medical condition.

And yes, I would think more of Dennard's chances of contributing in 2012 if Belichick thought he were worth a 6th or a 5th. He will definitely get his opportunity to fight for a roster spot. Personally, I think that Coles and Allen may be more useful on the 2012 team. If folks want to look to 2013 and 2014, that's OK. I'm fine with using a roster spot for a developmental corner.

 

[patchick]

Just trying to make sense of your post...is everything above the "Bottom Line" supposed to be your collection of what you've heard others say here?

BTW, Thomas Welch was a recent 7th-round pick claimed on waivers, and Ted Larsen was a 6th.

 

[DarrylS]

Thought it was more about the other 31 not wanting to take a risk or not doing their homework on a guy with a pending charge...

A lot of teams cannot take risks like this, we can.

 

[Ring 6]

Dennard is sure #3 CB possibly, or a #2 I'm told.

Why exactly did 31 GM's think that Dennard wasn't worth a 6th or 7th round draft choice? Does no one else need corners enough to spend a 6th or 7th on a 1st or 2nd round talent? Does no other team need depth at cornerback?
========================================
Maybe Dennard will fight with Dowling and Arlington for reps. Surely Dennard will be our #3 by midseson.

Maybe Dennard with fight with Moore for a roster spot as our first backup off the bench (the #4 CB).

Maybe Dennard with fight with Allen and Coles for the last defensive defensive back roster spot or spots.

Surely 3 or 4 other teams will want our 7th round draft choice if we try to put Dennard on the Practice Squad! After all, training with the patriots will lift him from a player they didn't want to develop in camp to a player they would now want on their 53 man roster. How does this make any sense? Every year there are 6th, 7th and UDFA's that folks think that some team will want on their 53, apparently just because he spent time on the Patriot roster. Sometimes players are wanted on other teams. More often, they are not.

BTW, when was the last time a 7th rounder didn't make it to the Practice Squad?
================================

BOTTOM LINE

I'm glad to have Dennard. He was a fine choice in the 7th round. Dennard may or may not be a reasonable choice for a roster spot.

HOWEVER, if he were anywhere as good as so many here think, some team would have taken a shot on him in the 5th or 6th or 7th. Or perhaps all the GM's are ignorant and stupid.

Obviously, I hope that Belichick's LONG SHOT pays off; it happens. I think of all choices from the 5th through the 7th as being longshots to make the roster, with 7th rounders being the least likely. I applaud Belichick's use of late picks. Cannon was in a somewhat similar position draftwise last year, but he was a 5th rounder and was known to have a medical condition.

And yes, I would think more of Dennard's chances of contributing in 2012 if Belichick thought he were worth a 6th or a 5th. He will definitely get his opportunity to fight for a roster spot. Personally, I think that Coles and Allen may be more useful on the 2012 team. If folks want to look to 2013 and 2014, that's OK. I'm fine with using a roster spot for a developmental corner.

I agree with the tenor of your post, however, I don't agree that it would be a surprise for him to beat out Moore. Based on the general logic, Moore was totally overlooked in the entire draft,then had a season last year that pretty much confirmed why.

 

[Ring 6]

Just trying to make sense of your post...is everything above the "Bottom Line" supposed to be your collection of what you've heard others say here?

BTW, Thomas Welch was a recent 7th-round pick claimed on waivers, and Ted Larsen was a 6th.

I could be wrong but I think Welch cleared waivers and was signed to a different teams practice sqaud.

 

[brdmaverick]

I guess I'm not up to speed on the Dennard hype, but I do see where the original poster is coming from. Every year we believe that our cuts (our scraps) will be someone else's treasure. Oddly enough it rarely works out that way. Just think Taylor Price last year (even after a great preseason).

Anyways, it would be nice if Dennard pans out, but as a 7th round pick there really is no pressure for him to work out (at least not from us fans).

As for Sterling Moore, I thought he progressed nicely as the season went on last year.

 

[patchick]

I could be wrong but I think Welch cleared waivers and was signed to a different teams practice sqaud.

Ah, you may be right, thanks.

In this case, I think we have to throw out the usual 7th-rounder experience. If Dennard's draft fall was even 50% about character concerns, then making it through camp with the Patriots should mollify a lot of teams enough for a cheap waiver claim.

 

[Ring 6]

Ah, you may be right, thanks.

In this case, I think we have to throw out the usual 7th-rounder experience. If Dennard's draft fall was even 50% about character concerns, then making it through camp with the Patriots should mollify a lot of teams enough for a cheap waiver claim.

I've never much cared abuot whether a guy not good enough to stick makes it to someone elses practice squad.
The day you sign your practice squad contract your chance of ever being more than a JAG is probably 1 in 1000 or worse.

 

[Deus Irae]

Dennard is sure #3 CB possibly, or a #2 I'm told.

Why exactly did 31 GM's think that Dennard wasn't worth a 6th or 7th round draft choice? Does no one else need corners enough to spend a 6th or 7th on a 1st or 2nd round talent? Does no other team need depth at cornerback?
========================================
Maybe Dennard will fight with Dowling and Arlington for reps. Surely Dennard will be our #3 by midseson.

Maybe Dennard with fight with Moore for a roster spot as our first backup off the bench (the #4 CB).

Maybe Dennard with fight with Allen and Coles for the last defensive defensive back roster spot or spots.

Surely 3 or 4 other teams will want our 7th round draft choice if we try to put Dennard on the Practice Squad! After all, training with the patriots will lift him from a player they didn't want to develop in camp to a player they would now want on their 53 man roster. How does this make any sense? Every year there are 6th, 7th and UDFA's that folks think that some team will want on their 53, apparently just because he spent time on the Patriot roster. Sometimes players are wanted on other teams. More often, they are not.

BTW, when was the last time a 7th rounder didn't make it to the Practice Squad?
================================

BOTTOM LINE

I'm glad to have Dennard. He was a fine choice in the 7th round. Dennard may or may not be a reasonable choice for a roster spot.

HOWEVER, if he were anywhere as good as so many here think, some team would have taken a shot on him in the 5th or 6th or 7th. Or perhaps all the GM's are ignorant and stupid.

Obviously, I hope that Belichick's LONG SHOT pays off; it happens. I think of all choices from the 5th through the 7th as being longshots to make the roster, with 7th rounders being the least likely. I applaud Belichick's use of late picks. Cannon was in a somewhat similar position draftwise last year, but he was a 5th rounder and was known to have a medical condition.

And yes, I would think more of Dennard's chances of contributing in 2012 if Belichick thought he were worth a 6th or a 5th. He will definitely get his opportunity to fight for a roster spot. Personally, I think that Coles and Allen may be more useful on the 2012 team. If folks want to look to 2013 and 2014, that's OK. I'm fine with using a roster spot for a developmental corner.

One could insert "Tom Brady" and bump up the round numbers by one where appropriate, and still have the same O.P.. Other examples could be used, as well, but Brady would have the most cache.

One could note that part of the reason given for Dennard's steep drop was his arrest for striking a cop.

Or, one could just note that teams miss on players all the time, and that other teams become the beneficiary of those misses, down to the 6th round, the 7th round, and even on down to the UDFAs.


It seems to me that any of those examples would serve to refute the O.P..

 

[mgteich]

Fair emough.

1) I somewhat disagree with your evaluation of Moore. Obviously, he isn't a competitor for a roster spot at safety. However, I do think that he did reasonably well at corner, given that he no camp.

2) If Moore isn't up to being the #1 backup CB (first off the bench), then I would expect that this spot would be filled by Allen or Coles or even a FA yet to be signed.

3) I agree that if Moore is not good enough to be the #4 CB, then Dennard might beat him out for a roster spot. However, I would consider the winner of this competition to be the #5 CB. This is no biggie; it's still a roster spot.

I agree with the tenor of your post, however, I don't agree that it would be a surprise for him to beat out Moore. Based on the general logic, Moore was totally overlooked in the entire draft,then had a season last year that pretty much confirmed why.

 

[mgteich]

Yes.............

Just trying to make sense of your post...is everything above the "Bottom Line" supposed to be your collection of what you've heard others say here? BTW, Thomas Welch was a recent 7th-round pick claimed on waivers, and Ted Larsen was a 6th.

 

[patchick]

IEvery year we believe that our cuts (our scraps) will be someone else's treasure. Oddly enough it rarely works out that way.

But tons of Patriots castoffs DO get claimed by other teams. Last year alone Darius Butler, Lee Smith, Steve Maneri and Will Yeatman were among the waiver claims, and plenty of vested veterans like Meriweather, Sanders and Wilhite signed on with other teams right away.

Now, if you're saying they don't end up amounting to much in their new homes, that's another story. (Though a bunch of those guys like Butler, Wilhite and Sanders did significant roles for their new teams last year.)

 

[Ring 6]

Fair emough.

1) I somewhat disagree with your evaluation of Moore. Obviously, he isn't a competitor for a roster spot at safety. However, I do think that he did reasonably well at corner, given that he no camp.

2) If Moore isn't up to being the #1 backup CB (first off the bench), then I would expect that this spot would be filled by Allen or Coles or even a FA yet to be signed.

3) I agree that if Moore is not good enough to be the #4 CB, then Dennard might beat him out for a roster spot. However, I would consider the winner of this competition to be the #5 CB. This is no biggie; it's still a roster spot.

We disagree. I thought he was bad enough to not make the Raiders, get cut off their practice squad, get cut by the Patriots and make it on the field as a nickel/dime because the guy he was competing against for playing time is a WR. Thats not a resounding endorsement.
I thought he was beaten often, was a mess vs a double move, and wouldn't even be considered a roster possiblility by anyone if Lee Evans didn't let him slap the ball away after he beat him like a rented mule.
99% of the WRs in the NFL catching that ball makesSterling Moore's inability to cover a guy in a 15 yard area with the sideline helping him as the last play of a Patriot season that ended with a home playoff loss.
Somehow Lee Evans stupidity made Moore get a lot better in fans eyes than he played.

 

[mgteich]

Do we need to be constantly reminded just how much we needed secondary help last year, and how often we needed to count on Sters and street free agents?

(Though a bunch of those guys like Butler, Wilhite and Sanders did significant roles for their new teams last year.)

 

[Rob0729]

The weird thing I don't get about Dennard is before the Senior Bowl he was pegged as a first or second round pick. Then he struggled in a few practices during Senior Bowl week and injured himself which forced him to drop out of the Senior Bowl and that injury (a hip flexor) probably made him have a poor Combine and then his stock dropped like a stone. In a matter of a few weeks he went from being a blue chip prospect to a guy who they questioned could make it in the NFL because of a couple of bad practices and a bad workout session at the Combine. Obviously, his arrest made him drop like a stone, but he already had dropped to a mid-round prospect by then.

I am no college football expert or draftnick, but I always think it is funny how scouts and experts can ignore a players' entire college career and put so much emphasis on one game (granted it is against some of the best players in the country at the college level) and the Combine. Many times it is the other way around and they pump up a guy who wasn't all that good in college and explodes at the Senior Bowl or Combine (the Jets like to draft those guys like Gholston and Couples). It just doesn't make sense.

You look at Dennard's career up until Senior Bowl week and you would have said the Pats made a good choice on him if they drafted him in the first round. Now some people think he was a wasted pick in the seventh (granted if he goes to jail, he will be).

 

[ctpatsfan77]

I've never much cared abuot whether a guy not good enough to stick makes it to someone elses practice squad.
The day you sign your practice squad contract your chance of ever being more than a JAG is probably 1 in 1000 or worse.

A waiver claim puts a rookie on a team's active roster. To try to "sneak" the player onto the practice squad requires exposing him to waivers again. [That's why I think Nick Saban pulled a dirtbag move when he claimed Kyle Eckel off waivers and then placed him on military reserve.]

 

[patfanken]

Dennard IS an interesting and perplexing prospect. Are we getting a top one of the best DB prospects to come out of the Big Ten/Big 12, or are we getting a short, bottom heavy prospect w ith marginal speed and quickness who crapped out at the combine and Senior Bowl.

In the end, Robo got it right. Dennard went from a top 50 pick, to the middle rounds after a closer inspection of his talent, to a legit end of the draft player after his encounter with the law.

He's just another example of the difference between what the professional and amateur draftniks think and what the teams who are paying millions each year to scout these players think. Its why a guy like who was highly thought of by the draftniks like Iloki can slide to the 5th round, and a guy like Bruce Irvin can rise to the mid first round

I suspect that in the end the talent gap between 50 and 250 is smaller than we think. So much depends on his luck at winding up with a team that fits his skill set, and his ability to grow as player. The guy who gets picked low and gets better each year is going to outperform and outlast the "better" player who just never gets better.

I think the best player that exemplifies that is Brandon Merriweather. Based on his raw talent he was picked at the right spot, and he rose to the level of that talent over his first 3 years and did a credible job, because of that talent. BUT he never grew beyond it as a professional. His head never matched his athletic talent and so he kept making the same mistakes over and over. Now 2 teams later he's getting a 3rd shot, but if he doesn't radically change his head, the results will be the same....a few great highlight plays packed amid plays that get coaches fired.

 

[Peachhead]

Whoa, pump the brakes.

How about we actually see how he is in game conditions for a few games (or maybe a year or two) before we start patting each other on the back, OK?

 

[DocHoliday]

^Indeed.

Moore saved our Postseason.

What has Dennard done, except for be an idiot and punching a cop?

Moore was used as a safety and came off the street. He did very well for his situation, and Minicamp reports all say he's got very good ball skills.

Essentially they're both wait and see, but we've seen more good from Moore than Dennard.

 

[Nehalem]

We disagree. I thought he was bad enough to not make the Raiders, get cut off their practice squad, get cut by the Patriots and make it on the field as a nickel/dime because the guy he was competing against for playing time is a WR. Thats not a resounding endorsement.
I thought he was beaten often, was a mess vs a double move, and wouldn't even be considered a roster possiblility by anyone if Lee Evans didn't let him slap the ball away after he beat him like a rented mule.
99% of the WRs in the NFL catching that ball makesSterling Moore's inability to cover a guy in a 15 yard area with the sideline helping him as the last play of a Patriot season that ended with a home playoff loss.
Somehow Lee Evans stupidity made Moore get a lot better in fans eyes than he played.

His 2 interceptions, including one returned for a TD, against Buffalo probably helped as well.